The end is nigh...

grumbleguts

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It's funny seeing people in this thread comparing us and geelong. You have to feel sorry for geelong supporters, they have to pretend each week that they like and are cheering for Dangerfield and Selwood. Poor bastards.
 

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Judd2Sewell

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It's funny seeing people in this thread comparing us and geelong. You have to feel sorry for geelong supporters, they have to pretend each week that they like and are cheering for Dangerfield and Selwood. Poor bastards.
You mean their 3 time premiership player and captain Selwood? Or Brownlow winning Danger?

Yeah I'm pretty sure that they don't have to pretend liking supporting them. C'mon now.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Yeah those people. And they are people. That's where the stats fall down.
You know them personally do you?

You know every Geelong supporter and know what they're thinking deep down as well?

Do you pretend to enjoy supporting Sicily, Puopolo? Did you pretend to enjoy supporting Lewis, Mitchell, etc.?

No to all of the above? Thought so.
 

rei154

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You know them personally do you?

You know every Geelong supporter and know what they're thinking deep down as well?

Do you pretend to enjoy supporting Sicily, Puopolo? Did you pretend to enjoy supporting Lewis, Mitchell, etc.?

No to all of the above? Thought so.
I feel like there was a hint of sarcasm that went amiss in this thread.
 

Abasi

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Lore the D&T board mod started a discussion about Hawthorn and its list going forward, so I responded accordingly, but I think I might just repost it here and delete it from that board, as it's bound to be a trollfest.

I think the end certainly is nigh for a few players, and probably even more if they can't put together some form late in the year.

So, Hawks fans, who do you want to re-sign, and who is on the trade table?
Of the 2019 out of contract crew, I'd go with the below table.

Birchall, Burgoyne and Minchington get 1 yr deals if they play out the season without issue, otherwise they're added to the 6 delisted players I've considered below.

Ceglar, Smith, Pittonet(has some interest from a Vic club), Howe and Morrison up for trade. Noting that Smith and Ceglar are the only ones who might get any bites, but we would be wanting 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks for our draft hand to match bids for our F/S & NGA kids, not necessarily first rounders.

The key is to not cut away too much of our experience/depth in one off season, so Mirra, Burgoyne, Birchall and O'Brien get 1yr deals that perhaps they might not get at another time.

I'd be reluctant to put Bruest up for trade and lose him, as he's a genuine star small forward which are rare(who knows what he, Gunston, Wingard and another tall like Patton could do with some decent supply). It would need to be a superb trade offer to have him on the table.

With the delistings I've made below our Average Age drops almost 2 years and the age profile looks far more balanced overall.

14Grant BirchallUnrestricted Free Agent20191 yr on form
2Jarryd RougheadUnrestricted Free Agent2019Delist
25Ryan SchoenmakersUnrestricted Free Agent2019Delist
9Shaun BurgoyneUnrestricted Free Agent20191 yr on form
28Paul PuopoloRestricted Free Agent2019Delist
29William Langford (Rookie)Restricted Free Agent2019Delist
29Changkuoth Jiath (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
13Conor GlassNon-Free Agent20191 yr
44Damon Greaves (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20191 yr on form
38Darren MinchingtonNon-Free Agent20191 yr on form
32David MirraNon-Free Agent20191 yr
36Dylan MooreNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
40Harrison Jones (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
37Jackson RossNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
46James CousinsNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
12James FrawleyNon-Free Agent20191 yr
18Jonathon CeglarNon-Free Agent2019Trade
27Marc PittonetNon-Free Agent20191 yr
47Ned Reeves (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
31Ricky HendersonNon-Free Agent20191 yr
42Teia MilesNon-Free Agent2019Delist
23Tim O'BrienNon-Free Agent20191 yr
39Timothy Mohr (Rookie)Non-Free Agent2019Delist
3Tom MitchellNon-Free Agent2019I don't think this info is correct. He's contract.
45Will Golds (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20191 yr


Where do you see the gaps in the list as it stands?
Midfield depth, talls and a couple of grunts/role players with mongrel.

Also depends on how Jiath, Ross, Lewis and Jones develop over the second half of the year too as they all show varying levels of promise.


Which players do you think are gettable to fill those needs?
Hawthorn have been rumoured/linked to 8 different players just off the top of my head. We'd be talking to every manager who has a tall forward in their keeping who is wanting opportunities.

I'd think only two or three of those players are attainable this year(lots of people saying Patton is already across the line), unless we are really open to some ruthless trading.

What will it take, given the current trade and draft value on hand?
We'll use our first. That seems a given.
We'll quite possibly look to trade up even earlier with that pick.
I think Smith will be traded to a club wanting that finishing touch(Dogs, Melbourne).
We'll most likely trade out our 2nd round pick for a player, leaving a couple of 3rd and 4th round picks we've collected during trade week to match for Maginness/Pepper.
 

rogiebear93

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28Paul PuopoloRestricted Free Agent2019Delist
I think Puopolo gets another year or gets picked up as a free agent, honestly.

He's still quick, still tackles and still applies the pressure he needs to. This is something he can still do for a club that is functioning better than us.

I'd think if he was to be delisted he would have lost his spot by now.

I agree with the two veterans you want to keep, though. Birchall and Burgers are both important for leadership.
 

Gene Simmons

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Interesting article in the HS today and there is 1 key message that I cannot disagree with...

"The Hawks have between 6-10 guys getting regular games who should really fit into the fringe player category. You can afford to play a few players in that bracket but Hawthorn’s reliance on them is way too high."

I've said this in previous posts, no disrespect to Henderson - but the fact that he is our top midfielder speaks volumes of where our list is at.
 

Abasi

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Interesting article in the HS today and there is 1 key message that I cannot disagree with...

"The Hawks have between 6-10 guys getting regular games who should really fit into the fringe player category. You can afford to play a few players in that bracket but Hawthorn’s reliance on them is way too high."

I've said this in previous posts, no disrespect to Henderson - but the fact that he is our top midfielder speaks volumes of where our list is at.
That’s actually a ridiculous statement regarding Henderson. His number this year would put him in the best 3 performed players in just about every side.
 

rogiebear93

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Interesting article in the HS today and there is 1 key message that I cannot disagree with...

"The Hawks have between 6-10 guys getting regular games who should really fit into the fringe player category. You can afford to play a few players in that bracket but Hawthorn’s reliance on them is way too high."

I've said this in previous posts, no disrespect to Henderson - but the fact that he is our top midfielder speaks volumes of where our list is at.
If the AA midfield was picked purely on position he'd be firmly set on the wing. That's not relying on an average player, that's a formerly average player having a hell of a season and making himself become part of the core. One of the worst takes I've seen.
 

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rogiebear93

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That Goddard article is so contradictory, by the way.

I skimmed over it at the cafe this morning and while he’s trying to say we should “start again” he’s also advocating getting in a broken down 30yr old in Stephen Hill.
The trade part wasn't from Goddard it was from Jay Clarke or one of the other HS journos.

Here are the really bad calls from the article:

"James Worpel burst onto the scene and looked like he could provide that next generation spark but his development has stalled."
Second year player having a season where he's improved his averages by 50% is stalling in his development. Good analysis.

"Realistically, the Hawks have between 6-10 guys getting regular games who should really fit into the fringe player category. You can afford to play a few players in that bracket but Hawthorn’s reliance on them is way too high."
Again - what? Geelong have plenty of them too and they're clear on top of the ladder. Every club save for maybe GWS does now because the talent pool is so diluted.

"In terms of getting that top talent in, it might be time to return to the trade table but this time as a seller rather than a buyer."

"Jack Gunston is still in his prime and would be the perfect fit at a club searching for a second or third key forward."

Jack Gunston is in his prime at 27 and a reigning All Australian, so instead of keeping him in to complement the handful of 25 to 27 year olds we just recruited, trade him out for picks that won't be at their best until Wings, Mitchell, O'Meara and Scully are 30+.

"For guys like Luke Breust and Isaac Smith, it might be worth having similar conversations to the ones had with Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis."
The 28 year old Luke Breust is somehow in a similar situation to the 30+ year old Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. Gotta trade him, clearly.
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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Lore the D&T board mod started a discussion about Hawthorn and its list going forward, so I responded accordingly, but I think I might just repost it here and delete it from that board, as it's bound to be a trollfest.

I think the end certainly is nigh for a few players, and probably even more if they can't put together some form late in the year.


Of the 2019 out of contract crew, I'd go with the below table.

Birchall, Burgoyne and Minchington get 1 yr deals if they play out the season without issue, otherwise they're added to the 6 delisted players I've considered below.

Ceglar, Smith, Pittonet(has some interest from a Vic club), Howe and Morrison up for trade. Noting that Smith and Ceglar are the only ones who might get any bites, but we would be wanting 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks for our draft hand to match bids for our F/S & NGA kids, not necessarily first rounders.

The key is to not cut away too much of our experience/depth in one off season, so Mirra, Burgoyne, Birchall and O'Brien get 1yr deals that perhaps they might not get at another time.

I'd be reluctant to put Bruest up for trade and lose him, as he's a genuine star small forward which are rare(who knows what he, Gunston, Wingard and another tall like Patton could do with some decent supply). It would need to be a superb trade offer to have him on the table.

With the delistings I've made below our Average Age drops almost 2 years and the age profile looks far more balanced overall.

14Grant BirchallUnrestricted Free Agent20191 yr on form
2Jarryd RougheadUnrestricted Free Agent2019Delist
25Ryan SchoenmakersUnrestricted Free Agent2019Delist
9Shaun BurgoyneUnrestricted Free Agent20191 yr on form
28Paul PuopoloRestricted Free Agent2019Delist
29William Langford (Rookie)Restricted Free Agent2019Delist
29Changkuoth Jiath (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
13Conor GlassNon-Free Agent20191 yr
44Damon Greaves (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20191 yr on form
38Darren MinchingtonNon-Free Agent20191 yr on form
32David MirraNon-Free Agent20191 yr
36Dylan MooreNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
40Harrison Jones (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
37Jackson RossNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
46James CousinsNon-Free Agent20192 yrs
12James FrawleyNon-Free Agent20191 yr
18Jonathon CeglarNon-Free Agent2019Trade
27Marc PittonetNon-Free Agent20191 yr
47Ned Reeves (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20192 yrs
31Ricky HendersonNon-Free Agent20191 yr
42Teia MilesNon-Free Agent2019Delist
23Tim O'BrienNon-Free Agent20191 yr
39Timothy Mohr (Rookie)Non-Free Agent2019Delist
3Tom MitchellNon-Free Agent2019I don't think this info is correct. He's contract.
45Will Golds (Rookie)Non-Free Agent20191 yr



Midfield depth, talls and a couple of grunts/role players with mongrel.

Also depends on how Jiath, Ross, Lewis and Jones develop over the second half of the year too as they all show varying levels of promise.



Hawthorn have been rumoured/linked to 8 different players just off the top of my head. We'd be talking to every manager who has a tall forward in their keeping who is wanting opportunities.

I'd think only two or three of those players are attainable this year(lots of people saying Patton is already across the line), unless we are really open to some ruthless trading.


We'll use our first. That seems a given.
We'll quite possibly look to trade up even earlier with that pick.
I think Smith will be traded to a club wanting that finishing touch(Dogs, Melbourne).
We'll most likely trade out our 2nd round pick for a player, leaving a couple of 3rd and 4th round picks we've collected during trade week to match for Maginness/Pepper.
I don't understand all any of the interest in Patton.

Has injury problems and is a slow lumbering tall forward, at a time when they need to be far more agile and provide ruck relief.

Unless the Giants are selling him on the absolute cheap (e.g. a 3rd or 4th round pick) to get cap relief, not sure why we would bother.
 

rogiebear93

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I don't understand all any of the interest in Patton.

Has injury problems and is a slow lumbering tall forward, at a time when they need to be far more agile and provide ruck relief.

Unless the Giants are selling him on the absolute cheap (e.g. a 3rd or 4th round pick) to get cap relief, not sure why we would bother.
Upgrade or at least status quo option for Ceglar, but with a few more years. The Giants won't be asking for anything substantial - in fact I reckon they'd be close to giving us something back NBA style to take the cap space they'll need to secure the other young guns they have.
 

Gralin

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That’s actually a ridiculous statement regarding Henderson. His number this year would put him in the best 3 performed players in just about every side.
Got to love cognitive biases

Hendo was delisted by crows = no good
Got him for free proves he's no good

Playing like an AA - proves that team is no good because first two points prove Hendo is no good

Find article that supports view = I'm right
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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Upgrade or at least status quo option for Ceglar, but with a few more years. The Giants won't be asking for anything substantial - in fact I reckon they'd be close to giving us something back NBA style to take the cap space they'll need to secure the other young guns they have.
Patton is a better forward than Cegs, but Cegs far better in the ruck.

Why would we therefore want to absorb his over-priced salary (even if we get him on the cheap from the Giants), when we could use that cap space to lure a quality free agent in a position we have a real gap?
 

Kanga Commando

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As much as i despise him, Damian Barrett today was rather sympathetic to Hawks today on MMM. Actually so was Carey which amazed me... ( but really, thats easy for those spuds to do given we won... Next time we loose they will put the boots in )

Following his logic, we have either beaten or competed well with all but one team currently in the 8 as of tonight. Thats a major plus.

Delist some of the older players, and add Mitchell, maybe Cogs and one or two others, then, as Barrett intimated, we are not far off at all. He basically called out what most here are saying that things are not as bad as they seem ( to outsiders ).
 

Kanga Commando

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I think this would be fantastic if it came off; 'Kilda are a basket case and don't seem to have anything to hang their hat on, and Roughy could really help culture, recruitment and help lift them off the lower echelons of the ladder.
Agree. I’m sure he will be a very astute coach.
 
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