The farce of deliberate out of bounds

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Erick_the_Greatest

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Oct 25, 2019
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Let’s try and play without bias. Because this is a genuine issue

Can anyone provide percentages on when deliberates are paid by quarter?

Have seen blatant deliberates not paid in first halves, yet the umps seem to pull them from no where in last quarters
 

eastfreo75

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Let’s try and play without bias. Because this is a genuine issue

Can anyone provide percentages on when deliberates are paid by quarter?

Have seen blatant deliberates not paid in first halves, yet the umps seem to pull them from no where in last quarters
Umpires need to determine intent when awarding DOB which is highly subjective.

Generally speaking the team in front in the last quarter will lose benefit of the doubt.

Make it last touch or some other guide lines than intent.

We could use the following guild lines.
1. Kick or hand pass or tap that’s first direction was towards the line. If the kick is straight at first but bounced over the line isn’t a free kick. Kick down the line is ok but a kick towards the line isn’t.

2. Spoils over the line are never reward a free kick against.

3.Dropped mark isn’t a free kick.
 

Schauermann

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We all have seen shocking set shots for goal. So how can an umpire know if a kick under pressure was not meant to hit a teammate 30m inside the playing field?
 

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Randomizor

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Yeah don’t understand this rule anymore. Wasn’t it originally introduced to stop teams just going for metres by kicking to the line and forcing a throw in? Now we’ve got players getting pinged for knocking the ball out in a 2 v 1. What the hell happened?
 

sprockets

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Umpires need to determine intent when awarding DOB which is highly subjective.

Generally speaking the team in front in the last quarter will lose benefit of the doubt.

Make it last touch or some other guide lines than intent.

We could use the following guild lines.
1. Kick or hand pass or tap that’s first direction was towards the line. If the kick is straight at first but bounced over the line isn’t a free kick. Kick down the line is ok but a kick towards the line isn’t.

2. Spoils over the line are never reward a free kick against.

3.Dropped mark isn’t a free kick.
The (whole) rules are too complex as they are. Make it last touch (is usually seen by umps) or do away with the rule altogether. Spoil - too bad. Dropped mark - should have held it. Only throw it in when you're not sure who touched it last. Forget the umps judging intent.
 

PowerForGood

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Let’s try and play without bias. Because this is a genuine issue

Can anyone provide percentages on when deliberates are paid by quarter?

Have seen blatant deliberates not paid in first halves, yet the umps seem to pull them from no where in last quarters
Esp when a two fisted "spoil" over the boundary when there's no one else flying for the mark is NOT considered deliberate.
 

D-N-R

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To determine 'intent' you have to ask the question: "what advantage does the player get by putting the ball out?"

If a player is kicking towards one of his forwards who is on a lead and the ball misses by a mile and goes out then you would say this was a mistake. It would have been more advantageous to kick to his man. If the forward line is empty, and he goes to the boundary line, then you could say his intent was to put the ball out.

With defenders, booting the ball clear and over the line when under pressure is highly advantageous - ball is dead and defence can reset. These tend to be called the most.

When the clock is running down and there is less that a goal in it, getting the ball out is a great time waster. Enter Matt Tabaner. Clearly wanted the line. He had to make more of an effort to keep it in.

Some are more obvious than others, some are clearly shanks or kicks under pressure. Sometimes you just miss your team mate. Wet weather footy is more forgiving.
 

Wallaby

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My thought is we should get rid of the 'deliberate' rule entirely. If it's out of bounds, it's out of bounds - throw it in.

No 'last touch' rule.

If a defender wants to use the boundary line as help - go for it. If a team wants to play 'down the line' to create congestion - go for it. The ball gets thrown back into play 10-15 metres - that's enough room for the 'attacking' side to force the ball back into the central corridor if they are good enough.

The only thing I would keep in is the skill error - if the ball is kicked, handpassed or tapped out of the ruck and it goes out of bounds on the full - that remains a free kick. (Not sure about a spoil - probaly not).
 

Daemon

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I want to revive this thread because after watching tonight I think this has gone too far. It is absolutely ridiculous what is getting paid for deliberate these days. This rule needs to either be wound back to what it originally was intended, or scrapped altogether. Absolutely stupid rule at the moment.
 

telsor

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I want to revive this thread because after watching tonight I think this has gone too far. It is absolutely ridiculous what is getting paid for deliberate these days. This rule needs to either be wound back to what it originally was intended, or scrapped altogether. Absolutely stupid rule at the moment.
Like so many rules, it gets brought in for the really bad cases, and gradually gets reinterpreted to be a major problem.

'deliberate OOB' is now 'didn't try hard enough to keep it in'.
 

HairyO

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Like so many rules, it gets brought in for the really bad cases, and gradually gets reinterpreted to be a major problem.

'deliberate OOB' is now 'didn't try hard enough to keep it in'.
Not even.

Its "sometimes didnt try hard enough based on an umpire who actually doesnt know what it takes to play at an elite level so is guessing"

Plenty get missed. Plenty get pinged when they really shouldnt.

Kicking a ball 50m and it then having a right angle bounce to go out should never be pinged. But often is.
 

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Wallaby

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If you read the law it says ' does not demonstrate sufficient intent to keep the football in play' - which means that any defender seeing a ball rolling towards the line could be pinged if he doesn't make a desperate attempt to dive and tap the ball back into play.
There is so much grey in the wording that it can be invoked just about any time the ball goes out of play.










...................
 

LordLucifer

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My thought is we should get rid of the 'deliberate' rule entirely. If it's out of bounds, it's out of bounds - throw it in.

No 'last touch' rule.

If a defender wants to use the boundary line as help - go for it. If a team wants to play 'down the line' to create congestion - go for it. The ball gets thrown back into play 10-15 metres - that's enough room for the 'attacking' side to force the ball back into the central corridor if they are good enough.

The only thing I would keep in is the skill error - if the ball is kicked, handpassed or tapped out of the ruck and it goes out of bounds on the full - that remains a free kick. (Not sure about a spoil - probaly not).

Well said Wallaby.

As an old defender, naturally I hated the introduction of the "deliberate OOB' rule but it has gone way past what it's intention was originally based on.

For the record, I see no reason to have it in the first place especially when there is no way for the umpires to know what the player's thought process is/was so how can they penalise them ??

Last night, a Port defender was surrounded by Richmond players and under extreme pressure, just chucked the ball on the boot in total hope of getting out of the scoring zone and possibly near a team-mate, the kick was not aimed at the boundary line too. It took a leg-break and went out, the umpire then penalised him. How the feck can an umpire determine that a 50m kick was 'deliberate' when we have an oval ball that does have weird bounce patterns at times.

Once again, the AFL have created an unnecessary rule that gets bent out of shape and hard to adjudicate.

Strip back some of the rules and make the game easier to watch and for the umpires to oversee.

And have a suspension system for any TV commentator who wants to sit in judgement too, they know less than the umpires.
 

CakeEater

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I think the final goal for Richmond was a worse deliberate oob call.

There were 2 players in the vicinity which split the two of them.

How the ump can say he was deliberately trying to force the ball oob when the h/pass split the middle has me stumped.
 

Plugger35

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If you want to see a ridiculous deliberate out of bounds call this one against Montagna takes the cake.



That was back in 2011 so it's been a farce for a lot longer than just the last few years.
 

kozi

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If a player is being tackled or under sufficient pressure there should be no such thing as deliberate out of bonds. In that situation said player’s intention should always be presumed to be simply getting away a legal disposal in any way possible.

Also if the ball travles over a certain distance (35m?) it also shouldn’t apply. The instances where a defender in the back pocket throws a long hack kick on the boot and gets pinged are ludacris.
 

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