The end is nigh...

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Wandering Hawk

All Australian
May 19, 2014
733
1,358
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Hawthorn
End imho for Birchall, Mohr, Mirra, Miles, Puopolo, Roughead, Schoenmakers, (Langford). Maybe end for Smith (trade). Keep Burgoyne as we lack forward depth, and Stratton stays, as both he's contracted and we lack defensive depth.

that's 8-9 going.
free agent/trade in 3-4... Cogs, Patton, Greenwood, +-?
use 4-6 picks.

2020 list:
Defenders:
best 7 - Frawley, Stratton, Sicily, TOB, Hardwick, Impey, Scrimshaw.
depth - Morrison, Brand, Glass
kids - CJ, Greaves, Kosi

Mids:
best 7 - Mitchell, O'Meara, Cogs*, Worpel, Shiels, Scully, Henderson
depth - Greenwood*, Howe, Cousins
kids - Golds, Jones

Forwards :
best 7 - Breust, Gunston, Wingard, Ceglar, Lewis, Moore, Patton*
depth - Burgoyne, Mitchington, Nash
kids - Walker, Ross, Hanrahan

Add 4-6 more picks of kids from 2019 draft and there's your future list. Very young team in full rebuild mode.
 

The Chad and I

Senior List
Nov 13, 2018
204
647
AFL Club
Hawthorn
So what are Geelong doing that we're not? They've been there or thereabouts since winning their last flag in 2011, and like us, they've had a high number of retirements in the intervening years. Looking at their current list, they won't be sliding down the ladder anytime soon.

When viewed through the Geelong prism, our lack of success this year, and the forecast of a finals drought for the next few years, is completely unacceptable.
They finished 11th last season.
We finished 4th.

Nobody predicted that they would be heading the table this season.
 

Brant

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 6, 2009
12,458
16,771
Padbury; WA
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People wanting to retire off Popeye are mad. If Cyril hadn't have walked out then they'd still be running riot. Maybe, instead of retiring him off & having ZERO pressure forwards, we look to complement/support him by getting another one & let him fight to keep his position.

We're going to retire/de-list about 8x other guys, it isn't like we need the List Spot. And, he's on relatively low money so it isn't like we need the cash...
 

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tige19

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 13, 2003
18,971
18,442
Mar-a-lago
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If ever a sporting club needed a mass clean out it’s ours.. Would love to see Clarko go in full sicko mode and make 10 or so door knocks with players, he has been insanely bold many times before.
 

Mojo

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 18, 2007
6,738
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Carlton bloody should be closer they’ve been rebuilding often enough
What an ignorant twat Carey is.. Carlton's LIST might be closer, but with a round-a-bout of coaches and administration, they won't get too close.

Let's just omit Hawthorn's success, GOAT coach Alistair Clarkson and professional off field board and staff cause those aren't factors in winning a premiership, are they Wayne?
 

Mitchell Madness

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 17, 2006
19,567
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???
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So what are Geelong doing that we're not? They've been there or thereabouts since winning their last flag in 2011, and like us, they've had a high number of retirements in the intervening years. Looking at their current list, they won't be sliding down the ladder anytime soon.

When viewed through the Geelong prism, our lack of success this year, and the forecast of a finals drought for the next few years, is completely unacceptable.
They had the luxury of having a couple of players hold their clubs ransom to go there for starters.

They are playing confident footy, rather than good footy. They simply are carefree, and just enjoying the game at present. If they get a few tough matches in a row, I think they're susceptible to falling down.

I do wonder if the media treated them with the same crap they did us, if opposition teams would attack more. For the best part of 15 yrs, their opponents sit back waiting for the inevitable onslaught, and the few times they are challenged, they either limp across the line, or fall in a heap
 

George Zip

Senior List
Jun 4, 2009
201
278
AFL Club
Hawthorn
They finished 11th last season.
We finished 4th.

Nobody predicted that they would be heading the table this season.
From Jake Niall’s article on the Hawks in today’s Age:

The trick will be to balance the necessary infusion of untried elite talent with the club’s longstanding commitment to winning in the present. Geelong, to date, are the only club to have navigated this modern maze.”
 

RoughysMullet

Club Legend
Feb 8, 2017
1,334
1,666
AFL Club
Hawthorn
So what are Geelong doing that we're not? They've been there or thereabouts since winning their last flag in 2011, and like us, they've had a high number of retirements in the intervening years. Looking at their current list, they won't be sliding down the ladder anytime soon.

When viewed through the Geelong prism, our lack of success this year, and the forecast of a finals drought for the next few years, is completely unacceptable.
Well, they got Dangerfield gifted to them for starters... perennial top 3 player in the league for free..
You’d have to say some good/lucky drafting and development too - Tim Kelly and Tom Stewart come to mind..
Also they’ve had no significant injuries this season which most other clubs have had..

I think we’re also capable of doing a mini rebuild without completely bottoming out..
1) Retirements start with Roughy, Birch, Mirra and Shoey
2) Use all of our draft picks - maybe trade to get more picks if the right deal comes along
3) Find a way to bring Cogs, Patton and possibly poach another young mid and/or small pressure fwd without giving up anything too significant
This already puts us in a strong position for next season with Tom Mitchell returning...
 
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Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
Sep 13, 2000
68,110
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Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
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What an ignorant twat Carey is.. Carlton's LIST might be closer, but with a round-a-bout of coaches and administration, they won't get too close.

Let's just omit Hawthorn's success, GOAT coach Alistair Clarkson and professional off field board and staff cause those aren't factors in winning a premiership, are they Wayne?
You only had to witness what happened n carltons press conference to dispense with bolton, with its pathetic body language, to see theres plenty going wrong at carlton
 

caseman2

Team Captain
Mar 31, 2008
339
498
NYC
AFL Club
Hawthorn
This thread isn't meant to be disrespectful or nasty, however, the reality of AFL football and our current ladder position in both the seniors and Box Hill is a massive indicator that change is needed.

Some of these are obvious, some may be controversial, but again, let's not get nasty as these guys have been part of the Hawthorn family.

Big Rough - 4 time premiershipe player, legend! Retired
Burgers - unbelievable trade, unbelievable player, most games by an Indigenous player when he overtakes Goodes. Retires
Bicrhall - 4 time premiership player but where we are at, cant continue to carry a bloke who has been on the sidelines for 3 years. Hawks hall of fame.
Poppy- ultimtes team man an warrior. Absolute team man and warrior. Still an elite pressure forward however find less of the ball and less scoreboard impact. Retired
Shoey - premiership player and a solid soldier. Commitment cant be questioned however never quite lived up to his first round rating. Retired
Mirra - great story, well deserved games however, as Clarko would say, not part of our next premiership charge. Would love to see him go back and captain Box Hill
Miles - project selection who has shown glimpses however never given an extended run. With our current position do we play the list a nd wee what we have? 10 weeks to save his career after being put up for trade last year
Hanrahan - got Box Hill into GF and has given his all. However, after watching many Box Hill games he lacks endurance, pressure isn't elite and doesn't get enough of the ball.

I'm sure there will be trades galore but these are initial thoughts, lets just be respectful with commentary.
 
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Davo-27

Premiership Player
Sep 9, 2006
3,813
3,864
Northern Melb
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Carlton bloody should be closer they’ve been rebuilding often enough
you know how they got into that position? throwing away good young kids (Josh Kennedy - FF of the decade) for hasbeen stars like Judd and throwing big money at Kouta was the start of their downward spiral, get some perspective, list management and drafting matter.....anyway Carlton are a story of mis-management of salary-caps, draft picks and trades, run by self interest business men, recipe for disaster....

as for our list, it is not looking good

players not playing anywhere near their best and ageing:
Burgoyne - not getting as many possessions, missing goals he used to kick easily, has slowed down except for the odd burst here and there, fumbling morethan he ever has in his career
Roughead - dropping chest marks, struggling to get enough of the footy to kick enough goals to be relevant, reflexes have slowed, sometimes has a burst of energy but mostly tiring, not playing very well at BHH
Birchall - i have no idea, permanently injured
Smith - has always been an attacker with poor defence, but now he struggles to be an attacking weapon, has not kicked many goals this season, has not broken the lines often this season, gets caught and pressured too often this season and his lack of attacking power really makes it obvious that his defensive game is not good enough
Puopolo - used to be by far the best pressure player and tackler in the forw 50 in the AFL, which would make up for the fact he kicks less than 1 goal a game, used to fly for marks and set up team mates a lot for goals which was his game style, his performances now are not good enough.
Schoenmakers - has lived a charmed life in many ways, was given every chance as a tall defender even though he got outplayed regularly, won a premiership when moved forw which was necessary, turned into a reliable structural forw, but it seems he finally has lost favour with Clarko
Mohr - was a backup tall def for GWS, was recruited as a backup tall def for us and then did his knee and at 30+ doesnt seem to hold any value any more

players in limbo:
Howe - was recruited earlier than i expected in his draft year, has faultered as a half back being caught holding the ball too often, then went into the mid and showed some ability as a negating mid until he decided to fall on players, give away multiple 50m penalties and hit Cripps, on top of his poor form
Brand - has had a mixed career, plays a bunch of good games followed by horror games then a spell at BHH followed by good games and horror games, as a player he is too tall and not flexible enough, he also doesnt really intercept mark enough or win contests in the back half, he is just a back up
Minchington - picking him up was an interesting decision, but it doesnt seem to have worked out, he has yet to perform at BHH let alone be in contention for an AFL game.
Morrison - he could work his way out of limbo by lifting his work rate and upping his disposal count, otherwise he might be an almost made it type of player
Miles - the fact he is a similar size as when we recruited him 5 years ago is an issue, has speed and can run and carry, but is out of favour
Glass - in his first year he looked raw with potential, but as the years go on, he seems to get worse, his error count is staggering, now he is trying to make it as a mid, i have my doubts
Mirra - i like him as a 3rd up defender, he has a good attitude and the team like him, his disposal is a little off, but overall plays well, but is out of favour and getting past his prime
Pittonet - back up ruck, really good second tier ruckman, but probably not up to the standard of AFL football for a long career
TOB - getting his second chance at half back, looks ok but not sold yet

POSITIVES:
we have some good veterans performing this season, Frawley, McEvoy, Shiels, Breust, Gunston, Stratton, Scully, Henderson, Ceglar are all playing good to very good football, with the exception of a couple here and there who are temporarily under performing.

we have some talented players in our 21-27 age group, Wingard?, Mitchell, JOM, Impey, Sicily, Hardwick, Worpel, Scrimshaw, Lewis, which is the group we need to desperately build upon for the future of our great club.

and we have a group of unknown quantities, mostly late draft picks and rookies, which fall into 2 categories, THE GOOD: Cousins, Nash, Moore, Kosi, Ross, CJ, Jones, Greaves and THE DREADED POTENTIAL: Walker, Golds, Reeves, Hanrahan
 
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offtherails9

Club Legend
May 30, 2012
2,737
2,882
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AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree with most but I don't really see the sense of retiring Burgers for the sake of it. In interviews he sounds keen on keeping going if his body holds up and the club wants him to. Playing back pocket and directing the young guys back there is a win/win imo.
 
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