Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[evolved2]

So Christians can be essentially Agnostics with hope?

A lot of Christians are agnostics. All believers are agnostic, as opposed to those who claim to know that god is real: they're a Noah! (sorry for the bad joke).

 

[Vdubs]

It amazes me that you're still using that failed argument after witnessing it being thoroughly refuted on a regular basis over several years of posting here.

You can't disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible dragon that lives in my garage either. Are they valid beliefs just because you can't disprove them?

As a scientist, you should be aware of hypothesis testing. There's ZERO objective evidence for 'God' and Christianity. You have an irrational belief in a specific brand of deity, which isn't a problem other than the fact you refuse to recognise it as such.

You got it- FAITH. I BELIEVE. That's what separates Christians from wonderers

 

[Vdubs]

A lot of Christians are agnostics. All believers are agnostic, as opposed to those who claim to know that god is real: they're a Noah! (sorry for the bad joke).

Your visits to this site have a direct relationship to your state of mind about Essendon?

 

[Vdubs]

Dianetics is Dianetics.
The Torah is the Torah.
The Quran is the Quran.
The Tripitaka is the Tripitaka.
The Guru Granth Sahib is the Guru Granth Sahib.
The Vedas is the Vedas.
The Book of Mormon is the Book of Mormon.

Why is your book any more real than those books?

Up to you to you find out.

 

[Total Power]

You got it- FAITH. I BELIEVE. That's what separates religious believers from fact finders

Edited for truth.

 

[Vdubs]

Edited for truth.

Palm Sunday is the day that we remember Jesus’ triumphant entrance into Jerusalem, where He was welcomed like a king.

It’s also the first day of Holy Week—the week of events leading up to Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice.

Today, Holy Week is a powerful reminder that God’s work is not done. Hope is coming.

From Palm Sunday to Resurrection Sunday, Holy Week shows us God’s plan to redeem the world. This is what we believers see as TRUTH

 

[evolved2]

You got it- FAITH. I BELIEVE. That's what separates Christians from wonderers

Illogical reasoning, belief in opposition to facts and science, and refusing to be educated on a topic = faith. You wouldn't see it as a virtue if one of your own relatives continuously gave money to a 'Nigerian Prince' because they had faith.

The type of faith we're discussing is NEVER a virtue. Religious people generally recognise that as universally true with one exception.

 

[evolved2]

Your visits to this site have a direct relationship to your state of mind about Essendon?

I'm always pessimistic about Essendon. It wasn't that way 20 years ago.

 

[Vdubs]

Illogical reasoning, belief in opposition to facts and science, and refusing to be educated on a topic = faith. You wouldn't see it as a virtue if one of your own relatives continuously gave money to a 'Nigerian Prince' because they had faith.

The type of faith we're discussing is NEVER a virtue. Religious people generally recognise that as universally true with one exception.

We have endured much "education" on this topic in this thread. Are you non believers here to "rescue" us, or trying to work out if we are for real?

 

[evolved2]

We have endured much "education" on this topic in this thread. Are you non believers here to "rescue" us, or trying to work out if we are for real?

I'm just here because I like to argue.

I couldn't care less about rescuing you and I'm sure you're for real.

 

[Malifice]

Up to you to you find out.

There is nothing to find out.

Just like your Bible, they're works of fiction.

I mean there have been (and likely currently are) literally tens of thousands of different religions.

You've stated before your belief that all of those other thousands of religions, prophets and holy books are false (and their billions of believers are suckers), yet your religion, holy book and prophet is real.

You're literally sitting there:

1) Acknowledging a phenomenon exists (that literally billions of humans earnestly follow fake prophets and made-up books, and that humans are easily sucked in by utter nonsense as long as you call it a religion), and also

2) Exhibiting the exact same phenomenon yourself, yet blissfully unaware of it notwithstanding your belief in 1 above.

Stop for a second and think about it logically; which is more likely true?

1) You're all wrong, and victims of the human psyche needing to believe in literally anything no matter how outrageously fanciful in order to make sense of existence?

2) One of those tens of thousands of prophets and holy books, is actually correct (the one you have personally selected)?

 

[Vdubs]

There is nothing to find out.

Just like your Bible, they're works of fiction.

I mean there have been (and likely currently are) literally tens of thousands of different religions.

You've stated before your belief that all of those other thousands of religions, prophets and holy books are false (and their billions of believers are suckers), yet your religion, holy book and prophet is real.

You're literally sitting there:

1) Acknowledging a phenomenon exists (that literally billions of humans earnestly follow fake prophets and made-up books, and that humans are easily sucked in by utter nonsense as long as you call it a religion), and also

2) Exhibiting the exact same phenomenon yourself, yet blissfully unaware of it notwithstanding your belief in 1 above.

Stop for a second and think about it logically; which is more likely true?

1) You're all wrong, and victims of the human psyche needing to believe in literally anything no matter how outrageously fanciful in order to make sense of existence?

2) One of those tens of thousands of prophets and holy books, is actually correct (the one you have personally selected)?

Believe what you like.
The invitation to know and accept Jesus is there for all; no coercion.
You have made your decision based on what you believe makes sense.
What we believers hold to be truth has no impact on you et al.

The Bible gives some specific historical events that have been confirmed by archaeology. While the Quran does not list any historical events in it it. While the Bible gives the names of specific historical characters and events that can be and have been confirmed, the Quran does not do this.

Almost all the persons named in the Quran are the same as in the Bible, with the exception of Muhammed himself. And all these Biblical characters the Quran names existence is disputed by some scholars, Moses, Noah, Adam, even David and Solomon. The indisputably historical characters the Bible does name, Nebuchadnezzar, Pontius Pilate, are not named in the Quran. None of the people named in the Quran are regarded as undisputably historical; even Muhammad's historical existence is disputed by a small number. In contrast, the Bible gives the name of a number of people whose existence no one doubts. Tiberius, Cyrus, Pharaoh Necho.

The Quran does not give enough details on any event it describes to determine its historicity. The Quran tells us mere that Jesus seemed to have been crucified, but gives us no clue of when and where this supposed crucifixion took place. The Bible in comparison, tells us when Jesus died (around Passover when Pontius Pilate was governor) and where (outside of Jerusalem).

We would have no idea of when Jesus or Muhammad lived based on the Quran alone. For all we know from the Quran, Jesus and Muhammad could have been near contemporaries instead of 600 years apart. Any estimate of when King David and King Solomon lived based on the Quran would be hopeless, there just is not enough information given. Historical details such as a denarius being a day's wages, and that coins had the emperor's image in them which we can find in the Bible are absent in the Quran. What details the Quran does have is wrong, such as King David having mail armor; mail would not be invented until several centuries after King David by the Celts in far off Europe.

 

[Total Power]

​

Palm Sunday is the day that we remember Jesus’ triumphant entrance into Jerusalem, where He was welcomed like a king.

It’s also the first day of Holy Week—the week of events leading up to Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice.

Today, Holy Week is a powerful reminder that God’s work is not done. Hope is coming.

From Palm Sunday to Resurrection Sunday, Holy Week shows us God’s plan to redeem the world. This is what we believers see as TRUTH

Yeah yeah he's coming. So they are saying for 2,000 years. In another 2,000 years on bigfooty, they will be saying the same thing.

Read your Bible, it's a failed prophecy.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

You should receive a gold medal in deflection. You still don't realise what you quoted is basically what ToE says do you? just see the diagram below what you quoted.

As the saying goes, your inability to not grasp science is not an argument against it. It's for everyone to see what a ***** you are. I am not insulting you, but you basically shown up as a mental midget here. Stick to scriptures, you deserve it.

Just 2 paras below:

What has been discovered about evolution since Darwin?​

A lot! Since Darwin died in 1882, findings from many fields have confirmed and greatly expanded on his ideas. We’ve learned that Earth is old enough for all known species to have evolved. We’ve discovered DNA, which confirms that all organisms are related to one another. And we’ve uncovered millions of fossils that provide evidence of how one life form evolved into another over time.




No one needs to defeat you in a debate. You alone are good enough to beat yourself.

Atleast find a YEC website or Ken Ham to support your argument.

LOL!

You, YEC or Ken Ham can’t make the connection where this disproves the bible. Even if the missing ancestor is found; it still wouldn’t.

Christians have all sorts of interpretations of the bible and you are stuck on what you believe I should be thinking, as a Christian. It is rich, because you ain’t one.

 

[Total Power]

You, YEC or Ken Ham can’t make the connection where this disproves the bible. Even if the missing ancestor is found; it still wouldn’t.

Christians have all sorts of interpretations of the bible and you are stuck on what you believe I should be thinking, as a Christian. It is rich, because you ain’t one.

I showed you an example on why you should STFU on certain subjects you CLAIM you know unless you wanna make yourself look more stupid than you did in the last page. You are a charlatan, you still don't realise you actually argued in favour of evolution than against it, do you? this is why i am not a member of your cult, i can think for myself. I do not have to disprove the Bible, you do a good job yourself.

Arguing with someone who a 5 minute google knowledge is a waste of time. Hence i said, your opinion means nothing in matters of science and also Ehrman. I just caught you in the last page, you are in no position to tell anyone anything.

What you personally believe is your own choice, i honestly do not care, but you do a good job demonstrating why you lot are dumb Canutes. No insult intended, but i am no longer wasting my time with charlatans and i am not interested in anything you have to say anymore.

 

[Total Power]

Believe what you like.
The invitation to know and accept Jesus is there for all; no coercion.
You have made your decision based on what you believe makes sense.
What we believers hold to be truth has no impact on you et al.

The Bible gives some specific historical events that have been confirmed by archaeology. While the Quran does not list any historical events in it it. While the Bible gives the names of specific historical characters and events that can be and have been confirmed, the Quran does not do this.

Almost all the persons named in the Quran are the same as in the Bible, with the exception of Muhammed himself. And all these Biblical characters the Quran names existence is disputed by some scholars, Moses, Noah, Adam, even David and Solomon. The indisputably historical characters the Bible does name, Nebuchadnezzar, Pontius Pilate, are not named in the Quran. None of the people named in the Quran are regarded as undisputably historical; even Muhammad's historical existence is disputed by a small number. In contrast, the Bible gives the name of a number of people whose existence no one doubts. Tiberius, Cyrus, Pharaoh Necho.

The Quran does not give enough details on any event it describes to determine its historicity. The Quran tells us mere that Jesus seemed to have been crucified, but gives us no clue of when and where this supposed crucifixion took place. The Bible in comparison, tells us when Jesus died (around Passover when Pontius Pilate was governor) and where (outside of Jerusalem).

We would have no idea of when Jesus or Muhammad lived based on the Quran alone. For all we know from the Quran, Jesus and Muhammad could have been near contemporaries instead of 600 years apart. Any estimate of when King David and King Solomon lived based on the Quran would be hopeless, there just is not enough information given. Historical details such as a denarius being a day's wages, and that coins had the emperor's image in them which we can find in the Bible are absent in the Quran. What details the Quran does have is wrong, such as King David having mail armor; mail would not be invented until several centuries after King David by the Celts in far off Europe.

Any of you Christians know anything outside of parroting your own book and copy pasting something you have NFI about? First Rossy now you.

Islam categorically denies Jesus was crucified.

An-Nisa's verse 157

and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Do not please talk about things you found elsewhere but haven't read. There's so much wrong with you just said, i can rip it apart but i do not have the time.

 

[Total Power]

 

[evolved2]

You, YEC or Ken Ham can’t make the connection where this disproves the bible. Even if the missing ancestor is found; it still wouldn’t.

Christians have all sorts of interpretations of the bible and you are stuck on what you believe I should be thinking, as a Christian. It is rich, because you ain’t one.

Do you know that god is real, that your holy book is truth, and that faith is one of the primary methods for determining truth?

Followers of the Christian god and other gods hold to those 'truths'. It must be difficult to be openminded to other possibilities when one knows the truth and wants to believe it.

 

[Total Power]

Do you know that god is real, that your holy book is truth, and that faith is one of the primary methods for determining truth?

Followers of the Christian god and other gods hold to those 'truths'. It must be difficult to be openminded to other possibilities when one knows the truth and wants to believe it.

Yep if they are wrong, then it's just the interpretation. They can never lose. But the miracles of every other religion than what they believe in, must be fake. I mean science, archeology, history, geography, biology mean nothing. Bible cannot be proven false because 'i said so'. Yeah very rational lot, trying to deny evolution (without even knowing what it is) but a talking snake did it for them.

 

[Malifice]

The Bible gives some specific historical events that have been confirmed by archaeology. While the Quran does not list any historical events in it it.

What?

The Quran clearly lists historical events.

It largely details the life of Mohammed, who was a real person.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Do you know that god is real, that your holy book is truth, and that faith is one of the primary methods for determining truth?

Followers of the Christian god and other gods hold to those 'truths'. It must be difficult to be openminded to other possibilities when one knows the truth and wants to believe it.

There are bible passages where you can test the spirit; I have and am saying that it’s true. It’s perfect and majestic. It is available to anyone wanting to investigate it.

Never said that others faiths are not true. I am not bigoted; people can do and believe what they want.

 

[evolved2]

There are bible passages where you can test the spirit; I have and am saying that it’s true. It’s perfect and majestic. It is available to anyone wanting to investigate it.

Never said that others faiths are not true. I am not bigoted; people can do and believe what they want.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that you're a bigot. How can two religions that say very different things about Jesus, like Islam and Christianity, both be true?

 

[Malifice]

There are bible passages where you can test the spirit; I have and am saying that it’s true. It’s perfect and majestic. It is available to anyone wanting to investigate it.

Never said that others faiths are not true.

So Christians go to Christain heaven (or Hell), Norse Pagans go to Valhalla, and Buddhists get reincarnated? Eyeryone just gets what they believe to be true when they die?

Do Ganesha, Thor, Odin, Yahwe, Xenu, Zeuss, Jesus, Apollo, Ra, Thoth Amon, Abbadon etc all just hang together in the same place?

How does that work?

 

[Rosscoe 17]

I wasn't trying to insinuate that you're a bigot. How can two religions that say very different things about Jesus, like Islam and Christianity, both be true?

Different witnesses.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

So Christians go to Christain heaven (or Hell), Norse Pagans go to Valhalla, and Buddhists get reincarnated? Eyeryone just gets what they believe to be true when they die?

Do Ganesha, Thor, Odin, Yahwe, Xenu, Zeuss, Jesus, Apollo, Ra, Thoth Amon, Abbadon etc all just hang together in the same place?

How does that work?

To their own master they will stand or fall.