Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

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mikeythemoocow

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this is the Hun article that I read about it


main part says


Hawthorn’s Shaun Burgoyne has just signed a one-year deal that will see him transition into working on indigenous programs for the Hawks in a long-term role.

The AFL has just taken Carlton’s next generation academy into the league’s own control again, which puts some of the Blues’ specific indigenous programs for the NGA program up in the air.
 
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Coops93

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Coops93

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How many floggings have we copped this year, how many games have we never been in the game.

If people can't see any improvement then god help us.
People saying it bewilders me. Just look at our %. 7 wins in a 6 game reduced season gives you ~9-10 wins. We went to Geelong and beat Geelong. We only lost to the team that's been on top of the ladder all season by a goal after the siren. No one thought we'd be a finals chance this year yet in the second last game of the season we were still in the race.

Anyone suggesting we haven't improved at all this season is seriously being ignorant.
 

F_therest

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People saying it bewilders me. Just look at our %. 7 wins in a 6 game reduced season gives you ~9-10 wins. We went to Geelong and beat Geelong. We only lost to the team that's been on top of the ladder all season by a goal after the siren. No one thought we'd be a finals chance this year yet in the second last game of the season we were still in the race.

Anyone suggesting we haven't improved at all this season is seriously being ignorant.
Typical hyperbole after a bad loss (which almost all teams have by the way).

On top of the points you made, we were in winning positions in many of our losses like WC/Collingwood/GWS/Hawthorn...so we're doing something right even if we weren't able to finish those games off...we're clearly building.

Our best footy this year has been the best we've seen our team play for a long, long time...since 2011 when we finished 5th.
 

Space Cadet

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People saying it bewilders me. Just look at our %. 7 wins in a 6 game reduced season gives you ~9-10 wins. We went to Geelong and beat Geelong. We only lost to the team that's been on top of the ladder all season by a goal after the siren. No one thought we'd be a finals chance this year yet in the second last game of the season we were still in the race.

Anyone suggesting we haven't improved at all this season is seriously being ignorant.
This. First season since 2013 that we've been in the race for finals for most of the season.

We've improved on last year as a whole. Don't think we've improved as a team when it comes to Teague era 2019 vs 2020.
Haven't looked at any stat's to back this up, but it seems like Teague 2019 was more dependant on the older players. A lot of the younger players have stepped up this year I think.
 

Mr_Plow

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What's your thinking on this one? Do you think we've gone backwards or just the same? Or improved in some areas but gone backwards in others?
I thought under Teague in 2019 our record was 6 wins and 5 losses, with a percentage close to or marginally above 100, with wins against Brisbane, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and Fremantle. Lost to West Coast, Geelong (badly), Richmond and Melbourne (which we bottled), Bulldogs (thriller).

In 2020, the young players who have continued to improve are Weitering, Walsh, Setterfield, TDK, Williamson and probably McKay.

Silvagni and Dow have had dirty years due to injury and form. Murphy is finished. LOB has stagnated. SPS has come to life in the last 2 weeks after a terribly rough patch, but hasn't come on as the preseason suggested.

Kennedy is likely to be off the list. Cripps has had a dirty year by his standards. McGovern is lifeless. Stocker is nowhere to be found except for in strange Instagram pictures. Jones and Docherty have been solid. Lang is finished. Kemp we need to wait. Betts is finished. Plowman his usual solid self.

Martin has been mostly good. Marchbank his usual absent self. Newman unlucky. Fisher is where he was in the last 2 years. Macreadie is alive. Pittonet handy. Cuningham is being played out of position. Polson should earn another contract. Charlie unsighted.

Newnes very serviceable. Ramsay and Philp need time. Ed is a warrior. Honey, Phillips and BSOS need time. Finbar delisted. Gibbons very handy. Casboult is close to the end.

There's a lot of garbage in there, but overall:

Many players have declined/stagnated, and just as many have improved/established. The net result is that the team hasn't progressed beyond where we were under Teague last year.
 

SkyhorseTamer

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I thought under Teague in 2019 our record was 6 wins and 5 losses, with a percentage close to or marginally above 100, with wins against Brisbane, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and Fremantle. Lost to West Coast, Geelong (badly), Richmond and Melbourne (which we bottled), Bulldogs (thriller).

In 2020, the young players who have continued to improve are Weitering, Walsh, Setterfield, TDK, Williamson and probably McKay.

Silvagni and Dow have had dirty years due to injury and form. Murphy is finished. LOB has stagnated. SPS has come to life in the last 2 weeks after a terribly rough patch, but hasn't come on as the preseason suggested.

Kennedy is likely to be off the list. Cripps has had a dirty year by his standards. McGovern is lifeless. Stocker is nowhere to be found except for in strange Instagram pictures. Jones and Docherty have been solid. Lang is finished. Kemp we need to wait. Betts is finished. Plowman his usual solid self.

Martin has been mostly good. Marchbank his usual absent self. Newman unlucky. Fisher is where he was in the last 2 years. Macreadie is alive. Pittonet handy. Cuningham is being played out of position. Polson should earn another contract. Charlie unsighted.

Newnes very serviceable. Ramsay and Philp need time. Ed is a warrior. Honey, Phillips and BSOS need time. Finbar delisted. Gibbons very handy. Casboult is close to the end.

There's a lot of garbage in there, but overall:

Many players have declined/stagnated, and just as many have improved/established. The net result is that the team hasn't progressed beyond where we were under Teague last year.
Nicely summarised. Basically my feelings about it too. Overall a disappointing year, should've been one that showed a lot of growth. Ignore starting and finishing spots for us, the in between should've been some really obvious development. It wasn't really obvious this season and there was plenty of decline that stood out too. I think quite a lot to do with the list profile but that doesn't really excuse the apparent slow down in some players improvement and increase in others decline.
 

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HARKER

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Nicely summarised. Basically my feelings about it too. Overall a disappointing year, should've been one that showed a lot of growth. Ignore starting and finishing spots for us, the in between should've been some really obvious development. It wasn't really obvious this season and there was plenty of decline that stood out too. I think quite a lot to do with the list profile but that doesn't really excuse the apparent slow down in some players improvement and increase in others decline.
In fairness though, it wasn't easy to do that for a variety of reasons -

1. We were geared/built up up for the long season, via the pre-season and got a short one instead.
2. Injuries haven't been kind to us; Kreuzer, Marchbank, CCurnow, Kemp, Newman, Dow, JSilvagni and Stocker, have had either no, or very little involvement.
3. We've only really played 15 games to date. That's only 2/3's of a normal season.
4. We've been in most games one way or another, but haven't the experience to open up nor close down games, when required.
5. The scratch matches haven't really helped along our young list.

I feel we should have learned a lot this year, even for the unusual nature of it and our flaws are staring us in the face.
It really shouldn't be too difficult to remedy with proper consideration and implementation.....and if we can't, then there's no help at all.
 

SkyhorseTamer

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In fairness though, it wasn't easy to do that for a variety of reasons -

1. We were geared/built up up for the long season, via the pre-season and got a short one instead.
2. Injuries haven't been kind to us; Kreuzer, Marchbank, CCurnow, Kemp, Newman, Dow, JSilvagni and Stocker, have had either no, or very little involvement.
3. We've only really played 15 games to date. That's only 2/3's of a normal season.
4. We've been in most games one way or another, but haven't the experience to open up nor close down games, when required.
5. The scratch matches haven't really helped along our young list.

I feel we should have learned a lot this year, even for the unusual nature of it and our flaws are staring us in the face.
It really shouldn't be too difficult to remedy with proper consideration and implementation.....and if we can't, then there's no help at all.
So through 15 games of a normal season those first 4 reasons are all just excuses. They are this year too. I'm happy with the list and I think it'll come together, just disappointed in this seasons lack of growth. None of those reasons are good enough to halt it like it seemingly did this year. Injuries will always occur, and in young lists should be seen as an opportunity for the next guy up to have a crack. Yet we got to watch Dow and LOB come in and not want to take their chance when injuries (or management, whatever) cleared them a path into the senior team. Being in most games is the minimum requirement of every AFL team, in fact it should be a non negotiable to be in every game. Obviously winning every game in unrealistic, effort to be in all is not, even in a shorter more crammed season.

We saw lovely improvement from players like Weitering, but we saw too much of the other side too. Which shouldn't be so easily excused.
 

Stamos

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People saying it bewilders me. Just look at our %. 7 wins in a 6 game reduced season gives you ~9-10 wins. We went to Geelong and beat Geelong. We only lost to the team that's been on top of the ladder all season by a goal after the siren. No one thought we'd be a finals chance this year yet in the second last game of the season we were still in the race.

Anyone suggesting we haven't improved at all this season is seriously being ignorant.
Our results this year, and then the corresponding game last year for those we played:
It should be noted that the Cats game was the last game of the year, our only smashing. We haven't played our last game of the year yet, let's see if we can improve against the Lions.

Richmond - Lost by 24, last year lost by 28
Melbourne - Lost by 1, last year lost by 5
Geelong - Won by 2, last year lost by 68
* - won by 1, (didn't play)
Saints - Lost by 18, last year won by 10
Dogs - Won by 52, last year lost by 3
Port - Lost by 3 (didn't play)
North - Won by 7 (didn't play)
Hawks - Lost by 31 (didn't play)
West Coast - Lost by 22, last year lost by 24
Freo - Won by 4, last year won by 4
Suns - Won by 33, last year won by 24
Pies - Lost by 24 (didn't play)
Giants - Lost by 9 (didn't play)
Swans - Won by 5, last year won by 7
Adelaide - Lost by 16, last year won by 27
Brisbane - last year won by 15

We've gone from 6-5 and 95.5% to 7-9 and a 95.6%

From the 10 clubs we played last year, we had a huge improvement against Cats and Dogs, but the rest was either very similar, or worse.
We've also had a much more settled backline this year.

It really doesn't look like improvement.
 

Yubby

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I thought under Teague in 2019 our record was 6 wins and 5 losses, with a percentage close to or marginally above 100, with wins against Brisbane, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and Fremantle. Lost to West Coast, Geelong (badly), Richmond and Melbourne (which we bottled), Bulldogs (thriller).

In 2020, the young players who have continued to improve are Weitering, Walsh, Setterfield, TDK, Williamson and probably McKay.

Silvagni and Dow have had dirty years due to injury and form. Murphy is finished. LOB has stagnated. SPS has come to life in the last 2 weeks after a terribly rough patch, but hasn't come on as the preseason suggested.

Kennedy is likely to be off the list. Cripps has had a dirty year by his standards. McGovern is lifeless. Stocker is nowhere to be found except for in strange Instagram pictures. Jones and Docherty have been solid. Lang is finished. Kemp we need to wait. Betts is finished. Plowman his usual solid self.

Martin has been mostly good. Marchbank his usual absent self. Newman unlucky. Fisher is where he was in the last 2 years. Macreadie is alive. Pittonet handy. Cuningham is being played out of position. Polson should earn another contract. Charlie unsighted.

Newnes very serviceable. Ramsay and Philp need time. Ed is a warrior. Honey, Phillips and BSOS need time. Finbar delisted. Gibbons very handy. Casboult is close to the end.

There's a lot of garbage in there, but overall:

Many players have declined/stagnated, and just as many have improved/established. The net result is that the team hasn't progressed beyond where we were under Teague last year.
See it's funny Plow, i agree with you 100% on every person you've mentioned from a player improvement and stagnation perspective however i feel like overall we've played slightly better footy this year than the 2nd half of last year. I don't know how the 'team' does better yet the players are mostly the same. Perhaps its the really strong players improvement outweighs the stagnation of others?

My thinking around why the team has improved is that..
  • We're in every game now with an opportunity to win in almost every game (8 games with W/L within 10 points)
  • We have won a lot of close games (5 under 10 points)
  • There's been no blow outs at all and we've had a lower losing margin (even accounting for shorter quarters biggest losing margin is 31 to Hawks)
  • We've beaten teams in form when we play them (Geelong, Essendon, Dogs)
  • We're tackling better than last year
  • We're massively disappointed we haven't won more games and its legitimate!
  • We were in the finals race up until last round of the season
  • Same number of wins with less losses
Anyway, it's all moot as like you i feel frustrated and disappointed as there was so much opportunity for growth and improvement.

I feel our game plan has gone backwards compared to last year under Teague which is a shame. Player development is also a concern however understandable given we've been playing 12 a side rather than VFL. To me the playing people out of position part of this year just made no sense.

Numbers wise, it appears we're trending in the right direction however the stats may be misleading given they include the Bolton games too.

1600242336133.png
 

Yubby

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Also the 6 teams we were due to play again were Tigers, Eagles, Saints, Dees, Swans, North. You'd hope that we'd have 2-4 wins out of those opponents to take us to 9 wins for the season, possibly up to 10 or 11.
 

djw1952

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Cornes is right, we haven't got much better if at all.
That guy is such a flog, and when does he do anything but knock teams and make up "fake news"..........still waiting for his headline chaser to come true about Fyffe & Crippa swapping teams!!! 99.9% of what he says is just sniping and has no football information or integrity at all.........hates the Crows & us in particular. As I said on here another time, if "the Truth" newspaper was still in business he would be their head writer as there was never anything in that paper that even came close to being the truth as it was all about muckraking and innuendo which is kane f***ing cornes all over!!! A lot of journos these days seem to think that they are more important than the actual game imo, but at least a few of them come up with some actual content that provides information that is true & interesting occasionally, not just personal attacks that are designed to just create more attention for him no matter how ridiculous the articles are!!! I also cannot recall him ever knocking Port Power, but maybe that`s because he played 300 games for them the biased little turd........Even if he did write something interesting it would be lost amongst all the other tall poppy syndrome rubbish that he writes!!! By the way it`s apparently Teagues` fault that Murphy & Simmo carried Gibbs off the ground last weekend because he is too soft on them...............:poo::sick::mad:
 

HARKER

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So through 15 games of a normal season those first 4 reasons are all just excuses. They are this year too. I'm happy with the list and I think it'll come together, just disappointed in this seasons lack of growth. None of those reasons are good enough to halt it like it seemingly did this year. Injuries will always occur, and in young lists should be seen as an opportunity for the next guy up to have a crack. Yet we got to watch Dow and LOB come in and not want to take their chance when injuries (or management, whatever) cleared them a path into the senior team. Being in most games is the minimum requirement of every AFL team, in fact it should be a non negotiable to be in every game. Obviously winning every game in unrealistic, effort to be in all is not, even in a shorter more crammed season.

We saw lovely improvement from players like Weitering, but we saw too much of the other side too. Which shouldn't be so easily excused.
Injuries will occur. Just not so much for Brisbane and Richmond.
Hard to control long term impact injuries, but we haven't been served well on this front....to date. It's been a while since we've had a good run.

The other points were somewhat inter-relatable, given the way Russell built the players up via the pre-season.
Listen to him speak about it early in the year and you'll see what I mean.

We saw improvement from Weitering & McKay and may have even seen improvement from CCurnow & Silvagni had they played and given all are in their fifth year.
We do need to see further improvement next year from several others, but getting them onto the park will be first on the agenda; Dow, Stocker & Kemp.

I can see people putting up games and percentages comparing the Teague era 2019/20.....but we know it was a bit of a dead cat bounce situation, last year.
I don't see our issues as hard to fix. I really don't. I think we 'almost' know where we are now.

For me the trick will be putting in place the right pieces into the puzzle via this upcoming pre-season.
Development is key for the youth and then we have to train players into the roles that will serve us best.....and if we can't get either right, then we will be in trouble.....but this shouldn't be the case now given a full year under the belt of Teague and Power.

i.e. It wasn't a great year but we must have learned plenty from it.
 

Gethelred

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It's the one thing I want from this off season: someone to go in and ******* sort out our rehab/recovery/sports science departments. While there are types who get injured on a more regular basis than others, so too is it happening too often at Carlton.

I'd kill for a 10 game patch with a full list available.
 

HARKER

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It's the one thing I want from this off season: someone to go in and ******* sort out our rehab/recovery/sports science departments. While there are types who get injured on a more regular basis than others, so too is it happening too often at Carlton.

I'd kill for a 10 game patch with a full list available.
Did you look at Brisbane's weekly injury reports?
I'd say that by far most weeks they had their best 22 available and the one that didn't get onto the park was Adams. Is he even in their best ?

To pretend that this has no bearing on a clubs' fortunes, just isn't right.


EDIT: They have lost one serious player now, in Andrews, so we'll see how they go without him.
 

Gethelred

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Did you look at Brisbane's weekly injury reports?
I'd say that by far most weeks they had their best 22 available and the one that didn't get onto the park was Adams. Is he even in their best ?

To pretend that this has no bearing on a clubs' fortunes, just isn't right.


EDIT: They have lost one serious player now, in Andrews, so we'll see how they go without him.
Pretty ******* much.

I'd love to know which elder deity they sacrificed Allen Christensen to, in order to get the run they got.
 

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