The end is nigh...

Coathanger

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I’ll give you controversy.
Trade Sicily for 2 first round picks!

Be bold boys and do it.
 

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Collins-Langford-Ayres

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This thread isn't meant to be disrespectful or nasty, however, the reality of AFL football and our current ladder position in both the seniors and Box Hill is a massive indicator that change is needed.

Some of these are obvious, some may be controversial, but again, let's not get nasty as these guys have been part of the Hawthorn family.

Big Rough - 4 time premiershipe player, legend! Retired
Burgers - unbelievable trade, unbelievable player, most games by an Indigenous player when he overtakes Goodes. Retires
Poppy- ultimtes team man an warrior. Absolute team man and warrior. Still an elite pressure forward however find less of the ball and less scoreboard impact. Retired
Shoey - premiership player and a solid soldier. Commitment cant be questioned however never quite lived up to his first round rating. Retired
Mirra - great story, well deserved games however, as Clarko would say, not part of our next premiership charge. Would love to see him go back and captain Box Hill
Miles - project selection who has shown glimpses however never given an extended run. With our current position do we play the list a nd wee what we have? 10 weeks to save his career after being put up for trade last year
Hanrahan - got Box Hill into GF and has given his all. However, after watching many Box Hill games he lacks endurance, pressure isn't elite and doesn't get enough of the ball.

I'm sure there will be trades galore but these are initial thoughts, lets just be respectful with commentary.
Would keep Burgers if he stays fit and add Langers to your list instead.
 

lickmerocks

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you know how they got into that position? throwing away good young kids (Josh Kennedy - FF of the decade) for hasbeen stars like Judd and throwing big money at Kouta was the start of their downward spiral, get some perspective, list management and drafting matter.....
Getting caught cheating may have cost them a fair bit also.
 

lickmerocks

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We have stagnated with a bunch of blokes that have lived the dream for a long time that we kept around for depth that we are now hoping can play a consistent role when they can’t.

1.Schoenmakers 10 years for 100 games
2.O’Brien 8 years for 50.
3.Brand 8 years for 50 games

We have kept faith with premiership heroes that for whatever reason look tired and have stagnated and unable to go to the next level consistently in
Smith Breust and Gunston.

Throw in some ageing warriors in Burgoyne, Poppy, Roughead and Birchall all on big money and coming to the end very fast and it’s the perfect storm.

We will really need a massive clean up of our list ASAP to begin our next push for silverware.
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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Need to be careful not making too many changes and really dropping down table.
Would rather that for a few years and let our drafting team have some real picks to use, than sit 6 - 12 for five years.

In reality, we should have done that over the past few years and then go after guys like Wings, than the other way around. Oh for a Cripps and a Curnow !!
 

Davo-27

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We have stagnated with a bunch of blokes that have lived the dream for a long time that we kept around for depth that we are now hoping can play a consistent role when they can’t.

1.Schoenmakers 10 years for 100 games
2.O’Brien 8 years for 50.
3.Brand 8 years for 50 games

We have kept faith with premiership heroes that for whatever reason look tired and have stagnated and unable to go to the next level consistently in
Smith Breust and Gunston.

Throw in some ageing warriors in Burgoyne, Poppy, Roughead and Birchall all on big money and coming to the end very fast and it’s the perfect storm.

We will really need a massive clean up of our list ASAP to begin our next push for silverware.
we already had a massive clean up last year, it shows how bad our list was when we could drop another 15 from the list in the next 2 years, it reminds me of how bad our list was at the end of 2004, well not that bad, but it was getting there, mostly its just old warriors passing their prime this time around.
 

Gerry19

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Yeah same. It’s actually depressing watching port with Burton. Will go down as Clarkos biggest mistake. Seeing where we are now makes that plus the drafting of Mirra and Mohr absolutely mind boggling.
 

dcutter

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I don’t at all think it’s doom and gloom.

In saying that am well keen for clarko and co to take a sledgehammer to the list.

A glance over geelongs recruiting over the past few years and what is abundantly clear is just how well they have done out of their rookie lists, state leagues and mature age recruiting.
Plucked Kelly, Stewart and Blicavs out of no where. 2 all Australians and a b@f winner.
Got Dalhaus, Rohan and Menegola for essentially nothing.

I can’t recall the last decent player we plucked off a rookie list. Honestly feels like Bruest back in 09’ was the last time we had a win here. We need to get better here.
We’re clearly a few men short of a good team - and a good team it can be but we absolutely need to nail this draft and trade period in the manner of 09, 10. Last year was decent but absolutely needs to be backed up this year.

I don’t feel we’re that far off at all in an increasingly tight completion.
 

Spursfan

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I don’t at all think it’s doom and gloom.

In saying that am well keen for clarko and co to take a sledgehammer to the list.

A glance over geelongs recruiting over the past few years and what is abundantly clear is just how well they have done out of their rookie lists, state leagues and mature age recruiting.
Plucked Kelly, Stewart and Blicavs out of no where. 2 all Australians and a b@f winner.
Got Dalhaus, Rohan and Menegola for essentially nothing.

I can’t recall the last decent player we plucked off a rookie list. Honestly feels like Bruest back in 09’ was the last time we had a win here. We need to get better here.
We’re clearly a few men short of a good team - and a good team it can be but we absolutely need to nail this draft and trade period in the manner of 09, 10. Last year was decent but absolutely needs to be backed up this year.

I don’t feel we’re that far off at all in an increasingly tight completion.
James Cousins ?
 

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Spursfan

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Would rather that for a few years and let our drafting team have some real picks to use, than sit 6 - 12 for five years.

In reality, we should have done that over the past few years and then go after guys like Wings, than the other way around. Oh for a Cripps and a Curnow !!
We shouldn't have gone after Mitchell and JOM as well ?
 

Beandip

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Yeah same. It’s actually depressing watching port with Burton. Will go down as Clarkos biggest mistake. Seeing where we are now makes that plus the drafting of Mirra and Mohr absolutely mind boggling.
Keep in mind Mirra and Mohr cost a bag of chips at most... and were there to provide cheap depth and leadership around the club. They were never planned to lead a premiership charge. These kind of moves also free up more cap space to chase other quality.

As for Burton, I don't see him becoming anything more than a reliable contributor, we replaced him with a 4th round pick (Scrimshaw - who I feel has a higher ceiling also), whereas if we can get Wingard's body right, he is Cyril-esque, can absolutely turn and win games off his own boot. There was a period a couple of years ago when he was comfortably in the top 10 players in the competition. I don't think Clarko will be second guessing his strategy one iota at this stage.
 

Gerry19

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Both fair calls, I just reckon it was a mistake. With already the oldest list in comp we didn’t need to draft two 30 year old rookies.
 

Lord_Espos

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We will see about that at seasons end. What do you consider 'down table'?
14 or lower perhaps. Or trying for first pick that would be a disaster. I still think you can rebuild list without tanking dramatically.
 

MasterSamurai

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The BIG clean out time was when Dunstall called for it on OTC in 2017 after our horrific effort against saints in launy. I don’t care what the so called experts say or think but I do listen intently when the Chiefton talks all things Hawthorn. He basically said that the loss against the saints should be a good thing for clarko to realise it ain’t going to happen with this list anymore and that the club should be looking at renewing the profile of the list ASAP! that was more than two years ago and we’re way too committed for the ‘Near’ future to do this sort of s big cleanout from here on in imo..
No need to panic, couple of smart trades and a top line draftee to replace the retirees and the transition will be a lot smoother.
The problem right now is that there’s really no one playing well enough to push the likes of poppy to depth option.
Rough Birch silk Schoey are on last legs with miles Mirra and one of tob/brand to get the chop. Only trade out a good player (I.e smith ) if it nets back a highish draft pick.
I also see no need for speculative b- to c+ types either unless it’s a very young option like scrimshaw.
 

lickmerocks

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The BIG clean out time was when Dunstall called for it on OTC in 2017 after our horrific effort against saints in launy. I don’t care what the so called experts say or think but I do listen intently when the Chiefton talks all things Hawthorn. He basically said that the loss against the saints should be a good thing for clarko to realise it ain’t going to happen with this list anymore and that the club should be looking at renewing the profile of the list ASAP! that was more than two years ago and we’re way too committed for the ‘Near’ future to do this sort of s big cleanout from here on in imo..
No need to panic, couple of smart trades and a top line draftee to replace the retirees and the transition will be a lot smoother.
The problem right now is that there’s really no one playing well enough to push the likes of poppy to depth option.
Rough Birch silk Schoey are on last legs with miles Mirra and one of tob/brand to get the chop. Only trade out a good player (I.e smith ) if it nets back a highish draft pick.
I also see no need for speculative b- to c+ types either unless it’s a very young option like scrimshaw.

Decent post. We are still caught between staying relevant/competitive and going to the bottom and doing a full rebuild.

When we get the mix right we will be back on track. At the moment the mix is still wrong.
 

bumsonseats

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So what are Geelong doing that we're not? They've been there or thereabouts since winning their last flag in 2011, and like us, they've had a high number of retirements in the intervening years. Looking at their current list, they won't be sliding down the ladder anytime soon.

When viewed through the Geelong prism, our lack of success this year, and the forecast of a finals drought for the next few years, is completely unacceptable.
Has another club been more kissed on the **** by Free Agency
 

Pessimistic

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we already had a massive clean up last year, it shows how bad our list was when we could drop another 15 from the list in the next 2 years, it reminds me of how bad our list was at the end of 2004, well not that bad, but it was getting there, mostly its just old warriors passing their prime this time around.
Some of those old warriors were vital in 2008
 

rogiebear93

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Both fair calls, I just reckon it was a mistake. With already the oldest list in comp we didn’t need to draft two 30 year old rookies.
What does it matter if they're temporary players? We drafted them because we needed them in that position, they're not older blokes we're relying on and can't get rid of.

Pick 43 in the rookie draft where we took Mohr has an outstanding average of 9 games played, and that's only because of Stewart Crameri making up for the 11 picks who never debuted.
 

rogiebear93

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So what are Geelong doing that we're not? They've been there or thereabouts since winning their last flag in 2011, and like us, they've had a high number of retirements in the intervening years. Looking at their current list, they won't be sliding down the ladder anytime soon.

When viewed through the Geelong prism, our lack of success this year, and the forecast of a finals drought for the next few years, is completely unacceptable.
One thing to note is that they did miss finals in 2015, before Dangerfield wanting to come home for much less than he was worth. That's why Geelong had to trade for him.

Aside from that, at the moment they have the benefit of not getting season ending injuries to their best player.

If I look at Geelong, and I ask myself who their best players are, I tend to reel off Dangerfield, Hawkins, Selwood, Ablett as part of that cohort.

Ablett is 35
Selwood is 31
Hawkins is 31
Dangerfield is 29

Hell, even Duncan is 28.

It's fitness that makes up the difference between Hawthorn and Geelong at the moment. Their list would be getting picked apart if they had the same interruptions from injury as we have.
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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What does it matter if they're temporary players? We drafted them because we needed them in that position, they're not older blokes we're relying on and can't get rid of.

Pick 43 in the rookie draft where we took Mohr has an outstanding average of 9 games played, and that's only because of Stewart Crameri making up for the 11 picks who never debuted.
Good point :thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
 

Phil McCreviss

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We had a midfield core that was once in a generation - Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Sewell.

We now have Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel on the rise. Interestingly none of those players are lethal users of the football - more accumulators. We are crying out for a player who can get 15-20 possessions and absolutely slice open opposition teams with precision. Might need to go to the draft for this as FA is slim pickings for this type of player. From what I've heard, we will be sourcing a KPF from FA and going to the draft for a couple of elite users.

Despite what other's think, our backline has been nothing short of amazing this season. Not much work required there, more tweaking of the existing system. I don't think we are that far off getting back to a 15+ win season with some minor changes. Having Mitchell sit out this season may end up being beneficial for us in the long run as it's helped us expedite decisions on fringe players.
 
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