Opinion Six $1m players in the AFL in 2019 - GWS with potentially 3 for 2020

[THE_GUN]

How have I made it personal?

And yet here you are worried about our salary cap and coming up with figures that arent correct.

I was there, 1st quarter was good, 2nd sucked, 3rd and 4th were a bit of a blur from the beer.

and yet they re-sign for less to stay. The facts are different to your, rather salty, theories my friend.

That is making it personal by stating its my salty theories ........... Salty ??? Dont get why i would be salty ?

Anyway might be good for you to re watch the last 3 quarters and perhaps you will accept i have nothing to be salty about.

By the way i hope there are no mental scarring on the GWS boys as there was with the Crows players

 

[HairyO]

No fairy land here as you are incorrect.

Was reported on AFL360 last year that the Pendles got the largest Ambassador payment in the league.

Houli also gets an ambassador payment and there are plenty of others.

Cameron is on Ambassador money. Pretty sure it was mentioned at the time when Pendles was outed as the highest paid ambassador in the comp.

My guess is clubs each get an equal pool of money to distribute any way they want. Collingwood probably chose to give it all to Pendles.

The issue is that Im 100% sure there are other payments the AFL decides to distribute which creates uneven payments. And that is money which ended up going to Cogs.

 

[robbieando]

Complete rubbish mate 110 % wrong you know it as well.

Its not wrong, every club has access to the Additional Services Agreement under the CBA or "ambassadorships" as most people think they are called. Thats an extra $1.1m each club has to spend outside the cap. Not just those pesky Northern State teams. So players appearing like Jordan Lewis and Jack Riewoldt on AFL360 would have their payments counted under the ASA. Players who have real ambassador roles like NicNat, Cogs or Allir Allir under the ASA. Appearance in ads for the club or club sponsors its under the ASA.

13. Payment of Total Player Payment and Additional Services Agreements

1. (a) Each AFL Club must expend no less than 95% of the combined annual Total Player Payments and Additional Services Agreements limits in Football Payments to Players on its List in each relevant year.

So what is the Additional Services Agreement you ask?

A Player may contract with an AFL Club and/or Sponsor of an AFL Club to derive payments as a direct result of bona fide promotions/marketing by that Player in accordance with the Guidelines for Additional Services Agreements and the definition of Football Payments. Such arrangements are separate and distinct from the Standard Playing Contract which regulates the employment of a Player to play Australian Football for an AFL Club. Payments made pursuant to a marketing contract shall be in addition to and separate from payments made to the Player for performance of services as a professional footballer and shall not be taken into account in calculating Total Player Payments.

Additional Service Agreements may be for services/uses including the following:

1. employment arrangements with the AFL Club or Associates of a Club
2. use of Player Image either individually or involving six (6) Players or less for promotion of the AFL Club or Club partners, if the Club and Player agree
3. providing other bona fide additional services including but not limited to media content for the AFL Club or Club partners.

Well that leaves things open to all sorts of rorting of the system I hear you say

Additional Services Agreement Requirements

1. An Additional Services Agreement must:
   1. be in writing
   2. represent bona fide commercially based arrangements
   3. be lodged with the AFL within 28 days of the date of the signing of the contract by the parties.
2. The Investigations Manager or the General Counsel must be satisfied that an Additional Services Agreement is bona fide and if he is not so satisfied, the payments made by the AFL Club or Sponsor of an AFL Club under the Additional Services Agreement shall be included in the Total Player Payments of the AFL Club.

The Limits under the CBA. Not a bad little slush fund for every club to spend that the players worked into the CBA

Total Player Payments Limit 2017 - 2022

2017 - $12,445,028
2018 - $12,594,368
2019 - $12,758,095
2020 - $13,013,257
2021 - $13,273,522
2022 - $13,538,993

Additional Services Agreement Limit 2017 - 2022

2017 - $1,061,347
2018 - $1,093,187
2019 - $1,125,983
2020 - $1,159,763
2021 - $1,194,555
2022 - $1,230,392

 

[THE_GUN]

Cogs is on a reported 1 mil a year. Could be under could be over (as have heard both)
Jezza is on currently 1 mill as he is on a back ended contract. His new offer is on under a mil but on 7 or 8 years.
Greene signed for 850 or 800 for 6 years.
Whitfield is also under a mil reportedly.

I call bullshit because none of those figures are a million. (except possibly Cogs).
Why must they be? Hawks, Tigersand Cats held onto there stars.

Richmond the last 2 years have let a few players that were depth go and have been replaced by 20 players the last 3 drafts
Lloyd,Miles,Ellis,Ellis,Grigg,Conca,Butler just to name the players that were on $350k+ thats $2.5 mil just there before even getting to players like Menadue,Moore,Townsend etc.

But GWS dont have this type of players , The list is full of stars or future stars plus maybe 4-5 players on peanuts that add depth but dont get much $$$

In 2 years time you will have another 6-7 players looking at $600k+ Salaries that will need to fit into a tight cap and that wont happen and will need to be let go.

Green / Caldwell / Hately / Taylor / O'Hallaran / Briggs / Daniels / Hopper / Ash there are alot of stars but not many soldiers there

 

[Rich01]

Coniglio, Kelly, Whitfield, Cameron and Jack Martin all getting a million bucks next year.

 

[HTPunter]

Winning flags with a group makes players take less to stay
Hawks,Cats,Tigers all have shown this happens and with the majority of these players from their home state usually has an influence also but this is different to the GWS model where these boys are away from friends and family and so far yet to experience the rewards

And why can't they sign for less in pursuit of a flag? Do players only prioritise team success AFTER it's occurred?

GWS are on the cusp and have been for 3-4 years. It makes sense the core would all sign for less if there has been appropriate buy-in culture wise, seemingly it has.

Their list of stars is no greater than Martin, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Rance, Prestia, Lynch plus guys like Astbury who just came up for free agency.

But because GWS don't flog themselves silly in the media about signing for less and having mouth pieces perform journalistic fellatio on their players, we all assume they signed for a million plus.

 

[robbieando]

Richmond the last 2 years have let a few players that were depth go and have been replaced by 20 players the last 3 drafts
Lloyd,Miles,Ellis,Ellis,Grigg,Conca,Butler just to name the players that were on $350k+ thats $2.5 mil just there before even getting to players like Menadue,Moore,Townsend etc.

But GWS dont have this type of players , The list is full of stars or future stars plus maybe 4-5 players on peanuts that add depth but dont get much $$$

In 2 years time you will have another 6-7 players looking at $600k+ Salaries that will need to fit into a tight cap and that wont happen and will need to be let go.

Green / Caldwell / Hately / Taylor / O'Hallaran / Briggs / Daniels / Hopper / Ash there are alot of stars but not many soldiers there

They have lost players like Patten, Scully, Tomlinson, Shiel, Deledio, Bonar, Lobb, Setterfield. All compete minimum wage list fillers

 

[HTPunter]

They have lost players like Patten, Scully, Tomlinson, Shiel, Deledio, Bonar, Lobb, Setterfield. All compete minimum wage list fillers

Corey Ellis on 350k apparently but not one of those guys would command that!

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Mate you’re living in fairy land now the only teams that have access to ambassador money are the teams in the expansion states no other clubs do as it would defeat the purpose its extra money to be a ambassador in non afl areas the only money pendles gets is his salary or private sponsors he may have !

Mate, somebody better tell Basher Houli and Dyson Heppell and David Zaharakis and Christian Salem and Majak Daw and Nic Natinui that they’re not getting multicultural ambassadorial money anymore.

Will probably come as a bit of a shock to them.

 

[HTPunter]

The question is, why would a player like Whitfield sign a 7 year deal for anything less than a million? Player salaries have gone up significantly in the last 7 years. What was outrageous back then is starting to become the norm. Why would you lock yourself in for that long unless it was significant? This is a guy who could well go on to become one of the top 2-3 players in the comp. You would have to assume at the very least he's on 900k and that's still a fair amount!

Sure, he may take unders to stay with his mates, but why sign for unders for 7 years? Why not sign for unders for say 4 years, then extend again for a bit more? Why lock yourself in for 7 years of being underpaid?

Because he loves the culture and wants to play there for the prime of his career? He can see this core list of players is very talented and could see success with them?

Why is that so difficult to believe?

He could also have out clauses, and he could also get traded anyway as many other contracted players do.

 

[HTPunter]

Complete rubbish mate 110 % wrong you know it as well.

AFLW stars join multicultural ambassadors program

Nineteen AFL and AFLW players named as Australia Post multicultural ambassadors

www.afl.com.au

 

[Scotland]

Six over $1m and 25 from $800k-$1m.

Doesn't add up given how many players at my club I have heard on BigFooty are on $800k+.

 

[HTPunter]

I find it hilarious that every deadwood list clogger is always on the average salary once they're cut/traded.

Six million-dollar men as player salaries go up again

The League has released the player payment data for 2018 and there are some familiar names at the top

www.afl.com.au

Average salary ballpark 370k.

And the deadwood who get delisted or traded as the 30-40th players on the list (ballpark that because of draftees who are lesser players but kept for development) are all on average salaries...hmmm...funny how bias works, GWS are all on a million bucks or spuds, while Richmond players all accept unders (such great guys!) except for their list cloggers who were all on 350k, well above their worth.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Mate, somebody better tell Basher Houli and Dyson Heppell and David Zaharakis and Christian Salem and Majak Daw and Nic Natinui that they’re not getting multicultural ambassadorial money anymore.

Will probably come as a bit of a shock to them.

Don't Forget Hawkins, Saad, Puopolo, Aliir Aliir, Jong, Johannison and Zorko

 

[HTPunter]

Six over $1m and 25 from $800k-$1m.

Doesn't add up given how many players at my club I have heard on BigFooty are on $800k+.

West Coast are another scrutinised club because they don't get the journalistic fellatio.

McGovern, Gaff, Naitanui, Kennedy are (were) on decent deals, undeniably. Shuey, Darling, Yeo also likely get paid handsomely.
But McGovern and Gaffs good deals started up as Naitanui and Kennedy's would be winding down. It's fairly likely Naitanui got between 900-1mil in 2017, because 1 player got that without playing a game. Good management would make it likely it was frontloaded to coincide with the likes of McGovern and Gaff getting increases. Kennedy just extended to 2020 and at 31-32 it's fair to assume he didn't get the same dollar per year.

Yet apparently every Eagle has to sign for huge money and not one of them could possibly consider signing for less, only Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong players do that!

And of course with LeCras, Lycett leaving, but don't forget 350k men such as Mackenzie, Mutimer, Partington and Butler!

 

[Forward Press]

Mate you’re living in fairy land now the only teams that have access to ambassador money are the teams in the expansion states no other clubs do as it would defeat the purpose its extra money to be a ambassador in non afl areas the only money pendles gets is his salary or private sponsors he may have !

Naitanui is well known to receive ambassador payments so your argument is already destroyed there.

 

[Scotland]

West Coast are another scrutinised club because they don't get the journalistic fellatio.

McGovern, Gaff, Naitanui, Kennedy are (were) on decent deals, undeniably. Shuey, Darling, Yeo also likely get paid handsomely.
But McGovern and Gaffs good deals started up as Naitanui and Kennedy's would be winding down. It's fairly likely Naitanui got between 900-1mil in 2017, because 1 player got that without playing a game. Good management would make it likely it was frontloaded to coincide with the likes of McGovern and Gaff getting increases. Kennedy just extended to 2020 and at 31-32 it's fair to assume he didn't get the same dollar per year.

Yet apparently every Eagle has to sign for huge money and not one of them could possibly consider signing for less, only Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong players do that!

And of course with LeCras, Lycett leaving, but don't forget 350k men such as Mackenzie, Mutimer, Partington and Butler!

And the fact that at the end of 2017 we apparently had a bottom 4 list.

Since the end of 2017 Mitchell, Priddis, Petrie (rookie), Ellis, Wellingham, Mackenzie, Hill, LeCras, Lycett, Masten. Butler have all finished up. These guys aren't all stars but most were 5-10+ year players and a couple would've signed decent contracts at points in their career. Three B&F winners in that list so they're not all bargain basement players.

Naitanui famously got ambassador money so his football vs non-football salary I have no idea, but it was reported he re-signed last year for a significant pay cut which while unfair given he has had two knee recos is fair in that he's not worth $800k+ any more. Darling, Gaff, Yeo, Shuey etc. have been building over time so it's not like the club needed to find $1m overnight for any. McGovern a bit different after a rapid rise but he was still on the list a long time. Kelly coming in is a new cost, but how much that is no one really knows. If our list was legit in 2017 then it's hard to see how it isn't currently.

 

[bluespooner]

Cogs is on a reported 1 mil a year. Could be under could be over (as have heard both)
Jezza is on currently 1 mill as he is on a back ended contract. His new offer is on under a mil but on 7 or 8 years.
Greene signed for 850 or 800 for 6 years.
Whitfield is also under a mil reportedly.

I call bullshit because none of those figures are a million. (except possibly Cogs).
Why must they be? Hawks, Tigersand Cats held onto there stars.

They didn't, Hawthorn lost there biggest star in the premiership run. Allegedly with AFL assistance to manoevre him into their Sydney franchise.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Signing multiple players to 7 year deals makes salary cap management arguably even more difficult, it gives far less flexibility. Considering the quality of the kids they've picked up recently it seems odd that they would be comfortable with 7 year deals for Whitfield and Coniglio that may make it more difficult to keep a player like Taranto.

Taranto is already signed for the next three seasons. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I don't get the confusion. Look at the quality of players GWS let leave for bugger all.

You mean like Rhys Palmer, Adam Tomlinson, Jon Patton and Tom Scully?

Most Giants supporters are thrilled we got any compensation for those guys at all.

 

[PenAndPaper]

no. it had the effect of not having to pay him 400k in 2020 or 2021. thus freeing up 800k from the salary cap over the next 2 years (less whatever we have to pay the draftee that takes his place on the list)

Technically it didn't free up anything other than his 2018/19 wage though because he wasn't earning that, you guys had his base wage on the books. You can't just magically grab an extra 300k without having some decent movement out for that period it was expected to be paid.

Don't get me wrong you have moved on plenty of players in the past 2 years that would have been on a fair amount, just strange that you'd have Cameron, Greene, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly, Haynes, Taranto on pretty sizeable contracts & that's not including Davis/Ward (admittedly who may have had heavily front ended contracts". Not saying you guys are rorting the salary cap, just a very strange list management decision to have those players taking up a significant portion of your salary cap & for such extended periods for the majority of them.

 

[Forward Press]

Technically it didn't free up anything other than his 2018/19 wage though because he wasn't earning that, you guys had his base wage on the books. You can't just magically grab an extra 300k without having some decent movement out for that period it was expected to be paid.

Don't get me wrong you have moved on plenty of players in the past 2 years that would have been on a fair amount, just strange that you'd have Cameron, Greene, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly, Haynes, Taranto on pretty sizeable contracts & that's not including Davis/Ward (admittedly who may have had heavily front ended contracts". Not saying you guys are rorting the salary cap, just a very strange list management decision to have those players taking up a significant portion of your salary cap & for such extended periods for the majority of them.

Maybe they all took pay cuts to stay together because they can see a period of sustained success coming up?

Thought as a Hawks supporter you'd be well aware that money isn't everything for all AFL players.

As has been pointed out numerous times, the figures are all media speculation. None of us know for certain.

 

[Gigantic]

The word "reported" can go into the same bin as "in the know"

Means absolutely nothing these days, apparently.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Technically it didn't free up anything other than his 2018/19 wage though because he wasn't earning that, you guys had his base wage on the books. You can't just magically grab an extra 300k without having some decent movement out for that period it was expected to be paid.

Don't get me wrong you have moved on plenty of players in the past 2 years that would have been on a fair amount, just strange that you'd have Cameron, Greene, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly, Haynes, Taranto on pretty sizeable contracts & that's not including Davis/Ward (admittedly who may have had heavily front ended contracts". Not saying you guys are rorting the salary cap, just a very strange list management decision to have those players taking up a significant portion of your salary cap & for such extended periods for the majority of them.

If he signed a contract that said he would be paid 400k in 2020 and another 400k in 2021, then that money is “on the books”. It’s been factored into the bottom line of the budget for those two years. We can’t lose his 2018/19 wage because we already paid that to him. It was “on the books” for those two years and paid out in those two years so we don’t save a cent of it by moving him on - cause the money has already been spent.

What we do save is what we don’t have to pay in the future (and it’s not a hypothetical saving) it’s an actual saving because we were contractually obliged to pay it and it existed in the budget as an outgoing expense and now it doesn’t have to be paid in the way we were originally going to pay it and can be spent in other areas, on other players that are not Aiden Bonar.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Nobody knows the figures, the media guess.
Its weird that supporters of clubs that proudly celebrate the cultures their clubs have built over the past few years are the same ones in here launching conspiracy theories against the actual same thing.
Players want to be in Sydney for the lifestyle benefits and will take unders to keep it.
Contracted players with back ended deals can be traded out.

Ahh Sydney. Schrödinger's City. Where players simultaneously take unders for lifestyle but until very recently needed COLA to stay