The forward line or the midfield?

[Enviable Tradition]

Last night game got me thinking (and I know it is a small sample against a depleted team) but...

How much of our forward problems have been as a result of our forward strategy and how much had been our midfield strategy?

Under Voss we were all bash and crash.

Lycett, Wines, Boak, Drew > Dixon.

We never got clean ball out for the front of the stoppage and when we did it was slow, high and wide.

Suddenly you bring in a tap ruckman (Hayes) and some lateral movement to move through rather than around stoppage (Butters and Rozee) and our forward line approach seems totally different and we have leading targets getting hit up.

So which comes first the chicken or the egg?

And is the change just personnel or game plan or both?

 

[Us against the rest]

I think it's a bit of personnel and a lot of poor coaching.

Until Butters & Rozee become a permanent part of our mid field we will struggle. Butters, Rozee, Wines, Drew and rotating with SPP and Boak seems like it may work.

Imo the big difference has been Hayes, his ruck work is fantastic and when he builds a tank he's going to be an awesome player.

Marshall is starting to be the full forward we have been waiting for, i think he has been told to forget the past instructions of being a decoy for Dixon and be the main focus. This works well with MG and Finlayson as they are different types of players, the missing piece is a very good small forward like Fantasia if he can ever get on the park, Gray is on his last legs.

The beautiful kicking into the forward line from Farrell and at times from Amon and Houston into a functioning forward line is a sight for sore eyes.

Burton is someone we can build a good defence around, Jonas, Clurey and a few others try hard but are under size to take on tall forwards.

This current coaching panel can lay the blame directly on themselves, terrible forward entries, a stale bash and crash midfield is all their doing, a change of coach will be the ticket needed to get us flying again, Hinkley just doesn't cut it.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The forward line are told not to move and the midfield are told to bomb it in quickly in the direction of Dixon.

I assume the strategy is to avoid intercept marks, because while Chuck doesn't always hold his marks, he basically never gets outmarked. So we're just getting it in there, getting it on the deck and trying to score through individual brilliance.

It helps us avoid conceding turnover goals, but doesn't help us score. When we play good teams, they're good enough to manufacture goals against us, but we're not good enough to score against them because we don't set up to do so.

 

[TeeKray]

Let's see the likes of Hayes, Rozee and Butters perform against a good team before we get too excited.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Its an overall game plan issue first and foremost but from a talent perspective its always been a forward line problem moreso than a midfield problem.

We saw on the weekend that any time a lead is actually there its honoured and delivered to well.

The problem is that the coaching for too long has instructed the midfield to kick either on the head of Charlie/SGray/Neade, or to the pocket to force a stoppage. Its what theyve done perfectly, its just not a good plan to begin with.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Let's see the likes of Hayes, Rozee and Butters perform against a good team before we get too excited.

They aren't ready yet.

But hopefully that's a glimpse of what's to come when they are.

 

[Power Raid]

Last night game got me thinking (and I know it is a small sample against a depleted team) but...

How much of our forward problems have been as a result of our forward strategy and how much had been our midfield strategy?

Under Voss we were all bash and crash.

Lycett, Wines, Boak, Drew > Dixon.

We never got clean ball out for the front of the stoppage and when we did it was slow, high and wide.

Suddenly you bring in a tap ruckman (Hayes) and some lateral movement to move through rather than around stoppage (Butters and Rozee) and our forward line approach seems totally different and we have leading targets getting hit up.

So which comes first the chicken or the egg?

And is the change just personnel or game plan or both?

if mcgovern played yesterday, we would have seen a very different score line despite our midfield's dominance


our 2022 forward line is crap but so to is our 2022 midfield. How can we go so far backwards with so few personnel changes? The answer is clearly the loss of quality assistant coaches.

This same thing happened when out assistants went to the cows and saints.

This suggests to me, Ken can't coach. He can manage players and manage assistants.......which is arguably the job of a modern coach. but what he can't do is coach himself.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

if mcgovern played yesterday, we would have seen a very different score line despite our midfield's dominance


our 2022 forward line is crap but so to is our 2022 midfield. How can we go so far backwards with so few personnel changes? The answer is clearly the loss of quality assistant coaches.

This same thing happened when out assistants went to the cows and saints.

This suggests to me, Ken can't coach. He can manage players and manage assistants.......which is arguably the job of a modern coach. but what he can't do is coach himself.

I feel a lot more confident that the game plan the last 3 quarters might have gotten around McGovern than our usual game plan.

1. Ruck taps to advantage
2. Clearances out the front of the square
3. Hitting leading forwards.

We have been crying out for these things for years.

The lack of them is a big reason many of us were pessimistic all last year despite the seemingly good results.

Maybe it's a step back to go forwards.

Or maybe it's just a shallow spike against a depleted team.

Time will tell.

 

[Power Raid]

I feel a lot more confident that the game plan the last 3 quarters might have gotten around McGovern than our usual game plan.

1. Ruck taps to advantage
2. Clearances out the front of the square
3. Hitting leading forwards.

We have been crying out for these things for years.

The lack of them is a big reason many of us were pessimistic all last year despite the seemingly good results.

Maybe it's a step back to go forwards.

Or maybe it's just a shallow spike against a depleted team.

Time will tell.

we definitely need to step back to go forward as we are not winning a flag with dixon, gray and boak in the side due to rebuild. That means jonas, mckenzie, mayes, lycett, motlop and clurey are probably at an age they are participating either.

below that we have 7 or 8 proven AFL quality players and the rest are developing or need to be recruited.

 

[davesnothere]

6-6-6 and a dinosaur ruck handing silver service to a midfield with quality kicking skills and your forwards don't need to be as good as they will have you believing that they are.

You can not defend against quality delivery without getting numbers back. A quality forward line is a by-product of quality midfield. Tim Evans didn't make Russell Ebert look good.

 

[Janus]

The midfield dictates what side of the ground is the strong side or the weak side based on the angle at which they deliver the ball into the forward line. So it's always the midfield that determines the performance of the forwards, since they determine the position from which the ball is coming into the forward 50. Our failure to deliver into the forward 50 with any real purpose comes from not executing a lateral kick into the corridor first to open up the angles and be able to hit multiple targets and spread the field.

For example, if the ball is coming down the outer boundary line, the defenders know that they don't have to defend half the forward 50, so they can clog up the outer side area of the forward 50...which leads to the only possible place for a forward to get the ball being - you guessed it, the pockets (or pressed up against the boundary).

It's why I've always advocated for an explosive mid who can push forward and kick a goal - your Martin/Petracca/Dangerfield type. Every premiership calibre team has one, because they can open up the field from a stoppage rather than just hoof the ball forward in hope down the line or have to go backwards to avoid the zone. It's no surprise that our best looking football happened in 2014 when we had a transcendent Robbie Gray

9

Robbie Gray

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

13.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

dominating in the midfield.

Speaking of Hayes - 11 hitouts to advantage out of 20 against Carlton. 17 hitouts to advantage out of 47 against West Coast.

If Hayes can get his possession numbers up to 15-20 per game through building his tank and become a viable link man through the middle...

 

[Windy Cindy]

Been banging on about it for years, ya win absolutely nothing without an elite and deep midfield. A midfield that works both ways and a midfield with elite skills.

We have neither and we are miles off it..

 

[tribey]

I read an article the other day saying ‘it’s not all doom and gloom at Port, they won the inside50 count against premiership fancies Brisbane!’

Oh my sweet summer child.

I think I love Sam Hayes, and not because I had an accidental ‘Who’s on first, Watt’s on second’ bit regarding him and Sam Mayes

32

Sam Mayes

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

20.0

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

7.2

5star

M

6.2

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

with a mate’s dad last year.

 

[1954]

The midfield often controls the outcome of a game, if it gets on top and delivers the ball well enough to the forwards most teams should win more often than not.
There is also the added bonus of far less pressure on the defence when its midfield is calling the shots, allowing them to set up better.

Some of the bigger defences can hold out longer than others, but the dam wall usually breaks eventually, and our undersized defence has been one of the first to put up the white flag for multiple seasons now, hence the all to regular game over comments on numerous match threads.

No team can have enough quality mids, but in my humble opinion even if it's with our first selection we have to give far more priority this season to getting the biggest and best key position defender available.