Sport The Hangar Cricket Thread IV

[eth-dog]

Outside the line: NOT OUT

 

[ant555]

The Bailey talk has been interesting for me. Seems that on one hand everyone agrees we need to give blokes a fair crack at their spot in the side yet the call for their head also comes very quickly if they are not averaging over 40 in a hurry.
Yes he has some work to do and averaging 27 will not cut it long term as a batsman but i have seen a lot worse in their first 5 tests and some of them went on to be very good players.

 

[Phone]

but see, bailey averages about 35 over the past 4 seasons in the shield and he averages that partly because he fishes like crazy outside off. And he's averaged about 27 this series partly because he's fished like crazy outside off. i would say he got a fair crack to prove those shield numbers lied in some aspect, and they clearly haven't.

 

[eth-dog]

Doolan has clearly outperformed him in the past 3 seasons (and remember that they both play for Tassie so it's same conditions, games etc.). White and North are also putting forward red ball form to go to SA. I think it should be Doolan and North to go (due to vics being shit and w/o White we'll be even more shit)

 

[ant555]

but see, bailey averages about 35 over the past 4 seasons in the shield and he averages that partly because he fishes like crazy outside off. And he's averaged about 27 this series partly because he's fished like crazy outside off. i would say he got a fair crack to prove those shield numbers lied in some aspect, and they clearly haven't.

So basically he should not have been picked at all then. Phill Hughes makes more first class runs than most but has proven just averaging 40 plus in sheild cricket puts you in the picture either. Have been a Hughes fan so i am not against him.
You could argue that Clarke and Ponting where pretty good at fishing outside off stump.
The simple fact is he has not been terrible so far.
Do not even bother bring he who makes the most runs in sheild cricket should get the nod or we will be bringing back North.
Doolen looks good but why does he have to be in the side now ? Bailey will probably get sorted out in SA anyway and a spot will open up.Until he starts making a string of scores under 10 he should be in the side.

Micheal Clarke never had a great Sheild average but the selectors took a punt on someone they believed would improve.

 

[BrunoV]

issue i have with the batting line up is that there is a specialist 5 and a 32 year old specialist 6. if we are going to give a guy a go, without performance being that significant a criteria, i would much rather have lyn, maddinson or which ever other young gun can be developed to bat at 3 (if victoria wasnt inept at developing players keath could probably be part of the conversation). if finch could just get it together in the one dayers and remainder of the shield hed have to get close.

 

[eth-dog]

Finch shouldn't even play Shield. He's useless against the red ball.

In reality the squad should be:

Batsmen: Rogers, Warner, Watson, Clarke, Smith, Doolan, North (Bailey)
Keeper: Haddin
Bowlers: Johnson, Siddle, Harris, Faulkner, Lyon, Pattinson/Bird

I expect Bailey to go instead of North. If Haddin gets injured fly Paine over immediately. I have a feeling CA want Wade to stay and be captain of Victoria for the next couple of seasons. If North and Doolan both fail after the Indian series over here we go to a young bloke (Lynn/Burns/Marsh/Maddinson/Handscomb)

 

[Phone]

So basically he should not have been picked at all then.
Phill Hughes makes more first class runs than most but has proven just averaging 40 plus in sheild cricket puts you in the picture either. Have been a Hughes fan so i am not against him.
You could argue that Clarke and Ponting where pretty good at fishing outside off stump.

I would not have been upset if that was the case. I think the selectors showed a lack of courage by picking Bailey, and I say this because they had over-looked Bailey frequently from the test squad over the previous 12-24 months despite excellent ODI form. I think most people would have picked Bailey over Smith for the Indian tour on the basis of his ODI form. But the selectors went with Smith over Bailey, and did so for the Ashes too. I think they panicked by picking Bailey. He was the safe option (as we discussed here at the time). But it didn't follow the example they had set over the previous 12 months where they over-looked Bailey, and I think they over-looked him because they had doubts over his suitability to test cricket

I wasn't upset when Bailey was picked though. I just didn't really expect great things.

The simple fact is he has not been terrible so far.
Do not even bother bring he who makes the most runs in sheild cricket should get the nod or we will be bringing back North.
Doolen looks good but why does he have to be in the side now ? Bailey will probably get sorted out in SA anyway and a spot will open up.Until he starts making a string of scores under 10 he should be in the side.

So four single digit scores in the first innings, and more importantly just four awful innings which happened to be low scoring, aren't enough to call him terrible so far, or to drop him? This is just crazy to me. You basically admit to thinking he will fail in SA, but that we shouldn't drop Bailey. Why does Doolan have to be in the side now? Cause it makes the team better. It's like saying to yourself "I think this train has faulty brakes and will crash soon, but I'm not gonna switch to this better train". It's just insane to me. You should always be looking to improve the team. There's not much reason to think sticking with Bailey is the way to go. He's not got the numbers, more importantly, he's shown nothing to suggest he has the ability to adapt to test cricket.

I certainly don't think Bailey should be replaced by the top scorer in the shield, or the "in-form player" though. This is also crazy to me. We picked the "in-form George Bailey". It hasn't worked. So we're gonna pick the "in-form Marcus North" or the "in-form Cameron White"? Yeah that will work out perfectly. Form is temporarily. It misleads. Favourable situations (aka luck) plays a huge role in form. Bad bowling attacks, lucky breaks, easy batting conditions etc. It's no way to pick a player. Pick whoever you think comes out on top after considering their game (technique, strong areas, weak areas) and package (age, desire, leadership if required and that sort of stuff). And if they haven't got strong recent form behind them, well just be sensible: Is their technique struggling? That's the only time you let a string of low scores worry you, when their technique has deteriorated, or if it just doesn't look good enough. Ideally the guy you think is the best option available has also got the strongest numbers behind them, but it's not always the case.

If the selectors think Marcus North has the best game and package, then they should pick him. If they think it's Chris Lynn, pick him. There's absolutely no reason to believe George Bailey is the person though.

 

[BrunoV]

like i said finch needs to get it together. given that he is already playing one day cricket for aus he doesnt have to do much more than convert a few tons in remaining shield season (regardless of his otherwise pathetic redball numbers).

suggest that handscomb only gets mentioned because he is a vic. hes a bloody awful looking player.

 

[eth-dog]

like i said finch needs to get it together. given that he is already playing one day cricket for aus he doesnt have to do much more than convert a few tons in remaining shield season (regardless of his otherwise pathetic redball numbers).

suggest that handscomb only gets mentioned because he is a vic. hes a bloody awful looking player.

Um, I don't think you've seen much of him. He looks excellent when batting. His 2 biggest weaknesses are that he's a little suspect against good swing bowling and his conversion rate.

 

[Dan Cooper]

he said they dropped lawry 3 times or something?

Found some additional info on that Essendon v Northcote 1965/66 district cricket final:

Northcote 5-516 defeated Essendon 9 dec - 514.

Northcote: Bill Lawry batted 509 minutes and faced 454 deliveries for his 282 not out, and hit 32 boundaries.

For Essendon, captain Ian Monks top scored with 136, and two Essendon footballers were amongst the runs. Greg Brown made 36 and Barry Davis batting at number 8 made 66.

http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/shanahan-lawry-and-the-breaking-of-the-drought/

 

[Zach Package]

suggest that handscomb only gets mentioned because he is a vic. hes a bloody awful looking player.

not sure if srs

 

[yaco55]

SA will be an interesting series. The pitches will favour the quicks, so there will be no excuses from either side. It will be interesting to see how SA copes with the chin music, and the Aussies with movement off the pitch. The SA batting line up is vulnerable - Petersen is gettable, Smith is down on form, Amla and De Villiers are guns, Duminy is inconsistent and Du Plessis is a solid performer.

 

[Howard Moon]

its difficult really, asking for changes in a side that just white washed the ashes 5-0 with innings victories and all round thumpings each match.

we can say some cracks were wall papered over by a pitiful opposition, but they were not so pitiful 6 months ago, we may well have made them look as such.

there does seem to be a certain element of harmony in the side at present, by harmony i mean players are being carried, but every time there is a collapse or whatever somebody stands up, there is always somebody to pick up the slack...

Rogers had failures but scored when we really required it, Smith saved us on 2 occasions, Haddin on many ocassions even Bailey who failed more than not scored runs twice when they were really needed. Thats a team, a balanced team that works for each other... not reliant on one Clarke like 6 months ago.

....it also helps to bat when the bowlers have skittled the opponents for nothing.. granted.

I wouldnt be surprised to see an un-changed line up , save for a few more tourers, (pattinson, doolan and co)
These guys have probably earnt a chance to stay together after this summer?

 

[Howard Moon]

lets be fair, if this had been the Pakistani tour of Australia they would be calling max fixing, the poms were dire to the point of conspiracy....

 

[Yoda_]

like i said finch needs to get it together. given that he is already playing one day cricket for aus he doesnt have to do much more than convert a few tons in remaining shield season (regardless of his otherwise pathetic redball numbers).

suggest that handscomb only gets mentioned because he is a vic. hes a bloody awful looking player.

Might be an idea for Finch to get a regular gig before being able to convert any 'starts'.

As soon as Quiney is fit again, Finch goes out..

 

[Doss]

Been a little surprised at the level of disdain for Carberry in this series. He was far from their worst. And yet you have people like Dobell doing things like this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/707555.html

Anderson, Swann and Chris ****ing Tremlett ahead of him in the ratings? Is this real life?

 

[Howard Moon]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...oolan-to-come-in/story-fndpt0dy-1226796043054

oh well, there goes my no change theory...

Doolan to three, Watson to 6 ?

 

[Kong]

Yeah Doss I don't agree with some of the perceptions/ratings from the series, Carberry and KP in particular.

Both stuck around for longish periods of time, which isn't something most English batsmen were able to do.

Carberry probably shouldn't have been picked to begin with, but he was far from the worst.

 

[Howard Moon]

We are talking about a country that still threw bananas at coloured footballers less than 15 years ago... not that that would affect his ratings?

 

[Doss]

Yeah Doss I don't agree with some of the perceptions/ratings from the series, Carberry and KP in particular.

Both stuck around for longish periods of time, which isn't something most English batsmen were able to do.

Carberry probably shouldn't have been picked to begin with, but he was far from the worst.

Yeah, the treatment of Nick Compton (who has two centuries in his nine Tests, and relatively recently) looks very strange in retrospect.

Do Flower and Cook not like him? Surely his non selection wasn't just about form.

But, Carberry was unlucky on a couple of occasions. That catch by Warner in Adelaide was absurd, and playing on after basically rolling off his leg in Brisbane was stiff too. Yes, he certainly didn't convert his starts anywhere near enough, but it's not like he outright failed either.

Pietersen, I actually understand the criticism of him more. Some of his shots were bad. The first innings at Melbourne, for example- what on earth was that?

 

[Howard Moon]

Yeah, the treatment of Nick Compton (who has two centuries in his nine Tests, and relatively recently) looks very strange in retrospect.

Do Flower and Cook not like him? Surely his non selection wasn't just about form.

But, Carberry was unlucky on a couple of occasions. That catch by Warner in Adelaide was absurd, and playing on after basically rolling off his leg in Brisbane was stiff too. Yes, he certainly didn't convert his starts anywhere near enough, but it's not like he outright failed either.

Pietersen, I actually understand the criticism of him more. Some of his shots were bad. The first innings at Melbourne, for example- what on earth was that?

im not sure if im the only one but this was the first time that i have seen Pietersen as really one dimensional...

as weird as it sounds for such a dynamic player, we just found that way to tie him down and he kept holing out with that same flicky shot to mid wicket/square leg

 

[Yoda_]

Would you guys persist with Carberry?

 

[Doss]

im not sure if im the only one but this was the first time that i have seen Pietersen as really one dimensional...

as weird as it sounds for such a dynamic player, we just found that way to tie him down and he kept holing out with that same flicky shot to mid wicket/square leg

It's no accident that Siddle keeps getting him out- a bowler who can consistently hit a good length that isn't easy to score off.

I don't know if he's one dimensional, per se, but I think his powers might well be beginning to wane.

Yoda_, I'm unsure if I would persist with Carberry. I wouldn't do so with Bairstow, unless Prior is no longer going to be around. But I suspect Prior will come back into the side. They really need to look at getting Compton back in, which would probably spell the end for Carberry in any case.

 

[Jab]

Don't forget Trott to come back when he's addressed whatever he needs to.