Opinion The I Was Wrong thread- Where Tom Atkins posts go to die

[allrighty]

I'd happily give the man a kidney if he ever needed one

Lamb or one of yours?

 

[feelinfeline]

Did close have to run 16km again this game to get his 12 touches?

Close is developing but at this stage he's a barely serviceable small forward.

Nothing Seeds has said about close is incorrect. I don't think anyone hates him as a player as he has shown clean hand and looks to be a clever player at times. But let's not pretend he is a gun small forward when he doesn't know how to rove packs and kick goals.

His five tackles can't be separated from his 12 touches. His tackle pressure is an essential part of his importance to the team.

And 12 clean and constructive disposals are worth more than 20 not so clean and constructive ones.

 

[Cataholic]

remember the GFC board accepts all types of footy knowledge and levels of footy intellect within reason - thus they have a home here even as wildly inaccurate as they may be.

And we all have the wrongs - some just hang onto them WAY Longer and harder than others irrespective of reality.

Go CAtters

The vast array of perspectives here makes for an interesting melting pot.

 

[catempire]

For an apparent "forward pocket", he seems to spend a hell of a lot of game time further up the ground and not really that deep or close to goal - almost like he's not actually a designated forward pocket goal sneak

View attachment 1179237


Maybe that's where you're going wrong in your assessment of Close and not understanding his role in the team

The role of “forward pocket” or even “full forward” we have as concepts in our minds from growing up watching the game are outdated and no longer relevant in the modern game.

There are no positions on the ground any more that don’t involve many kilometres of running up and down the ground. This is how the game is coached and what is required if you are to compete defensively with the best teams.

So it’s weird when I see someone saying Miers should stay inside 50 or Close’s possessions are all up the ground. What matters is: are they effective?

Miers had 20 possessions, kicked a goal and was involved in 5 other scores.

Close had 12 possessions (100% effective), kicked a goal, had 40 pressure points, had 2 goal assists and four score involvements.

Anyone that thinks these two didn’t play well doesn’t understand the game.

 

[FredLeDeux]

The role of “forward pocket” or even “full forward” we have as concepts in our minds from growing up watching the game are outdated and no longer relevant in the modern game.

There are no positions on the ground any more that don’t involve many kilometres of running up and down the ground. This is how the game is coached and what is required if you are to compete defensively with the best teams.

So it’s weird when I see someone saying Miers should stay inside 50 or Close’s possessions are all up the ground. What matters is: are they effective?

Miers had 20 possessions, kicked a goal and was involved in 5 other scores.

Close had 12 possessions (100% effective), kicked a goal, had 40 pressure points, had 2 goal assists and four score involvements.

Anyone that thinks these two didn’t play well doesn’t understand the game.

You've actually nailed the problem Seeds has in analysing both games generally and individual players.
First, he arbitrarily allocates each player to a "position", rather than to a role; which means that his analysis is necessarily flawed from the outset, since "positions" were replaced by roles some time last century.
But then he doubles down on this fundamental error by arbitrarily ruling on what a player in his anachronistic so-called "position" needs to do to be successful in that "position", without giving any justification for his idiosyncratic ruling.
These are very odd proceedings for someone who constantly harps on how rational he is; logic is not worth a pinch of shit when your premises are complete fantasy.
He is really living in the 70s.

 

[Seeds]

Close has played 22 games yet is already among our best decision-makers and ball users. That is a remarkable comparison given the experience and quality of the playing group around him.

He is so clean with the ball—a one-touch player when receiving and releasing possession. He is efficient, rarely wasting disposal. His read of the game is exceptional; he has that un-coachable knack of anticipating the play. He runs to excellent spots, is quick to close down space, and tackles well for a lighter built player. He knows when to stay out of a contest and when to go.

His performance this week was excellent: 100% disposal efficiency in the wet, great poise to nail a long-range set shot from the boundary, the deft pass to Hawkins advantage, the chase-down tackles, etc.

There's so much to like about this footballer for those capable of seeing beyond the 'Hollywood' stuff.

I agree with Most of this. not all but most.

 

[Down at K Park]

are you upset that it’s been pointed out he doesn’t have this skill set or upset cos you don’t think it’s important?

It’s idiotic cause you keep pointing out he’s a forward pocket who needs to crumb. Yet then you pot him for “not breaking lines”. In your point about being a small forward why the hell would he need to break lines? Talk about completely twisting yourself in knots.

He’s a playmaker who creates forward movement through clever handballs to feed open players. If you think he isn’t contributing to us getting the ball inside 50 then you really have nfi.

 

[Cattery]

Close has played 22 games yet is already among our best decision-makers and ball users. That is a remarkable comparison given the experience and quality of the playing group around him.

He is so clean with the ball—a one-touch player when receiving and releasing possession. He is efficient, rarely wasting disposal. His read of the game is exceptional; he has that un-coachable knack of anticipating the play. He runs to excellent spots, is quick to close down space, and tackles well for a lighter built player. He knows when to stay out of a contest and when to go.

His performance this week was excellent: 100% disposal efficiency in the wet, great poise to nail a long-range set shot from the boundary, the deft pass to Hawkins advantage, the chase-down tackles, etc.

There's so much to like about this footballer for those capable of seeing beyond the 'Hollywood' stuff.

Agree one hundred percent with everything you said, best analysis of Close I've seen. Has almost scary football nous for someone with just twenty two games under his belt.

I know this is the "I was wrong" thread, so I'll post something pertinent to the topic just as soon as I'm wrong about something, which hasn't happened yet.

 

[Cattery]

I agree with Most of this. not all but most.

Needs to improve his "shimmy" ya reckon?

 

[Seeds]

Did close have to run 16km again this game to get his 12 touches?

Close is developing but at this stage he's a barely serviceable small forward.

Nothing Seeds has said about close is incorrect. I don't think anyone hates him as a player as he has shown clean hand and looks to be a clever player at times. But let's not pretend he is a gun small forward when he doesn't know how to rove packs and kick goals.

He is either a small forward who can’t find the ball deep in the foward line in open play or is a midfielder who struggles to anticipate the play cos he only gets 12 touches a game. They can’t have it both ways.

 

[Seeds]

Needs to improve his "shimmy" ya reckon?

Needs to have a shimmy for a start.

 

[Seeds]

Agree one hundred percent with everything you said, best analysis of Close I've seen. Has almost scary football nous for someone with just twenty two games under his belt.

I know this is the "I was wrong" thread, so I'll post something pertinent to the topic just as soon as I'm wrong about something, which hasn't happened yet.

A small foward with scary football nous could um maybe rove a pack at least once in a month.

close has pretty good vision with his handball Once he has ball in hand.

but anticipating where the ball will land appears to be a big weakness.

 

[cats_09]

Considering we had 28 marks inside 50 on Thursday night, how many opportunities was there really for any players to crumb off a pack

 

[Seeds]

Considering we had 28 marks inside 50 on Thursday night, how many opportunities was there really for any players to crumb off a pack

How many foward fifties did we have? It’s also not a one game issue. It’s his whole career. I see a lot of positives with close as well. But he lacks in a couple of key areas for his position that puts a big ceiling on him being a foward pocket.

 

[feelinfeline]

Here's some reading material on him, with edited highlights below:

Brad Close - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

Ex-North Gambier footballer joins elite company on debut with first kick

ALL eyes were focused on the AFL clash between Fremantle and Geelong on Monday night as former North Gambier player [...]

borderwatch.com.au

‘Chameleon’ Close happy blending into the background

Geelong's Brad Close is flying under the radar as a key contributor in the Cats' star-studded forward line.

www.aflplayers.com.au

As for his disposals by hand, Close said it was a part of his game he took pride in.

“That is something I like to pride myself on, being clean and taking my opportunities,” he said.

“It is also the way we play at Geelong, to keep in tight with our handball and support around the contest.

“I was pretty happy to come in and play my role that way.”

“He just does the same things now at AFL level as what he did for us as back home as a 15-year-old in our senior team,” Justin McConnell, Close’s coach at North Gambier Football Club, told aflplayers.com.au.

“He doesn’t fumble, he’s extremely unselfish and he makes good decisions with the ball.”

“I always look to be respected by my teammates and I base my game off the things that I can control, like energy and pressure and things like that,” Close said.

“I love kicking a goal if I can, but if it means my teammate kicks an easier goal… as a forward group we’re all working towards one thing and that’s winning the premiership, so it doesn’t bother me who kicks the goals at the end of the day.”

 

[Seeds]

You've actually nailed the problem Seeds has in analysing both games generally and individual players.
First, he arbitrarily allocates each player to a "position", rather than to a role; which means that his analysis is necessarily flawed from the outset, since "positions" were replaced by roles some time last century.
But then he doubles down on this fundamental error by arbitrarily ruling on what a player in his anachronistic so-called "position" needs to do to be successful in that "position", without giving any justification for his idiosyncratic ruling.
These are very odd proceedings for someone who constantly harps on how rational he is; logic is not worth a pinch of sh*t when your premises are complete fantasy.
He is really living in the 70s.

That’s actually a post worthy of a response

 

[Sttew]

Here's some reading material on him, with edited highlights below:

Brad Close - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

Ex-North Gambier footballer joins elite company on debut with first kick

ALL eyes were focused on the AFL clash between Fremantle and Geelong on Monday night as former North Gambier player [...]

borderwatch.com.au

‘Chameleon’ Close happy blending into the background

Geelong's Brad Close is flying under the radar as a key contributor in the Cats' star-studded forward line.

www.aflplayers.com.au

As for his disposals by hand, Close said it was a part of his game he took pride in.

“That is something I like to pride myself on, being clean and taking my opportunities,” he said.

“It is also the way we play at Geelong, to keep in tight with our handball and support around the contest.

“I was pretty happy to come in and play my role that way.”

“He just does the same things now at AFL level as what he did for us as back home as a 15-year-old in our senior team,” Justin McConnell, Close’s coach at North Gambier Football Club, told aflplayers.com.au.

“He doesn’t fumble, he’s extremely unselfish and he makes good decisions with the ball.”

“I always look to be respected by my teammates and I base my game off the things that I can control, like energy and pressure and things like that,” Close said.

“I love kicking a goal if I can, but if it means my teammate kicks an easier goal… as a forward group we’re all working towards one thing and that’s winning the premiership, so it doesn’t bother me who kicks the goals at the end of the day.”

Close’s development is so impressive. But he looks like he hasnt slept in ages

 

[PhatBoy]

How many foward fifties did we have? It’s also not a one game issue. It’s his whole career. I see a lot of positives with close as well. But he lacks in a couple of key areas for his position that puts a big ceiling on him being a foward pocket.

What’s he supposed to do, crumb every single ball?

he is not there to do the job you seem to be convinced he is there to do. We don’t have Hawkins, Ratugolea, Cameron, Rohan, Dangerfield, and more and more often Tuohy in our forward line to bring the ball to ground. We have them there to mark either contested or uncontested and kick goals. We have Gryan Miers who is clearly designated as someone who’s focus is to impact the scoreboard. We have seemingly two players in Dahlhaus and Close who’s job it is to keep that ball at that end of the field and make it difficult for the opposition to get it out of there. If I didn’t know better based on recent evidence, they seem to be doing quite a decent job of it

 

[feelinfeline]

There aren’t enough places to fit everyone in. Will they pick both Close and and Dahlhaus (and Miers) come finals time?

There’s also Simpson who they obviously like but who has limited time to get form and match fitness. And Evans, who’s probably unlikely.

It will depend on form, match ups and other variables.

I would say Close at this stage is ahead of any of them.

 

[David the Cat]

Back on topic please....this is not the Brad Close thread.

I was wrong to come here and read some of the nonsense posted about Close. At least Nankervis brothers and catempire added some sanity to the discussion.

That said, back on topic please.

 

[Vdubs]

You've actually nailed the problem Seeds has in analysing both games generally and individual players.
First, he arbitrarily allocates each player to a "position", rather than to a role; which means that his analysis is necessarily flawed from the outset, since "positions" were replaced by roles some time last century.
But then he doubles down on this fundamental error by arbitrarily ruling on what a player in his anachronistic so-called "position" needs to do to be successful in that "position", without giving any justification for his idiosyncratic ruling.
These are very odd proceedings for someone who constantly harps on how rational he is; logic is not worth a pinch of sh*t when your premises are complete fantasy.
He is really living in the 70s.

 

[gaz love x]

I think I'm on record as saying Kreuger would be delisted without playing a game and, well, I'm wrong in that at least. I thought the move to defence was desperation since he wasn't up to it as a forward but maybe it's going to work out. Will be handy if it does, hopefully he does well.

 

[cats_09]

I think I'm on record as saying Kreuger would be delisted without playing a game and, well, I'm wrong in that at least. I thought the move to defence was desperation since he wasn't up to it as a forward but maybe it's going to work out. Will be handy if it does, hopefully he does well.

I thought he was in line for delisting at the end of the season, and only getting closer to that with the injuries during the year

Happy to see him debut tomorrow because he has looked good this year when he's been out on the ground

 

[Baudolino]

I believed Clarko when he said he would fulfill his contract until the end of 2022.

 

[bellpark]

It’s idiotic cause you keep pointing out he’s a forward pocket who needs to crumb. Yet then you pot him for “not breaking lines”. In your point about being a small forward why the hell would he need to break lines? Talk about completely twisting yourself in knots.

He’s a playmaker who creates forward movement through clever handballs to feed open players. If you think he isn’t contributing to us getting the ball inside 50 then you really have nfi.

Couldn’t agree more. Close is performing a key role in our overall pressure/shape/ball movement. Scott has said as much. He is the most elite runner in the team, amd that helps even more with Duncan out. Think Seeds is missing the nuances here.