Opinion The I Was Wrong thread- Where Tom Atkins posts go to die

[Turbocat]

hmm, where to start..

been some ordinary prognostication on my behalf of late on a couple of fronts, time to put my hand up.

#1 I was pretty sure that Patrick Dangerfield's best was behind him, but he was brilliant last week and really good again this week. Some of his better football; really clean and composed.

#2 I've been a reasonably vocal supporter and advocate of Esava Ratugolea's for a while, but I am starting to think my enthusiasm has been misplaced. There's always been mitigating factors with Ratugolea; he's raw, he's only young, plays a tough position, less than 50 games, continuity and injuries have played a part in dampening his development. But I was with Tom Stewart in the last quarter; Stewart lobs up a solid-enough kick to Ratugolea's advantage, Esava has the 1v1 against a smaller opponent but he misjudges the flight of the ball and doesn't get his positioning right - ends up getting nowhere near it. He doesn't often get out-marked, but the early promise that his contested marking presented has largely diminished.
I thought he actually started ok this afternoon, but he just didn't have enough intensity to stay involved for 4 quarters of football. He will find his opportunities starting to dry up unless he is able to turn things around; his confidence looked rock-bottom by the end of today's match though.

I think Sav is just too reliant on his natural talent. His skils are things you have to work on and then there is the miasma of footy nous which I think is gained somewhere between the bottle and playing U18's. In a way he reminds me of David Clark Jr. I thought he was a prime example of why we sghould have a Father Son academy. With his raw talent he could have / should have been better than he was. Shame. The kicking thing is like having the yips in golf... after a while you start to want the ball so close to the hole cause you do not trust yourself. He is OOC.. would it surprise me if we sign him. No. .. but I can not put my faith in him being Hawks replacement or our next #1.


But as we are in the ..I was wrong thread. I think Henderson has been much better than I thought he could be for us this year. Sometimes lady luck just deals you aces. Without Henderson, we really would not be as good as we have been.

 

[My Tilly]

But as we are in the ..I was wrong thread. I think Henderson has been much better than I thought he could be for us this year. Sometimes lady luck just deals you aces. Without Henderson, we really would not be as good as we have been.

I think we have won a couple extra games solely due to Jeremy Cameron. If he remains at GWS, not sure we are sitting on 12 wins.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I think Sav is just too reliant on his natural talent. His skils are things you have to work on and then there is the miasma of footy nous which I think is gained somewhere between the bottle and playing U18's. In a way he reminds me of David Clark Jr. I thought he was a prime example of why we sghould have a Father Son academy. With his raw talent he could have / should have been better than he was. Shame. The kicking thing is like having the yips in golf... after a while you start to want the ball so close to the hole cause you do not trust yourself. He is OOC.. would it surprise me if we sign him. No. .. but I can not put my faith in him being Hawks replacement or our next #1.


But as we are in the ..I was wrong thread. I think Henderson has been much better than I thought he could be for us this year. Sometimes lady luck just deals you aces. Without Henderson, we really would not be as good as we have been.

You know exactly what you'll get with Henderson. I gave him votes today. Really straightens us up with his kicking and direct running, clever, experienced player.
His lack of reach/vertical leap is a problem against in-form tall forwards, but then again in-form tall forwards are going to trouble most players anyway.

 

[Turbocat]

I think we have won a couple extra games solely due to Jeremy Cameron. If he remains at GWS, not sure we are sitting on 12 wins.

Id sort of agree with that..although its what he does to Rohan and Hawkins... but all three together convert chances. If we had Daniher, McKay and Cameron .. I think we have struggled.

 

[Turbocat]

You know exactly what you'll get with Henderson. I gave him votes today. Really straightens us up with his kicking and direct running, clever, experienced player.
His lack of reach/vertical leap is a problem against in-form tall forwards, but then again in-form tall forwards are going to trouble most players anyway.

This encapsulates the club and CS approach to bringing in and having such a mature side... Imagine a side of talent like Holmes or whatever.

We need to make a call next year to play SDek or we will need to add a FA like Talia or someone else..as I think Hendo may find it hard to go again.

Can some explain why he got booed by the Blues supporters.... Looney tunes.

 

[My Tilly]

Id sort of agree with that..although its what he does to Rohan and Hawkins... but all three together convert chances. If we had Daniher, McKay and Cameron .. I think we have struggled.

Geez, honestly, if we had those three forwards, I think they would be kicking at least 7 between them every single week.
Daniher would be our backup ruck and Cameron complements any key forward as he's brilliant at ground level. McKay is right now a better forward than Hawkins who takes just under 3 contested marks per week. An awesome forward line it would be.

 

[Turbocat]

Geez, honestly, if we had those three forwards, I think they would be kicking at least 7 between them every single week.
Daniher would be our backup ruck and Cameron complements any key forward as he's brilliant at ground level. McKay is right now a better forward than Hawkins who takes just under 3 contested marks per week. An awesome forward line it would be.

Till they fix their kicking....I dont rate them

 

[Cursed Cat]

This encapsulates the club and CS approach to bringing in and having such a mature side... Imagine a side of talent like Holmes or whatever.

We need to make a call next year to play SDek or we will need to add a FA like Talia or someone else..as I think Hendo may find it hard to go again.

Can some explain why he got booed by the Blues supporters.... Looney tunes.

I vaguely recall something about Henderson making his intentions to leave the club known before his last year with the club had finished, was duly ''parked'' in the VFL for the remainder of that season before choofing off. Still, can't recall Carlton fans booing him previously when the two clubs have met.

Anyway he got plenty of the ball today and was only outmarked a couple of times, thought he was very influential. Runs smart, too.

Agree with your broader point about CS and his penchant for maturity/consistency/professionalism over the unpredictability of youth too, Turbo.

 

[catempire]

hmm, where to start..

been some ordinary prognostication on my behalf of late on a couple of fronts, time to put my hand up.

#1 I was pretty sure that Patrick Dangerfield's best was behind him, but he was brilliant last week and really good again this week. Some of his better football; really clean and composed.

#2 I've been a reasonably vocal supporter and advocate of Esava Ratugolea's for a while, but I am starting to think my enthusiasm has been misplaced. There's always been mitigating factors with Ratugolea; he's raw, he's only young, plays a tough position, less than 50 games, continuity and injuries have played a part in dampening his development. But I was with Tom Stewart in the last quarter; Stewart lobs up a solid-enough kick to Ratugolea's advantage, Esava has the 1v1 against a smaller opponent but he misjudges the flight of the ball and doesn't get his positioning right - ends up getting nowhere near it. Stewart looked perplexed. He doesn't often get out-marked, but the early promise that his contested marking presented has largely diminished.
I thought he actually started ok this afternoon, but he just didn't have enough intensity to stay involved for 4 quarters of football. He will find his opportunities starting to dry up unless he is able to turn things around; his confidence looked rock-bottom by the end of today's match though.

edit: oh and last week I implied Max Holmes was more athletic prodigy than footballer, he revealed more about his game today than I'd previously seen at this level though and I won't be implying anything of the sort in a hurry any time soon.

The Stewart kick was shithouse. The down the ground footage showed it gave Ratugolea no chance. Just needed to kick it high.

 

[Cursed Cat]

The Stewart kick wash shithouse. The down the ground footage showed it gave Ratugolea no chance.

hmm I'd like to see that angle then - not saying it was perfect by any means, but from that initial angle it looked contestable

 

[David the Cat]

To me, looked a pretty ordinary entry by Stewart...

 

[goyoucatters]

You know exactly what you'll get with Henderson. I gave him votes today. Really straightens us up with his kicking and direct running, clever, experienced player.
His lack of reach/vertical leap is a problem against in-form tall forwards, but then again in-form tall forwards are going to trouble most players anyway.

Hendo has been excellent in both '20 and '21, really. Does the basics of the game really well, and genuinely tries to play his football in an unflustered way (despite playing in just about the most high pressure position on the ground every single week).

For a player of his age, size and 'athleticism', he actually beats his man & finds his way out into space quite often. And then hits targets in transition regularly. So delighted for him that he's made so much of his second shot with us, and really hoping he gets another shot at a premiership medal later this year.

Top player, and an even better clubman.

 

[Turbocat]

The Stewart kick was shithouse. The down the ground footage showed it gave Ratugolea no chance. Just needed to kick it high.

Id agree with that. He was covered on that kick..It think Sav needed to stop and cut back create separation but he does not do that instinctually atm. He does need to work that stuff as you just will not get given run an jump at FF like you do get around the ground.

 

[catempire]

Id agree with that. He was covered on that kick..It think Sav needed to stop and cut back create separation but he does do that instinctually atm. He does need to work that stuff as you just will not get given run an jump at FF like you do get around the ground.

He has very little forward craft. It’s run and jump at the ball or run like a bull at it on the ground. I don’t think he’s far off clunking 5-6 in a game at some stage but today wasn’t the day for it.

Actually what led to the second set shot he had showed something like what he needs to do more. He held his lead until just the right time and led up the guts into the space at the perfect time. Maybe there’s hope yet… if he can convert those chances.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Hendo has been excellent in both '20 and '21, really. Does the basics of the game really well, and genuinely tries to play his football in an unflustered way (despite playing in just about the most high pressure position on the ground every single week).

For a player of his age, size and 'athleticism', he actually beats his man & finds his way out into space quite often. And then hits targets in transition regularly. So delighted for him that he's made so much of his second shot with us, and really hoping he gets another shot at a premiership medal later this year.

Top player, and an even better clubman.

Agree 1000 %. Gotta thank Ryan Abbott too. Sliding doors moment there.

 

[dazbroncos]

The Stewart kick was shithouse. The down the ground footage showed it gave Ratugolea no chance. Just needed to kick it high.

Agreed - Stewy gave Sav a look I saw on the coverage and pointed but I thought it was more Stewys kick not really to Savs advantage.

Just my take.

Go Catters

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I was wrong to think Richmond were a good chance to play off in the Grand Final against Geelong again this year. Half wrong, maybe




The lid is still on. THE LID IS STILL ON!!!

 

[catscratchfever]

I was wrong to think Hawthorn and Essendon supporters are the biggest flogs in the league. Tuggers win that title by a street.

 

[Seeds]

I was wrong to think Richmond were a good chance to play off in the Grand Final against Geelong again this year. Half wrong, maybe




The lid is still on. THE LID IS STILL ON!!!

I was wrong cos I thought Richmond might finish ninth. They now look like finishing 12th.

 

[Vdubs]

This encapsulates the club and CS approach to bringing in and having such a mature side... Imagine a side of talent like Holmes or whatever.

We need to make a call next year to play SDek or we will need to add a FA like Talia or someone else..as I think Hendo may find it hard to go again.

Can some explain why he got booed by the Blues supporters.... Looney tunes.

I think I can. I work with a guy who is a mad Blues fan (anaesthetist), and he keeps telling me when we catch up monthly that Hendo basically shafted Carlton when he knew he was leaving. Poor attitude, poor training, made it obvious he was leaving. He knows I really rate Hendo as a player, but it seems he did not treat Carlton like GAJ did GC, or Geelong when he left both teams, or like Tim Kelly did at Geelong.
Of course we don't know how true these assertions are, and comments by CS suggest Hendo is the ultimate team-first player, as he has said several times recently. That goes against the criticism of him in his last season at Carlton.
He certainly is Carlton's loss and our gain, whichever way we look at it.

 

[Spearman]

Agree 1000 %. Gotta thank Ryan Abbott too. Sliding doors moment there.

liked because I agree with your agreement ,
and for correct usage of 'sliding doors moment'

 

[Turbocat]

I think I can. I work with a guy who is a mad Blues fan (anaesthetist), and he keeps telling me when we catch up monthly that Hendo basically shafted Carlton when he knew he was leaving. Poor attitude, poor training, made it obvious he was leaving. He knows I really rate Hendo as a player, but it seems he did not treat Carlton like GAJ did GC, or Geelong when he left both teams, or like Tim Kelly did at Geelong.
Of course we don't know how true these assertions are, and comments by CS suggest Hendo is the ultimate team-first player, as he has said several times recently. That goes against the criticism of him in his last season at Carlton.
He certainly is Carlton's loss and our gain, whichever way we look at it.

I have known a few Carlton supporters over the years. It started with Mother Mary of the immaculate conception when at primary school. Always told me I was wearing a Carlton beanie cause it was navy blue and white. Maybe its different now after 2 decade of struggle street but nearly all I have ever known have reeked the sweet sickly smell of self entitlement. They booed 2e as well. I think it was more about just an ex player who dared leave them. You either with them or against them etc..

That excuse sounds like the man is a professional that deals with drugs on a daily basis. Its shaving the square block to make it fit the round hole. Carlton wanted to turn the list over and they got an R1 for him. In actual fact he should have been a FA but thats a different discussion.

There was a recent flittertwitter post, (what ever they are called ), by Paul Chapman . He made a comment about someone, a premiership player (cant remember who) was getting booed and said something like it showed him how well Geelong faithful treated him.

 

[goyoucatters]

I think I can. I work with a guy who is a mad Blues fan (anaesthetist), and he keeps telling me when we catch up monthly that Hendo basically shafted Carlton when he knew he was leaving. Poor attitude, poor training, made it obvious he was leaving. He knows I really rate Hendo as a player, but it seems he did not treat Carlton like GAJ did GC, or Geelong when he left both teams, or like Tim Kelly did at Geelong.
Of course we don't know how true these assertions are, and comments by CS suggest Hendo is the ultimate team-first player, as he has said several times recently. That goes against the criticism of him in his last season at Carlton.
He certainly is Carlton's loss and our gain, whichever way we look at it.

It does appear there was a real problem between the parties when he left Carlton. Still, it hardly squares with the image of Hendo that has emerged throughout the remainder of his career. And, for myself, I still find the booing to be an utterly ridiculous, inane and pathetic response to whatever went on while he was there. Says it all that when my son was asking me during the game why the Blues fans were booing their former players, I just had to roll my eyes and shake my head.

In my experience, defending the antics of people behaving with no imagination and no class is a seriously difficult challenge.

 

[My Tilly]

I was wrong cos I thought Richmond might finish ninth. They now look like finishing 12th.

You called it a month ago.
I'm still worried about them to be honest even despite their current form line. If they get back some of those injured players and do somehow scrape into the finals, there's just enough quality to spark a revival for at least a 2 week stretch in September.

 

[Spearman]

I think I can. I work with a guy who is a mad Blues fan (anaesthetist), and he keeps telling me when we catch up monthly that Hendo basically shafted Carlton when he knew he was leaving. Poor attitude, poor training, made it obvious he was leaving. He knows I really rate Hendo as a player, but it seems he did not treat Carlton like GAJ did GC, or Geelong when he left both teams, or like Tim Kelly did at Geelong.
Of course we don't know how true these assertions are, and comments by CS suggest Hendo is the ultimate team-first player, as he has said several times recently. That goes against the criticism of him in his last season at Carlton.
He certainly is Carlton's loss and our gain, whichever way we look at it.

I remember during his last few years there, a report that he wasn't happy being thrown forward, as he had grown up as a dedicated defender. Couldn't tell by his playing, until that last season. He was one of their more consistent forwards at the time IIRC.
Anyway I totally agree with the assessment of his footy smarts. Makes his moves immediately and decisively. You have to wonder if he has the demeanor and communication skills to be a good coach. Would be a good resource.