Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Firstly, stop crying if somebody questions Butcher's worth or ability. The guy is not getting selected and I'm not the person making that decision so suck it up and don't let me see those tears again. Get passed the obsession with Butcher. I know he was pick 8 and we don't want the club to be ridiculed if "the future" fades away into 'the past'. If Butcher can't get himself selected and somebody else does and gets the job done, we move on.

Who cares about the other forwards in the sanfl competition. Let's face it, the sanfl defenders are not something to boast about. He may have the best defender on him, great, but it needs to be viewed in perspective. He does kick goals, he finds some freedom for the feed and kicks goals, but he's also taken some grabs and chosen to snap for goal rather than line up for the conventional set shot.

Cory Beard played on Shaw. He'd be one of few decent defenders in the sanfl.

Listen, I'm saying the third tall does not need to be Butcher. At the moment Hinkley is selecting a non-tall ahead of Butcher. Teams are giving their attention to Westhoff and Schulz always, of course, but with Butcher in the side if Port were to get the ball inside 50 to a tall forward, as an opposition coach I would be enticing Port to get the ball to Butcher and take my chances. A smaller defender plays on Butcher to win the ball at ground level at the expense of giving up the high ball to Butcher.

Well that was polite.

I just responded to you, it had nothing to do with crying every time Butcher has a detractor. I'm not sure if you've been following, but Ken isn't picking a third tall forward. It has nothing to do with Butcher's form. We lost two tall defenders and we replaced them with one tall flanker.

It also has nothing to do with where he was selected. Butcher is faster than most key forwards, has great hands, defensive pressure and can get goals that other key forwards can't. If he works out his set shots, he's an absolute nightmare to match up on. That's why I'm such a fan of him.

We can disagree on how we view a player, but it's pretty shit of you to start making assumptions of me and telling me I'm having a cry.

This is a thread about having a third tall forward. Some of us don't feel our current structure is the best going forward. We've lost two of our last three. Butch is what some of us, including me, feel is our best option for our forward structure. I have presented my reasons why and that's it. I don't know why you felt the need to go on the aattack.

 

[PA88]

So your plan as an opposition coach would be to put a small on Butcher, allow him to mark basically uncontested then hope that he misses his shots?

Is that seriously what you're arguing?

Do you people seriously interpret matters to this ridiculous black or white nature? Butcher is a tall bloke and you'd look to play a tall on him but if you need to use your talls to cover Schulz or pick up Westhoff floating into the 50 then most teams are likely stretching their list to get a capable tall to stand a Butcher that can also compete at ground level. They could possibly play a mid-tall that's maybe going to concede some of the high ball but will compete with Butcher at ground level because his ground level game is pretty decent. It may be that they concede the mark or two gambling on Butcher's poor set shot. Teams don't have square players to fill all the square holes the opposition lay out to them. If our forward line was lining up against our backs, who would you play on Butcher?

 

[PA88]

Well that was polite.

I just responded to you, it had nothing to do with crying every time Butcher has a detractor. I'm not sure if you've been following, but Ken isn't picking a third tall forward. It has nothing to do with Butcher's form. We lost two tall defenders and we replaced them with one tall flanker.

It also has nothing to do with where he was selected. Butcher is faster than most key forwards, has great hands, defensive pressure and can get goals that other key forwards can't. If he works out his set shots, he's an absolute nightmare to match up on. That's why I'm such a fan of him.

We can disagree on how we view a player, but it's pretty shit of you to start making assumptions of me and telling me I'm having a cry.

This is a thread about having a third tall forward. Some of us don't feel our current structure is the best going forward. We've lost two of our last three. Butch is what some of us, including me, feel is our best option for our forward structure. I have presented my reasons why and that's it. I don't know why you felt the need to go on the aattack.

"As opposed to what... not having anyone there?" Yeah ok ... let's believe I don't want anyone there.

It has plenty to do with Butcher's form if you count his set-shot and his avoidance to kick the set-shot which has had the bloke make some odd decisions on the ground and left us unimpressed. If Butcher was good at the set-shot I wouldn't see any other pressing negatives in his game that would be leaving him out of the afl side. If Butcher ends up playing every sanfl game till the end of the season and not be picked for the afl then it is a big concern.

 

[Power Girl]

I see quotes about butcher goal tally...

Then I get told they are junk time goals....

I am torn....TOOORRN

Eddie Betts goals are usually always junk time goals. Do you think the Clowns care? I actually don't give a **** how we score the goals if they are traditional or what just ****ing get them. Shulz has been manhandled and double teamed for so long give him a break. Butch will lead further down the ground and give us another option. Or maybe we could stand Kane Mitchell on Kane Cornes' head and that will do it!!!

 

[Power Girl]

Firstly, stop crying if somebody questions Butcher's worth or ability. The guy is not getting selected and I'm not the person making that decision so suck it up and don't let me see those tears again. Get passed the obsession with Butcher. I know he was pick 8 and we don't want the club to be ridiculed if "the future" fades away into 'the past'. If Butcher can't get himself selected and somebody else does and gets the job done, we move on.

Who cares about the other forwards in the sanfl competition. Let's face it, the sanfl defenders are not something to boast about. He may have the best defender on him, great, but it needs to be viewed in perspective. He does kick goals, he finds some freedom for the feed and kicks goals, but he's also taken some grabs and chosen to snap for goal rather than line up for the conventional set shot.

Cory Beard played on Shaw. He'd be one of few decent defenders in the sanfl.

Listen, I'm saying the third tall does not need to be Butcher. At the moment Hinkley is selecting a non-tall ahead of Butcher. Teams are giving their attention to Westhoff and Schulz always, of course, but with Butcher in the side if Port were to get the ball inside 50 to a tall forward, as an opposition coach I would be enticing Port to get the ball to Butcher and take my chances. A smaller defender plays on Butcher to win the ball at ground level at the expense of giving up the high ball to Butcher.

are you able to have a decent discussion without being a rude prick? You might wanna have a go at that

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Eddie Betts goals are usually always junk time goals. Do you think the Clowns care? I actually don't give a **** how we score the goals if they are traditional or what just ******* get them. Shulz has been manhandled and double teamed for so long give him a break. Butch will lead further down the ground and give us another option. Or maybe we could stand Kane Mitchell on Kane Cornes' head and that will do it!!!

Oh I can see the positives butch would bring....

But with injuries we have he should be getting a crack but isnt

Like I said I want to see butch in the side for peace of minds sake ...if he frees up westy and jay ...happy days...

 

[RossFC]

Butch doesn't even need to kick goals.

Just ******* palm it down the ground and let Gray/Wingard/Monfries do the rest.

I don't know if he can do that.

 

[Seanybruz]

I don't know if he can do that.

 

[*PAF]

Good to see there are people flying the flag and I don't have to do a Pittard with Butcher as well.

 

[RossFC]

*John Butcher AFL Goal involvements Round 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15, 2014 not found*

 

[*PAF]

Gee he does bring other players into the game. If those highlights had been about other players there would be immediates all round from some posters.
Talia on Butch meant Westhoff was able to run amok in that game.

 

[PA88]

are you able to have a decent discussion without being a rude prick? You might wanna have a go at that

Others were trying to have a decent discussion in the earlier pages but any mention that Butcher may not be the third tall we have hoped he would be because of his set-shot kick was responded with sly sarcastic comments using words such as stupid. For what? For not having faith in Butcher being the third tall? Where were you when those responses had been fired first?

I'm not even against Butcher.

 

[Forzaport]

Most of the disparaging comments leveled at Butcher in the previous pages have been wide of the mark and pointed out appropriately.

It's an absolute myth that Shaw and Harvery are on par of even ahead of Butcher at the moment.

 

[raman]

I'd bring in Shaw before Butcher at this point in time purely because I think Butch's confidence is at an all time low at the moment, and Shaw while raw is running around looking like a million bucks. This in no way means Shaw is actually ahead development-wise, just that he represents a more interesting risk at this point in time.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Gee he does bring other players into the game. If those highlights had been about other players there would be immediates all round from some posters.
Talia on Butch meant Westhoff was able to run amok in that game.

Exactly.

If Shaw came in and his first game was like Butch's Showdown, there would be immediates all over this board.

Butch did it in his 2nd to last AFL game and not a single person on this board was calling for him to get dropped. Then after one quiet game against the Kangaroos where the delivery was awful, he's back on the chopping block.

Put Butcher in the side in every game we've played Sam Gray or Jake Neade, and we'd see a lot more of that sort of performance, and we'd be a much, much more dangerous side.

To PA88 , if all you're doing is playing devils advocate, i'll accept that but i'll need you to accept that opposition coaches will infact put a good defender on Butcher (and take one away from Schulz or Westhoff). As you can see Adelaide had their best defender on him for a lot of that game.

 

[Pedro59]

*John Butcher AFL Goal involvements Round 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15, 2014 not found*

And in the highlights posted there were also no marks as well ?
I agree that there is merit in playing him if he can kick straight but he still isn't is he
In close games shaking shots can be demoralising
and momentum killers
Can he get some professional sports psyche advice ?
I do agree with the guts of this thread that we need a third tall but unfortunately I have lost faith in Butch controlling his mental demons and look forward to some one else stepping up
Imagine if Schultz was as bad a kick where we would be
Oh but he is still good for structure
Oh but he brings others in to the game
Umm no if Shultz was as bad a kick as butch we would have lost heaps more games

Is there anything wrong with a supporter simply wanting more than he is offering right now

Ken is no fool and I believe patience will run out after this year

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Josh Jenkins' resume is pretty much tall guy who crumbs goals from spillages at the back of the pack and the camries adore him.

 

[El_Scorcho]

And in the highlights posted there were also no marks as well ?

He took 3 marks in that game.

In the game where he was apparently "worst on ground" against North, he took 6 marks.

We're still a better side when the third tall plays, and at the moment he's still leading the pack.

 

[PA88]

Exactly.

If Shaw came in and his first game was like Butch's Showdown, there would be immediates all over this board.

Butch did it in his 2nd to last AFL game and not a single person on this board was calling for him to get dropped. Then after one quiet game against the Kangaroos where the delivery was awful, he's back on the chopping block.

Put Butcher in the side in every game we've played Sam Gray or Jake Neade, and we'd see a lot more of that sort of performance, and we'd be a much, much more dangerous side.

To PA88 , if all you're doing is playing devils advocate, i'll accept that but i'll need you to accept that opposition coaches will infact put a good defender on Butcher (and take one away from Schulz or Westhoff). As you can see Adelaide had their best defender on him for a lot of that game.

I'm not playing any games.

Did Carlton, Adelaide, and North each play their best defender on Butcher or did they play their most suited defender after considering who to best match up on Schulz?

Why would Hinkley drop Butcher after the North game after he clunked 6 marks?

 

[brad the brain]

ATM lacking a tall forward and 2 tall back menback men

 

[tribey]

Don't get on now.

The wagon was full last week.

 

[raman]

Yeah nah our forward structure as it is is clearly just fine.

 

[chachi11]

I like it when Schulz marks on the wing and Westhoff is down back, it leaves us with...um...

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I'd like to read the case for a second tall forward.

 

[Portia]

I'd like to read the case for a second tall forward.

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