Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[HARKER]

Terrible post.

You don't understand the meaning of common words in the English language - like 'might'.

and then go on to write some extrapolated dribble based on your own lack of understanding of basic words.

I'm not the one missing the point though and I made this point a long time ago - We have a weak board with no vision and a lack of understanding of what the club really needs and how to get from A to B.
You can continue to blame him and her and this and that, but it always starts at the source doesn't it? ........... and all you have is to pick out my basic understanding of words, when you have a basic misunderstanding of ideas.

There would be interest in both

What would we get for Jack? Not a lot but maybe as a pawn in a trade.
Ben? I can't see it.

 

[Arr0w]

[QUOTE="HARKER, post: 66291350,

What would we get for Jack? Not a lot but maybe as a pawn in a trade.
Ben? I can't see it.
[/QUOTE]

Jack, probably in the range he was taken. Ben, would be a token pick

Both are worth more to us

I still believe Jack's best position is as an inside mid changing forward, his direct competition is Kennedy

Ben, will come on and surprise people. Strong chance he is still growing and has way more upside than a Goddard who I would release

 

[HARKER]

I don't even care should we lose the Silvagnis, if bad blood is shown in any way at all around the club for the removal of SOS.

It should have never got to that, but it was allowed to get to that. There's the problem; It was allowed to get to that point. No one able to mediate the issue that was brewing all year, because of 'friendships' Anyway, we've been through this many times before. Groundhog day has begun.

Jack, probably in the range he was taken. Ben, would be a token pick
Both are worth more to us

I still believe Jack's best position is as an inside mid changing forward, his direct competition is Kennedy
Ben, will come on and surprise people. Strong chance he is still growing and has way more upside than a Goddard who I would release

That's what I thought re. Jack - A third rounder somewhere...
Ben is an odd one though and s I've said before - Sometimes he seems as though he doesn't even want to be there...and this was before his dads departure.

Anyway, Jack has a year to run on his contract but of it's the club that want him out....then that's a different story.

I wonder how Tom is going?

 

[Arr0w]

I don't even care should we lose the Silvagnis, if bad blood is shown in any way at all around the club for the removal of SOS.

It should have never got to that, but it was allowed to get to that. There's the problem; It was allowed to get to that point. No one able to mediate the issue that was brewing all year, because of 'friendships' Anyway, we've been through this many times before. Groundhog day has begun.



That's what I thought re. Jack - A third rounder somewhere...
Ben is an odd one though and s I've said before - Sometimes he seems as though he doesn't even want to be there...and this was before his dads departure.

Anyway, Jack has a year to run on his contract but of it's the club that want him out....then that's a different story.

I wonder how Tom is going?

You are putting too much emphasis on one aspect, as to why the boys could seek a trade

Anyway, let's see how it plays out

 

[HARKER]

You are putting too much emphasis on one aspect, as to why the boys could seek a trade

Anyway, let's see how it plays out

I'd be thrilled should Jack be a part in a trade that would advantage us. Sydney could be a good suitor for him and O'Brien.

Ben doesn't need to ask for a trade though. He'd either be delisted or given away for a 'Palmer' type token piece.

 

[Arr0w]

I'd be thrilled should Jack be a part in a trade that would advantage us. Sydney could be a good suitor for him and O'Brien.

Ben doesn't need to ask for a trade though. He'd either be delisted or given away for a 'Palmer' type token piece.

Trading Jack and LOB?

That would be foolish

 

[HARKER]

Trading Jack and LOB?

That would be foolish

No. That would be great, should we get what we need.
We have plenty of players waiting in the wings to come through, if we can develop them.
If we can't develop though, we'll have to endure playing Newnes, Murphy, Newman for several years yet and risk losing others for lack of opportunity.

 

[Red Bull]

No. That would be great, should we get what we need.
We have plenty of players waiting in the wings to come through, if we can develop them.
If we can't develop though, we'll have to endure playing Newnes, Murphy, Newman for several years yet and risk losing others for lack of opportunity.

Now we’re getting somewhere ...

 

[Arr0w]

No. That would be great, should we get what we need.
We have plenty of players waiting in the wings to come through, if we can develop them.
If we can't develop though, we'll have to endure playing Newnes, Murphy, Newman for several years yet and risk losing others for lack of opportunity.

This really bemuses me...

People talk about building, having, not having, strong culture and staggeringly, win/loss culture, yet are quick to possibly destroy the very fabric great culture is built upon

This young group, amassed over a short period has endured and now seems to be coming out the other end, only for some/many people willing to fracture it, with what they see, not only as a better option, but a willingness to discard, due to continued impatience, rather than what is best for the group as a whole

Even if every single young player comes on, our older and or break glass players will be long gone

As for the likes of Murphy and or other senior players, we won't be enduring these types for several years, they will be gone, over the next 3

We have enough assets to target needs, in the way of picks, without fracturing the foundations

 

[Ricky Mott]

What's happened? Nothing has happened yet.

If JSilvagni wants to leave because of what happened to his father....good luck.
He's contracted for another year and there's unlikely to be suitors lining up for him, so what to do?

BSilvagni will likely be shown the door anyway.
Is there one team that would genuinely be interested?

Let's not play this it as though we may be losing Walsh and Weitering.

Not sure about your thoughts. Watch this space!!

 

[HARKER]

This really bemuses me...
People talk about building, having, not having, strong culture and staggeringly, win/loss culture, yet are quick to possibly destroy the very fabric great culture is built upon
This young group, amassed over a short period has endured and now seems to be coming out the other end, only for some/many people willing to fracture it, with what they see, not only as a better option, but a willingness to discard, due to continued impatience, rather than what is best for the group as a whole
Even if every single young player comes on, our older and or break glass players will be long gone
As for the likes of Murphy and or other senior players, we won't be enduring these types for several years, they will be gone, over the next 3
We have enough assets to target needs, in the way of picks, without fracturing the foundations

No team cannot retain every player on their list, be them young or old.
Players come and players go. Players my be delisted, request a trade for money and opportunity, or be traded out. This has nothing to do with culture.
It's simply the reality of the game, given TPP, list sizes and the enforced requirement to make list changes.

I don't know which part bemuses you.
We've already discussed JSilvagni, so let's discuss O'Brien. Where is he in the pecking order?
We have 22 on the field and 4 emergencies, which he's not a part of. We then have all our injured, that most would get a game before him; Marchbank, Kreuzer, CCurnow, McKay, Newman, Kemp, Dow, JSilvagni, McGovern, Stocker - 10 players. * N.B. Of course not all these player may be vying for O'Briens position but.....where does he stand?

Are we waiting for planets to align where Newnes gets injured or his form drops further and O'Brien to have some good weeks before he gets a look in?
Where is he at...and it has nothing to do with retaining him for cultures' sake. Maybe he needs a change of scenery. Find out.

Anyway, we have to get the balance of our best team right and not worry about upsetting the odd individual here or there.
Our main problem is as Liddle put it (paraphrasing here) 'We need to know what we have in our own back yard first'. If we don't know.....problem.

 

[Arr0w]

No team cannot retain every player on their list, be them young or old.
Players come and players go. Players my be delisted, request a trade for money and opportunity, or be traded out. This has nothing to do with culture.
It's simply the reality of the game, given TPP, list sizes and the enforced requirement to make list changes.

I don't know which part bemuses you.
We've already discussed JSilvagni, so let's discuss O'Brien. Where is he in the pecking order?
We have 22 on the field and 4 emergencies, which he's not a part of. We then have all our injured, that most would get a game before him; Marchbank, Kreuzer, CCurnow, McKay, Newman, Kemp, Dow, JSilvagni, McGovern, Stocker - 10 players. * N.B. Of course not all these player may be vying for O'Briens position but.....where does he stand?

Are we waiting for planets to align where Newnes gets injured or his form drops further and O'Brien to have some good weeks before he gets a look in?
Where is he at...and it has nothing to do with retaining him for cultures' sake. Maybe he needs a change of scenery. Find out.

Anyway, we have to get the balance of our best team right and not worry about upsetting the odd individual here or there.
Our main problem is as Liddle put it (paraphrasing here) 'We need to know what we have in our own back yard first'. If we don't know.....problem.

So many contradictions, around what you want in terms of culture and impatience of what we want now, rather than watching it continue to evolve

I have no issue with players wanting out for opportunity, money, family, etc, but to force a trade, well that just goes back to the Kennedy debacle

We know players don't have linear developments, just like Weitering. Could you imagine if we traded him for "whatever we can get" ?

'We need to know what we have in our own back yard first'. Yet, you have already determined who or what is expendable, purely because they are not currently regular best 22 or we are not sitting comfortably in the 8

 

[Jabba73]

Very different players however, can't really compare

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Both play as the third tall forward

 

[ESKIE]

I’d rather Jack than say Marchbank.....or Newnes or...

depends what he wants I suppose

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm not the one missing the point though and I made this point a long time ago - We have a weak board with no vision and a lack of understanding of what the club really needs and how to get from A to B.
You can continue to blame him and her and this and that, but it always starts at the source doesn't it? ........... and all you have is to pick out my basic understanding of words, when you have a basic misunderstanding of ideas.



What would we get for Jack? Not a lot but maybe as a pawn in a trade.
Ben? I can't see it.

This post is off-topic and out of context as well as plain wrong.

You have a habit of making things up and shifting conversations in an effort to disguise your poor comprehension ability.

This makes it difficult to have a rational conversation.

I'll keep trying when I'm in the mood though - because I am a patient pedagogue.

 

[HARKER]

This post is off-topic and out of context as well as plain wrong.
You have a habit of making things up and shifting conversations in an effort to disguise your poor comprehension ability.
This makes it difficult to have a rational conversation.
I'll keep trying when I'm in the mood though - because I am a patient pedagogue.

So by going off-topic on an off-topic post, things are somehow made better?

I referenced your post but it was more about the broader concerns for the Silvagni boys wanting to leave.
I shouldn't have referenced your post in particular if that makes things better...now, do you forgive me, or do you want to tell me more about myself and save me the consultation fees?

 

[ESKIE]

another de railed thread

 

[Stamos]

another de railed thread

Kind of what this thread is for

 

[BlueGum]

Please take this discussion to list management.

 

[ESKIE]

Kind of what this thread is for

yes ok... but

Arguing about arguing
going around in circles

healthy discussion preferably

 

[Brackets]

resolve what exactly - that your father was sacked by a bunch of interlopers and accused of forcing the CLub to play Jack? Sprayed teh words conflict of interst all over the press - as a thanks for all your hard work SOS ? Really what world do you live in Stamos?

how does Jack resolve all that - since it was the Carlton 'CEO' as some like to call him - that said all that - on behalf of the whole football department no less?

Enjoy the memberships Carlton.

Do you not see a contradiction in dismissing the merits of a conflict of interest, while suggesting it would be understandable for Jack to depart for how his father was treated.

SOS wasn't sacked, his contract wasn't renewed. This happens every year at every club. If Jack and Ben's retention relied on continued employment of their dad, or vice versa, some may say that's a COI.

 

[Jabba73]

Do you not see a contradiction in dismissing the merits of a conflict of interest, while suggesting it would be understandable for Jack to depart for how his father was treated.

SOS wasn't sacked, his contract wasn't renewed. This happens every year at every club. If Jack and Ben's retention relied on continued employment of their dad, or vice versa, some may say that's a COI.

The club made the departure of SOS about a conflict of interest with his sons on the list.

The club made it an issue, not the player and not the list manager

 

[Brackets]

The club made the departure of SOS about a conflict of interest with his sons on the list.

The club made it an issue, not the player and not the list manager

Well yes it's not common for the parties with a potential COI to be the ones to raise it as an issue.

Those suggesting a player would be within their rights to leave for how we treated our list manager are imo doing nothing but validating the notion.

Thankfully when we did sack someone last year, it was just the coach, otherwise we might have, understandably, had a real exodus on our hands.

 

[Jabba73]

Well yes it's not common for the parties with a potential COI to be the ones to raise it as an issue.

Those suggesting a player would be within their rights to leave for how we treated our list manager are imo doing nothing but validating the notion.

Thankfully when we did sack someone last year, it was just the coach, otherwise we might have, understandably, had a real exodus on our hands.

The club made it about the players

 

[JustaBattler]

Do you not see a contradiction in dismissing the merits of a conflict of interest, while suggesting it would be understandable for Jack to depart for how his father was treated.

SOS wasn't sacked, his contract wasn't renewed. This happens every year at every club. If Jack and Ben's retention relied on continued employment of their dad, or vice versa, some may say that's a COI.

do you not read what people actually write or are you too comprehension disadvantaged?

The current executive at the Club announced to the world that SOS had a demonstrated and perceived conflict of interest regarding his sons and that this supposed conflict of interest made it difficult for these appointed interlopers to do their job - specifically referencing MC meetings.

The inference and only inference being that Jack did not deserve being played and in fact, his being played was forced on these people by the power of SOS's conflict interventions.

So in the eyes of these interlopers - Jack was not fit to play AFL for Carlton.