THE controversial issue

[No 1 Draft Pick]

DO NOT RESORT TO VIOLENCE UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS FULLY

General consensus from the thread yesterday was the Crows are mid table (6-12) team for the next couple or years. We certainly dont appear a serious premiership threat in 2005-2007. After 2007 things are certainly harder to predict due a large number of variables- trading/drafting/development/injuries etc

I passionately love the Crows but am also an objective person re where we are at as a footy club - we desperately need quality youth - the CREAM of youngsters - somthing we havent picked up for a helluva of a number of years. I am NOT necessarily proposing we do the following but lets look at how the AFL system 'rewards' a mediocre year. After Round 4, 2005 there is a reasonable chance we will be 0-4 with 4 very hard games to start. The finals are realistically almost out of reach especially if we drop another couple of games in the next month.

We agree that after 2005 there may be a big clean out - therefore why not prioritise and play youth and all the questionable players for the remainder of the minor round to ascertain excactly who has a future with the club - weed as many duds as possible post-2005 season. Give Mc Leod/Roo etc lesser roles to lengthen their careers

The effect may be we finish bottom 4 - possibly bottom 2 (assume Hawks wooden spooners). IF we win 5 games or less in the year we get the priority pick. What impact would this have on our team in 2006:

Draft picks say 2 and 4, 20, 36 etc
PSD draft pick 2

What could we do with these:

Draft pick 2 - get 2nd best youngster in land come draft time

Draft pick 4 - give to Port for Chad Cornes who decides he wants to return 'home' to the Crows

Draft pick 20 - give to Weagles for Waters who wants to come home - Weagles will deal for the best available pick so unless Port give up their first round draft pick he comes to the Crows

PSD - get Cooney to put a big price on his head - 100k over market and declare his intention to return home to SA - he should walk to the Crows

All of a sudden come 2006 we have Chad Cornes, Beau Waters, Adam Cooney AND the 2nd best youngster in the land - in reality the names may be different but its THE QUALITY that is the issue. Finishing near the bottow gives some HUGE ADVANTAGES

And in 2006 all of a sudden we are probably a top 4 team again with a shot for the premiership - thats the difference 3-4 absolute quality players adds to the team

Welsh Hentschel Scuback
Edwards Cornes Johncock
Reilly Ricuitto Cooney
Waters Mc Gregor Goodwin
Bassett Rutten Hart

Biglands Thompson Mc Leod

Int Hudson/Wood, Watts, Bode, Begley with the 2nd draft pick developing under Stewart in the SANFL (as well as Gibbs, and other draft picks from this year)


Its a QUICK FIX - is there any point finishing 8-13 when the bottom 2/3 teams get such a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE come trading (ie threat of PSD) /drafting and PSD picks.

As I said I am not saying I agree with this but its certainly a qucik fix to get the Crows back into contention.

A question for other Crows fans - would you prefer ONE BAD YEAR in 2005 to bottom out finishing 14/15th, weed out 6-8 cr@p players at the end of the year and then GAIN some absolute QUALITY at the end of the year which could automatically put us back into contention - or would you prefer steady as she goes and try to gradually build back up over the next 3-4 years to be in contention whilst finishing approx 7-13th for the next 3 years ???

Its a controversial issue

 

[conVINCEd]

I think a lot of us on this board went through something similar during this season, when it looked like we might be eligible for PP, if we lost our last eight games or something. I'm pretty sure I would have posted something similar to yours, but its really all pie in the sky stuff.

The bottom line is that picking up players of that quality in one off-season is simply fantasy - it won't happen. We have to accept that we simply need time and hard work to make our club a power on the field again.

I wouldn't mind having picks #2 and #4 in the draft, because our talent pool of youngsters desperately needs a boost, but we simply have too good a team to do so, IMO, and there is no way Neil would deliberately lose games.

And, just for the record, if we ever did have Chad Cornes on our team, I'd play him on the ball.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I think a lot of us on this board went through something similar during this season, when it looked like we might be eligible for PP, if we lost our last eight games or something. I'm pretty sure I would have posted something similar to yours, but its really all pie in the sky stuff.

The bottom line is that picking up players of that quality in one off-season is simply fantasy - it won't happen. We have to accept that we simply need time and hard work to make our club a power on the field again.

I wouldn't mind having picks #2 and #4 in the draft, because our talent pool of youngsters desperately needs a boost, but we simply have too good a team to do so, IMO, and there is no way Neil would deliberately lose games.

And, just for the record, if we ever did have Chad Cornes on our team, I'd play him on the ball.

In our lengthy rebuilding process, if we swap a top 10 pick for any player I will be very p8ssed off. The exception would be for J Brown or Riewoldt but that will never happen.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

DO NOT RESORT TO VIOLENCE UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS FULLY

General consensus from the thread yesterday was the Crows are mid table (6-12) team for the next couple or years. We certainly dont appear a serious premiership threat in 2005-2007. After 2007 things are certainly harder to predict due a large number of variables- trading/drafting/development/injuries etc

I passionately love the Crows but am also an objective person re where we are at as a footy club - we desperately need quality youth - the CREAM of youngsters - somthing we havent picked up for a helluva of a number of years. I am NOT necessarily proposing we do the following but lets look at how the AFL system 'rewards' a mediocre year. After Round 4, 2005 there is a reasonable chance we will be 0-4 with 4 very hard games to start. The finals are realistically almost out of reach especially if we drop another couple of games in the next month.

We agree that after 2005 there may be a big clean out - therefore why not prioritise and play youth and all the questionable players for the remainder of the minor round to ascertain excactly who has a future with the club - weed as many duds as possible post-2005 season. Give Mc Leod/Roo etc lesser roles to lengthen their careers

The effect may be we finish bottom 4 - possibly bottom 2 (assume Hawks wooden spooners). IF we win 5 games or less in the year we get the priority pick. What impact would this have on our team in 2006:

Draft picks say 2 and 4, 20, 36 etc
PSD draft pick 2

What could we do with these:

Draft pick 2 - get 2nd best youngster in land come draft time

Draft pick 4 - give to Port for Chad Cornes who decides he wants to return 'home' to the Crows

Draft pick 20 - give to Weagles for Waters who wants to come home - Weagles will deal for the best available pick so unless Port give up their first round draft pick he comes to the Crows

PSD - get Cooney to put a big price on his head - 100k over market and declare his intention to return home to SA - he should walk to the Crows

All of a sudden come 2006 we have Chad Cornes, Beau Waters, Adam Cooney AND the 2nd best youngster in the land - in reality the names may be different but its THE QUALITY that is the issue. Finishing near the bottow gives some HUGE ADVANTAGES

And in 2006 all of a sudden we are probably a top 4 team again with a shot for the premiership - thats the difference 3-4 absolute quality players adds to the team

Welsh Hentschel Scuback
Edwards Cornes Johncock
Reilly Ricuitto Cooney
Waters Mc Gregor Goodwin
Bassett Rutten Hart

Biglands Thompson Mc Leod

Int Hudson/Wood, Watts, Bode, Begley with the 2nd draft pick developing under Stewart in the SANFL (as well as Gibbs, and other draft picks from this year)


Its a QUICK FIX - is there any point finishing 8-13 when the bottom 2/3 teams get such a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE come trading (ie threat of PSD) /drafting and PSD picks.

As I said I am not saying I agree with this but its certainly a qucik fix to get the Crows back into contention.

A question for other Crows fans - would you prefer ONE BAD YEAR in 2005 to bottom out finishing 14/15th, weed out 6-8 cr@p players at the end of the year and then GAIN some absolute QUALITY at the end of the year which could automatically put us back into contention - or would you prefer steady as she goes and try to gradually build back up over the next 3-4 years to be in contention whilst finishing approx 7-13th for the next 3 years ???

Its a controversial issue

Too be honest with you mate, I don't think one bad year will be enough. We need at least 2. Especially considering our dislike of the trade process. I still don't believe there is a quick fixe to our problem. We need to place a higher emphasis on developing our own young talent. Which means, to draft young talent we either have to finish around the bottom for a couple of years or trade aggressively.

 

[Mad Dog]

As long as my ass points to the ground I will never agree to throwing a season to get PDPs. Have a bit of ********ing pride for ********s sake - something none of those sorry ********ing losers Richmond/Hawthorn/Bulldogs have.
We have a short but proud history and we will be back as a force. One of the reasons I raised the issues I did yesterday was to remind people that there are no quick fixes, there will be no massive clean out at the end of 2005, and that we and other members and supporters need to support the club and be patient.
FFS....we're not even at draft day yet and already we're talking about tanking a season......IMO anyone who doesn't have enough passion to support this club through the thin as well as the thick can ******** off now, buy 15 other scarves...and just pick one each week according to who you think might win.............Don't be coming to high 5 me at the MCG next time we win a flag.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

As long as my ass points to the ground I will never agree to throwing a season to get PDPs. Have a bit of ********ing pride for ********s sake - something none of those sorry ********ing losers Richmond/Hawthorn/Bulldogs have.
We have a short but proud history and we will be back as a force. One of the reasons I raised the issues I did yesterday was to remind people that there are no quick fixes, there will be no massive clean out at the end of 2005, and that we and other members and supporters need to support the club and be patient.
FFS....we're not even at draft day yet and already we're talking about tanking a season......IMO anyone who doesn't have enough passion to support this club through the thin as well as the thick can ******** off now, buy 15 other scarves...and just pick one each week according to who you think might win.............Don't be coming to high 5 me at the MCG next time we win a flag.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about tanking. We were saying to obtain quality youngsters you need to finish around the bottom or trade aggressively????

 

[Mad Dog]

I don't recall anyone saying anything about tanking. We were saying to obtain quality youngsters you need to finish around the bottom or trade aggressively????

this point was raised a couple of days ago also and thats why I am reacting badly.........part of #1DP's post reads....

".........After Round 4, 2005 there is a reasonable chance we will be 0-4 with 4 very hard games to start. The finals are realistically almost out of reach especially if we drop another couple of games in the next month.

We agree that after 2005 there may be a big clean out - therefore why not prioritise and play youth and all the questionable players for the remainder of the minor round to ascertain excactly who has a future with the club - weed as many duds as possible post-2005 season. Give Mc Leod/Roo etc lesser roles........"

...I wouldn't call West Coast here, Collingwood away, Papsie's here, and Sydney away a nightmare start to the season.....
.....embarking on playing "youth" at round 4 is tanking a season...
.....who of the older players will you drop to make way for this "youth" when two thirds of the side is already youth.....
....how do you expect a group of youngsters to mentally sustain a season..(or a career for that matter) when they are thrown to the wolves at round 4 ????...How do you expect them to keep faith while they're getting thrashed week in week out when the club and it's supporters lost faith at round 4????
Giving McLeod and The Captain a lesser role at round 4.....is bloody ridiculous and something that Roo or Craig would not contemplate.
Giving McLeod and The Captain a lesser role at round 4 = Tanking a season.

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Mad Dog - steady down mate. I am just raising an issue and value others opinions.

Springchoke - in terms of trading agressively - I am not sure how we can do this successfully. Our best players are old (not tradeable) our most attractive other trades (Johncock, Thompson etc) we cant afford to give up. We should now be committed to keeping our first and second round draft picks also and not trading them so I cant work out how we can trade ourself successfully out of our predicament

Sorry I missed this thread earlier in the year - im sure a number of these issues may have already been explored.

Like I said I am not condoning this policy - I was asking other Crows supporters whether one bad year could be justified in their mind if we could then turn it around alot faster. I realise people will have very different (and passionate) views on this

Cheers

 

[Mad Dog]

Mad Dog - steady down mate. I am just raising an issue and value others opinions.

And I'm just giving my opinion....

Like I said I am not condoning this policy - I was asking other Crows supporters whether one bad year could be justified in their mind if we could then turn it around alot faster.

and my answer is no...........the reason I put is more forceably is because this is the second time in 3 days this issue has been raised.......and I for one as a member of the club since day 1, will not tolerate anything short of 100% effort from all involved at the club, all the time. Sure at round 18 when you're 2 and 16....play some yougsters.....but not at round 4.
I laugh at Footscray for their 1 flag in 80 years.....lets not invest in the mentality that helped get them there.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

this point was raised a couple of days ago also and thats why I am reacting badly.........part of #1DP's post reads....

".........After Round 4, 2005 there is a reasonable chance we will be 0-4 with 4 very hard games to start. The finals are realistically almost out of reach especially if we drop another couple of games in the next month.

We agree that after 2005 there may be a big clean out - therefore why not prioritise and play youth and all the questionable players for the remainder of the minor round to ascertain excactly who has a future with the club - weed as many duds as possible post-2005 season. Give Mc Leod/Roo etc lesser roles........"

...I wouldn't call West Coast here, Collingwood away, Papsie's here, and Sydney away a nightmare start to the season.....
.....embarking on playing "youth" at round 4 is tanking a season...
.....who of the older players will you drop to make way for this "youth" when two thirds of the side is already youth.....
....how do you expect a group of youngsters to mentally sustain a season..(or a career for that matter) when they are thrown to the wolves at round 4 ????...How do you expect them to keep faith while they're getting thrashed week in week out when the club and it's supporters lost faith at round 4????
Giving McLeod and The Captain a lesser role at round 4.....is bloody ridiculous and something that Roo or Craig would not contemplate.
Giving McLeod and The Captain a lesser role at round 4 = Tanking a season.

Woops my mistake, apologies MD.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Whilst we should never look at throwing games to get earlier draft picks, we really need to have an eye for the future by playing the youngsters in more important roles in 2005.

 

[Mad Dog]

now that I've calmed down... ...I'm not having a go at anyone specifically about this topic....I just react very badly everytime someone even suggests not playing our best team and trying 100% to win each game.
So while I accept this is a hypothetical proposition.......we should rebuild the hard way and the dignified way.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

As long as my ass points to the ground I will never agree to throwing a season to get PDPs. Have a bit of ********ing pride for ********s sake - something none of those sorry ********ing losers Richmond/Hawthorn/Bulldogs have.
We have a short but proud history and we will be back as a force. One of the reasons I raised the issues I did yesterday was to remind people that there are no quick fixes, there will be no massive clean out at the end of 2005, and that we and other members and supporters need to support the club and be patient.
FFS....we're not even at draft day yet and already we're talking about tanking a season......IMO anyone who doesn't have enough passion to support this club through the thin as well as the thick can ******** off now, buy 15 other scarves...and just pick one each week according to who you think might win.............Don't be coming to high 5 me at the MCG next time we win a flag.

Couldnt agree more MD. No more quick fixes. BUT still try and be optermistic
next season, might be a bit painful, but carry the faith.

I bet none of the players go onto the field thinking "Gee we cant win this one"

Passion - show some passion

 

[Rave Slave]

The key to a football club building tradition and success is consistency.
Approach every year like you are going to make the finals.
Look at Kevin Sheedy and the Essendon football club. Every year they are rated a chance to win the flag (inflated opinions from football 'experts' yes but still they are rated this highly.) Sheedy approaches football believing that the fans deserve to have a side out on the park year in year out that - whilst not always being the one who will win the flag, is still a chance on its best day to beat any side in the competition. For that I admire him.

Whilst we do need a serious rebuild we cant approach this year with the attitude of throwing games and the like. We must approach this like any other year - besides if the ball bounces the right way it can mean the difference between your team being 4-0 and 0-4. Don't write our boys off yet - i think you might actually be surprised that we have a couple of gems in the rough at our club that not many acknowledge very much. While in all honesty i don't think we'll make the finals, i do believe we will snatch at least 4 home games this upcoming season against more fancied opponents. Throw in 2 or 3 away wins against clubs more lowly ranked than us (eg bulldogs or the hawkers) and we already have nigh on ruled out the spoon and eliminated PP's.

Have some pride in your club - we want to be the new carlton - going a hundred odd years without a wooden spoon. Not the new age fremantle who uses a kitchen drawer instead of a trophy cabinet to hold all its wooden spoons.

 

[-VC-]

I never, EVER want to see Adelaide have a priority draft pick. Pride should be of the highest importance at all times when we're struggling.
With that said, I would hope Rutten, Hentschel and Reilly play at least 15 games each this year and maybe even Hudson too. I'm sure there are more, but these four are the youngsters I have the highest hopes too. Doughty, Shirley, Massie, Ladhams etc. should have their futures decided by Round 10. If they're not performing play them in the SANFL for the rest of the year, then delist. We can't waste spots on the team in 2005 for guys that have had their chance. I think Massie could potentially shine through. He had a dud season this year but could very well come back strong this year.
And after all that, your hypothetical forward line is too short. Personally, I wouldn't play Schuey, Stiffy and Edwards in the same forward line.

 

[Alex99]

As long as my ass points to the ground I will never agree to throwing a season to get PDPs. Have a bit of ********ing pride for ********s sake - something none of those sorry ********ing losers Richmond/Hawthorn/Bulldogs have.
We have a short but proud history and we will be back as a force. One of the reasons I raised the issues I did yesterday was to remind people that there are no quick fixes, there will be no massive clean out at the end of 2005, and that we and other members and supporters need to support the club and be patient.
FFS....we're not even at draft day yet and already we're talking about tanking a season......IMO anyone who doesn't have enough passion to support this club through the thin as well as the thick can ******** off now, buy 15 other scarves...and just pick one each week according to who you think might win.............Don't be coming to high 5 me at the MCG next time we win a flag.

100% agree with Mad Dog, it irritates the hell out of me when so-called supporters start calling for the club to go after priority pick.






****1000 posts…. all congratulate me for a wonderful gorilla of posting***

 

[Eggzoi]

While a PP would be the best way to rebuild, I would never ever want the Crows to get, or aim for one.
EXCEPT, yes, if we've won 5 games for the year, and coming last, but winning the last game of the season would see up move up the ladder, lose the PP and only have pick 2 instead of 1 & 3, I would be happy with a loss, I wouldn't want them to go out there to lose but I'd be happier if they did. That said, I doubt and hope the Crows will ever be in that position.

 

[Mad Dog]

100% agree with Mad Dog, it irritates the hell out of me when so-called supporters start calling for the club to go after priority pick.






****1000 posts…. all congratulate me for a wonderful gorilla of posting***

Hold that keyboard aloft.........wave to the crowd.......kiss the badge......and put your head down - there's still plenty to be done !!

 

[Wood_Duck]

The point many of us are missing here is, we are not going to have to throw games.

 

[Alex99]

The point many of us are missing here is, we are not going to have to throw games.

Says you, l honesty believe that we may not be a contender next year but with the proper player management we can still make the top 8


Over the next five or so years the side will be built around Kenny Mac and Trent Hentschel CHF and CHB the “on baller brigade” will not be our “gold” as it was during the 90’s and now with the current stars we have.

 

[Alex99]

Hold that keyboard aloft.........wave to the crowd.......kiss the badge......and put your head down - there's still plenty to be done !!

One quote fits this occasion beautifully

“I would like to thank my mum and dad and especially my parents” Scott Hodges 1990

 

[Wood_Duck]

Says you, l honesty believe that we may not be a contender next year but with the proper player management we can still make the top 8


Over the next five or so years the side will be built around Kenny Mac and Trent Hentschel CHF and CHB the “on baller brigade” will not be our “gold” as it was during the 90’s and now with the current stars we have.

You are referring to the next five years. I'm referring to next year and maybe the next.

 

[Alex99]

You are referring to the next five years. I'm referring to next year and maybe the next.

I was referring to next year as well, and beyond. We can make the finals next season and then after that as well, but player management has to go right for it to happen

 

[baaaallllll]

....I just react very badly everytime someone even suggests not playing our best team and trying 100% to win each game.
.

I agree that we should always give 100% but if the season is gone I would not have a problem with playing younger players instead of fringe older players. Hence not necessarily playing our best team.

I hate losing and sucking, would not recommend it to anyone but at least there is a consilation prize in draft picks.

 

[crowsarethebest]

We shouldnt try to lose games