Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Stats hey. Apparently champion data are the best in the business. They rated Melbourne list as best in the comp last year - they finished 17th. I see today that they have rated the kangaroos as the third best current midfield in the comp for 2019. Surely they jest.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[TerryWallet]

I am in the what a all the fuss about Dow camp as well. Hodge couldn't kick over a jam tin till his 4th season (Confirmed by himself) Dow has natural vision and speed of hand that inevitably will rise to the top. Kid's played less than 30 games or so. He will be a gun, you can see it in his temperament, has been thrown to the wolves since being drafted. Not a sound way to bring on a no 3 pick that lacks the physical tools to handle it. He will be fine.

I'm in the bullish camp on Dow. He'll be a dangerous AFL player.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I'm in the bullish camp on Dow. He'll be a dangerous AFL player.

Is he ready for a breakout year in 2020 or does he need one more year?

 

[ferrisb]

Dusty wont even be the best Martin going around the AFL by this time next year

Stefan Martin is a pretty good ruckman, but he's getting pretty old.....

 

[teagueyubeauty]

His kicking is weak as piss as is Dustin Martins. They kick long to a contest. Dangers strength is breaking from a contest and just kicking at goal. You can already see the opportunity for Dow to do the same. He breaks away very well but tries to hit a lead at pave which he struggles with. If he played for richmond they’d be wanking over him like Pickett and stack.

We must be watching different games, Dusty’s disposal is absolutely elite. The complete footballer, can do it all except get more than 4 feet off the ground unless he’s in Vegas


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[WalshistheGOAT]

Disposal efficiency is a bung stat. The degree of difficulty the kicks the elite players go for isnt accounted for properly. Josh Kelly, Dusty, Jetta etc go for game opening kicks that either backfire horrendously or end in a goal nearly every time. Take a look at Hayden Youngs kick in the championships, thats still considered either a hit or a miss when in reality only about 5 blokes in the AFL could pull that off. People point at Dow's poor kicking because he misses easier kicks and open shots at goal a plenty, both of which are considered basic skills for an AFL footballer. The skill it takes to pinpoint a kick straight after breaking a tackle is also underrated, the fact that Dusty can stay balanced enough to hit targets straight out of a tackle or fend off is crazy.

Dow is a hard worker so I have faith he'll continue to improve and end up a good player for us, but that will be measured on his impact on games, not by looking at stats. Jake Lloyd and Tom Mitchell can keep their 30-50 touches a game, ill take 25 from Dusty any day over those two.

 

[mediumsizered]

The petition was ludicrous, but we do look like a basket case.
And it's not the media doing it, it's the people in the club. Egos and politics before the betterment of the club.

We just sacked one of the best List Managers in the game over a ******* power struggle pissing contest.
That is basket case behaviour.

The only "basket cases" are those who are making this out to be earth shattering (that includes both media & supporters).

What I do like about how both the club & SOS have handled this is they are not playing out any dispute in the public domain. The club released a statement, which perhaps could have been articulated better, & SOS has quietly moved on.

From what I have observed there may have been a leak/s from within the club from a SOS supporter (I have my thoughts on who it is & I'm confident it wasn't the President) & it is only this & some outraged supporters on social media that are allowing this story to continue to have some oxygen.

In the meantime the playing list, under the guidance of Teague, Russell, Diesel etc are getting on with the pre-season pretty much unaffected by this event, with everyone's focus being directed at being ready to go for Round 1, which is now less than 15 weeks away. When the umpire bounces that ball on March 19 to start the 2020 season, not one player or coach will be giving a thought to SOS' departure from the club.

I liken this to the demise of Jezza at the end of 1979. I was shattered at the time & it seemed the club had badly torn itself apart, only to dust itself off & come out firing in Round 1 of 1980, beating up on the Magpies. Being a favorite son is what makes it seem a lot worse than what it really is. Whether it is Jezza, Big Nick, Ratts, SOS, all of whom did not have the opportunity to finish entirely on their own terms, their name & the esteem in which they have been held at our club always generates additional angst, but we move on because there is nothing better than watching our players in action in the Navy Blue & White during the footy season. This is what it is all about.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Not really. I’ve done plenty eye tests watching live. I don’t deny his ability. But 5 clangers a game isn’t amazing. People are criticising Dow’s disposal at this early stage but he’s still as efficient as Martin. Im not trying to have a go. I’m using the best as an example of how far he has to go in terms of disposal. The all around package of Martin is another box all together. Btw would Martin be as good without that fend off. It gives him space to hit a target. Without it I think his disposal would be even worse.

Couldn't fend off the Fish, got him twice in one game.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Disposal efficiency is a bung stat. The degree of difficulty the kicks the elite players go for isnt accounted for properly. Josh Kelly, Dusty, Jetta etc go for game opening kicks that either backfire horrendously or end in a goal nearly every time. Take a look at Hayden Youngs kick in the championships, thats still considered either a hit or a miss when in reality only about 5 blokes in the AFL could pull that off. People point at Dow's poor kicking because he misses easier kicks and open shots at goal a plenty, both of which are considered basic skills for an AFL footballer. The skill it takes to pinpoint a kick straight after breaking a tackle is also underrated, the fact that Dusty can stay balanced enough to hit targets straight out of a tackle or fend off is crazy.

Dow is a hard worker so I have faith he'll continue to improve and end up a good player for us, but that will be measured on his impact on games, not by looking at stats. Jake Lloyd and Tom Mitchell can keep their 30-50 touches a game, ill take 25 from Dusty any day over those two.

Yep, most of the highest kicking efficiency players are backmen, who under no pressure kick sideways to unmarked players. One of our most efficient kickers was Brett Thornton.

The contested beast who have people hanging off them, the lowest kicking efficiency.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Stats hey. Apparently champion data are the best in the business. They rated Melbourne list as best in the comp last year - they finished 17th. I see today that they have rated the kangaroos as the third best current midfield in the comp for 2019. Surely they jest.

They also rated Walsh the fourth best first year player in 2019, I love stats but that is just embarrassing

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Yep, most of the highest kicking efficiency players are backmen, who under no pressure kick sideways to unmarked players. One of our most efficient kickers was Brad Thornton.

The contested beast who have people hanging off them, the lowest kicking efficiency.

It was Brett and i was not a fan. Kicked sideways every single time. Just refused the more attacking option of a long kick to a one on one.

 

[Blue Bloods]

It was Brett and i was not a fan. Kicked sideways every single time. Just refused the more attacking option of a long kick to a one on one.

Yeah Brett sorry (I remember screaming at him many times), he would never risk his outstanding kicking efficiency with an attacking option, but that's my point kicking efficiency is one of the least important stats in the game, unless you compare like for like.

 

[footyfan1978]

It was Brett and i was not a fan. Kicked sideways every single time. Just refused the more attacking option of a long kick to a one on one.

Courtesy of being taught to play so negatively under Pagan when he first started out. Some habits never leave a player like that. It is why I hated Pagan coach in his time at our club.

 

[Red Bull]

Stefan Martin is a pretty good ruckman, but he's getting pretty old.....

Not as old as Harold ... or as dangerous

 

[Jabba73]

It was Brett and i was not a fan. Kicked sideways every single time. Just refused the more attacking option of a long kick to a one on one.

Pretty sure it was Bret. If he saw the error, he would certainly point it out.

 

[ferrisb]

Pretty sure it was Bret. If he saw the error, he would certainly point it out.

I used to call him Terb, on account of all the times he went backwards...

 

[TerryWallet]

I used to call him Terb, on account of all the times he went backwards...

My most disliked/frustrating player ever. He used to drive me mad. And i'm one of those unflappable watchers. Not even the umps rile me.

Terb is a ripper name lol.

Mark(he was good at that), saunter back(he was better at that), look left, look right, assess, look back, assess, chip. Repeat.

Then abuse his teammates 5 times a game, usually in an attempt to mask his own stuff up.

 

[Gethelred]

The petition was ludicrous, but we do look like a basket case.
And it's not the media doing it, it's the people in the club. Egos and politics before the betterment of the club.

We just sacked one of the best List Managers in the game over a ******* power struggle pissing contest.
That is basket case behaviour.

How many times, Stamos? How many times are you going to run with this?

You know what would be basket case behaviour? After sacking our List Manager, also sacking our CEO and our president. Hang on a minute, haven't you advocated that in another thread?

This prolonged silliness is growing tiring.

 

[mg25]

You wanna have a really really good look mate.

Yep. Embarrassing. I just got half way through. In awe. He truly is a champion, and if Paddy can get his kicking even almost as good, he'll he a superstar.

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[Stamos]

How many times, Stamos? How many times are you going to run with this?

You know what would be basket case behaviour? After sacking our List Manager, also sacking our CEO and our president. Hang on a minute, haven't you advocated that in another thread?

This prolonged silliness is growing tiring.

No, letting our club be run by ego, rather than good judgement is the basket case. The CEO is quite simply not up to the job, or we wouldn't be in this situation.
We need clean air, so hopefully we can get rid of egos and have a club run in a professional manner.

 

[Jabba73]

Then abuse his teammates 5 times a game, usually in an attempt to mask his own stuff up.

The reason I could never warm to him. Still remember him in the goal square giving Simmo a spray for messing up a spoil on their ruckman, while Bret stood and watched the contest. Disgusting

 

[Gethelred]

No, letting our club be run by ego, rather than good judgement is the basket case. The CEO is quite simply not up to the job, or we wouldn't be in this situation.
We need clean air, so hopefully we can get rid of egos and have a club run in a professional manner.

No, firing everyone in given range and sight and succumbing to media pressure is the sign of a basket case. I can't stop you posting and/or having a good hard whinge, but that doesn't stop it from being one.

 

[Stamos]

No, firing everyone in given range and sight and succumbing to media pressure is the sign of a basket case. I can't stop you posting and/or having a good hard whinge, but that doesn't stop it from being one.

I'm not saying fire everyone, just 1.
An inexperienced CEO who is running on ego. It's the egos and factions and politics that have stopped our Club having success this century. We need to put a stop to it, and it won't happen when Liddle is there.

 

[Jabba73]

No, firing everyone in given range and sight and succumbing to media pressure is the sign of a basket case. I can't stop you posting and/or having a good hard whinge, but that doesn't stop it from being one.

Hang on a sec, we fired Bolton partly because of media pressure about the win/loss record, despite publicly stating that was not the measure we were asking him to focus on.

We sacked SOS partly over media pressure about conflicts of interest, despite him already having an exit strategy and being very effective at his job.

We are a basket case if succumbing to media pressure is the measure.

The scrutiny will now be on the CEO and President, history suggests that the media will also play a part in their removal in the near future. Tipping they won’t both be in their current roles by this time next year.

 

[Stamos]

Hang on a sec, we fired Bolton partly because of media pressure about the win/loss record, despite publicly stating that was not the measure we were asking him to focus on.

We sacked SOS partly over media pressure about conflicts of interest, despite him already having an exit strategy and being very effective at his job.

We are a basket case if succumbing to media pressure is the measure.

The scrutiny will now be on the CEO and President, history suggests that the media will also play a part in their removal in the near future. Tipping they won’t both be in their current roles by this time next year.

We know MLG will stand down next year, the succession plan is apparently in place.
We can only hope the CEO is replaced, the sooner the better.