Science/Environment The Carbon Debate, pt III

[Windhover]

Carbon emissions are global. The carbon tax was local. It therefore became an additional burdon to producing anything in Australia.

Um, your argument is a non sequiter anyway but please, as to your first premise, carbon emissions are emitted locally.

 

[Todman]

Figure 1. The least-squares linear-regression trend on the RSS satellite monthly global mean surface temperature anomaly dataset shows no global warming for 18 years 4 months since December 1996.
The hiatus period of 18 years 4 months, or 220 months, is the farthest back one can go in the RSS satellite temperature record and still show a sub-zero trend.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/04/06/el-nio-or-ot-the-pause-lengthens-again/

 

[blured]

I prefer a graph that shows the complete data set.

 

[Todman]

http://joannenova.com.au/2015/04/tw...according-to-84-historic-stations/#more-41832

This larger dataset suggests as much as two thirds of the current official trend in Australian warming was due to post hoc adjustments, not heat recorded by thermometers.
These historic temperatures were calculated by the best scientists of the day, using the best equipment of the era (the same Stevenson Screen we use now). Yet again, global warming appears to have a “man-made” contribution. Far more important than CO2 is man-made “pollution” called homogenisation.

 

[Malifice]

 

[Lebbo73]

You are still using the 97% lie hey Mal?

 

[Malifice]

You are still using the 97% lie hey Mal?

Those brave oil companies.

So brave.

 

[Docker Clint]

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/01/...ail&utm_term=0_715eed3192-a4475d81a1-82523041

It only had to be voted away. That was easy.

 

[madmug]

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/01/...ail&utm_term=0_715eed3192-a4475d81a1-82523041

It only had to be voted away. That was easy.

Its American exceptionalism.

They can vote away climate change but cant fix their own budget & deficit problems

 

[not a warmonger]

Its American exceptionalism.

They can vote away climate change but cant fix their own budget & deficit problems

 

[medusala]

Those brave oil companies.

So brave.

A carbon tax that raises tens of billions

Such bravery by Gillard. Saving the planet.

And some people are gullible enough to have fallen for it.

 

[ydraw]

View attachment 130763

If solar power is feasible, why aren't we all using it right now?

 

[ydraw]

Because of people like you.

I'd quite happily used it if it worked. The problem is that it doesn't.

 

[Forward Press]

Australia PM's adviser: climate change is UN hoax to create new world order

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...un-hoax-to-create-new-world-order?CMP=soc_567

“The real agenda is concentrated political authority,” Newman wrote in an opinion piece published in the Australian newspaper. “Global warming is the hook. It’s about a new world order under the control of the UN..

“It is opposed to capitalism and freedom and has made environmental catastrophism a household topic to achieve its objective.”

Where do you even start with this?

 

[Forward Press]

You don't use solar power... because it doesn't work...

Wut?

In fairness to ydraw, he/she might refer to the known flaws in solar power eg power generation varying depending on levels of sunshine, inefficiencies distributing it etc. For the time being, solar can really only be used to supplement the current electricity network, not be the sole basis of it.

 

[not a warmonger]

If solar power is feasible, why aren't we all using it right now?

If solar power is feasible, why aren't we all using it right now?

If solar power is feasible, why aren't we all using it right now?

storage is the game changer. what is your money on the cost of electricity from fossil fuel going either up or down in coming years???

 

[not a warmonger]

In fairness to ydraw, he/she might refer to the known flaws in solar power eg power generation varying depending on levels of sunshine, inefficiencies distributing it etc. For the time being, solar can really only be used to supplement the current electricity network, not be the sole basis of it.

and here we go. the energy revolution has began.

a wall-mounted energy storage unit that can hold 10 kilowatt hours/& deliver it at 2 kilowatts av.


Quote: "'Coal-lovin' Abbott is caught with his "budgies" down as revolutionary "Powerball" batteries look to tip King Coal off his throne.

Professor John Mathews from Macquarie University reports on this exciting news from Tesla. While wind and solar power have made great strides in recent years, with renewables now accounting for 22 per cent of electric energy generated, the issue that has held them back has been their transience. The sun doesn’t shine at night and the wind doesn’t blow year-round — these are the mantras of all those opposed to the progress of renewables. NOW THE renewable power billionaire, Elon Musk, has just blown away that final defence.

Last Thursday in California he introduced to the world his sleek new PowerWall —a wall-mounted energy storage unit that can hold 10 kilowatt hours of electric energy, and deliver it at an average of 2 kilowatts, all for US$3,500. Elon Musk strikes a decisive blow for renewables with the launch of Tesla Energy's PowerWall, L.A. 30 April 2015 That translates into an electricity price (taking into account installation costs and inverters) of around US$500 per kWh — less than half current costs, as estimated by Deutsche Bank. That translates into delivered energy at around 6 cents per kWh for the householder, meaning that a domestic system plus storage would still come out ahead of coal-fired power delivered through the conventional grid. What’s more, Musk is going to manufacture the batteries in the United States, at the “gigafactory” he is building just over the border from California in Nevada. He is not waiting for some totally new technology, but is scaling up the tried and tested lithium-ion battery that he is already using for his electric vehicles. Not just for homes Now the fossil fuel companies – from fuel suppliers such as coal miners to coal-burning electric power utilities – will be on the defensive, fighting the new normal of cheaper renewable supplies and storage.

Instead of asking “can we have our own energy system?” communities will be asking “why can’t we have it?” The Tesla Energy system launched last week is comprehensive, with global ramifications. The PowerWall system offering 10 kWh is targeted at domestic users. It is complemented by a commercial system termed the Powerpack offering 100 kWh storage, and a stack of 100 such units to form a 10 megawatt hour storage unit that can be used at the scale of small electricity grids. Whole communities could build micro-grid power supply systems around such a 10 MWh energy storage system, fed by renewable energy generation (wind power or rooftop solar power), at costs that just became super-competitive. At his launch last week, Musk maintained that the entire electric power grid of the US could be replicated with just 160 million of these utility-scale energy storage units. And two billion of the utility-scale units could provide storage of 20 trillion kWh — electric power for the world. The revolution begins It is instructive to put these numbers in context. There are already around 2 billion cars and commercial vehicles on the world’s roads, and nearly 100 million new vehicles are being added every year. If it’s feasible to build these exhaust-pumping complex machines, it’s certainly feasible to build the storage units that will help to make them unnecessary.

What’s more, Elon Musk has just announced that he intends to do so. Musk is a Henry Ford-style figure who takes others’ innovations and scales them up, taking the breathtaking entrepreneurial leaps that others can only dream about. Suddenly the world of renewable energy just moved to become the new normal —because when combined with cost-effective storage it becomes unbeatable. Musk will not be alone. Already China is gearing up to be the world’s renewable energy superpower, with the largest installed base of wind power and probably by this year the world’s largest installed base of solar photovoltaic (PV) power, as well as by far the world’s largest manufacturing system for wind turbines and solar photovoltaic cells. There are already Chinese companies such as BYD producing their own energy storage units based on lithium ion technology for both domestic and commercial usage — although not as sleek nor as cheap as the new Tesla offering. But give them time and they will be producing at comparable scale and cost, or bettering it.

This is capitalist competition — and its propagation is what makes Tesla’s announcement the start of the real renewables revolution. No going back What about Australia and the sorry state of affairs in which the Abbott government can see nothing beyond coal exports and does everything it can to halt the transition to renewables? Tesla’s announcement has just shifted the ground beneath their feet. No longer can anyone in Australia claim that renewables would be “nice” if only they came with storage. Now they do. A smart government in Australia would be looking to ride this wave and promote Australian renewable technology as a source of wealth for the country in a post-fossil fuel era. Finally we would be able to move beyond the fruitless debates in Australia over whether to have a carbon tax or not, and move to the more immediate and practical issue of promoting renewable industry and technology. China has given the world a huge lesson in the business-like way it has gone about building and promoting its renewable energy industries, importing technology from around the world and now improving on it as well, and scaling up production so as to drive down costs.

Now Musk and his Tesla Energy have just taken that process one decisive further step, to encompass storage as well as renewable power generation. From here there is no going back. Check RenewEconomy's calculator which allows you to investigate the household economic impact of solar plus batteries at Tesla prices! This article was originally published on The Conversation under the title: 'The Tesla battery heralds the beginning of the end for fossil fuels'. Read the original article." Go to: https://independentaustralia.net/bu...end-of-fossil-fuels,7677#.VU0yTWgJRAs.twitter

 

[medusala]

Link?

Depends which year you take as IIRC Treasury readjusted given the falling EU price.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3804037.htm

GREG HUNT: Well Mr Rudd has now been exposed as a complete fraud - a fraud on the carbon tax and a fraud on the environment. He cuts the environment budget by a billion dollars, but more than that, he is a fraud on the carbon tax for a simple reason - he's changed the name of the carbon tax but he keeps a $58 billion carbon tax against the Government's own projections out to 2020.

 

[not a warmonger]

Depends which year you take as IIRC Treasury readjusted given the falling EU price.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3804037.htm

GREG HUNT: Well Mr Rudd has now been exposed as a complete fraud - a fraud on the carbon tax and a fraud on the environment. He cuts the environment budget by a billion dollars, but more than that, he is a fraud on the carbon tax for a simple reason - he's changed the name of the carbon tax but he keeps a $58 billion carbon tax against the Government's own projections out to 2020.

its good to see your concerns in labours cuts to environmental programs. full of s**t just like the LNP.

 

[medusala]

its good to see your concerns in labours cuts to environmental programs.

A tax is an environmental program?

 

[not a warmonger]

A tax is an environmental program?

cuts to environmental programs. read your link - pleb.

 

[medusala]

cuts to environmental programs. read your link - pleb.

I think I know where Old Kent Road is. How do I get there from Hyde Park Corner?

 

[Power Raid]

Once we find a cheap alternative fuel, they'll find a cheaper way to extract coal from Antarctica, and amend the treaty.

Its funny you should say that because the Australian government has drilled through the ice and tested Antarctica for mineralisation.

 

[Power Raid]

Are you talking just solar or solar and storage?

In terms of solar the current 5kW price in Melbourne is $8,389. That includes a contribution due to the RET of ~$0.70 per Watt so the real price would be $11,889. That will produce about 18kWh of electricity each day so in 5 years that's 32,850 kWh. Current electricity prices vary from about 20-25c/kWh in Victoria so that's between $6570 and $8,212. So you're close to paying off the system in 5 years with the RET and without it'll be more like 8 years. Of course this doesn't take into account opportunity cost of the investment or the possibility that you've made a poor decision to put too big a system on your roof so you have to export electricity to the grid at only 8c/kWh. But it also doesn't take into account the fact that electricity prices are rising much faster than inflation so you're likely to be offsetting significantly more than 20-25c/kWh in later years. It's also a system that lasts for ~25 years (with some other costs like replacing the inverter of course) so you've got a long time after payback to make money. So we're borderline on the 5 years call now but chances are the payback time is only going to decrease over the next few years.

In terms of solar and storage? That's not there yet. I'm not claiming it is. But then solar 5 years ago was miles away. Now it's seriously denting generators' revenue. Even with most of the subsidies removed people are still going solar. With the explosion in electric vehicle sales we're seeing in Europe and the US the price of batteries is only going to get less and less. When the long-term outlook for the cost of rooftop solar production is 10c/kWh or lower and electricity prices are already 20c/kWh or higher, and rising, that's a big gap in which to fit storage. It would be very silly of retailers to dismiss it out of hand.

your assumption of using 100% of power generated would be unusual given solar produces power when household consumption is generally "off peak"

Batteries will fix that

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you look at prices for larger consumers. Solar costs the same without any feed in tariffs, yet high use allows negotiation of a cheaper rate for purchasing electricity. Economic payback does not exist and business managers are not able to justify the option of using Solar panels.