God I wish I could remember 95! I was 11
The McGovern conundrum
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thylacine60
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God I wish I could remember my name...............
He needs to actually play for the original statement to be true. Right now his Shadow may have a few covered. There is no basis for his play to be compared.
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If the reports of the club low balling Jack this offseason are true, it may indicate the perceived value of each player internally.
Or it may also indicate how close to TPP the club is that we have to squeeze contracts.
Elmer_Judd
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Is it just me or through the mists of times, due to how much more faster and physically taxing from an endurance point of view that there is a lot more injuries happening these days (to all clubs and players) than there was back then (especially soft tissue/hamstring problems)
Luck does play a part of it in winning flags these days too, has to be said. Although Melbourne was clearly the best team overall in season 2021, their last 45 minutes of actual gametime in the Grand Final was some of the most breathtaking football i have ever seen in my life, esp in a GF.
Having a top fitness guru in Burgess was a significant factor for their success this year imo.
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Agree no doubt there will be a squeeze this year - so many coming out of contract, list spots & cash is going to be an issue.
Important year for Marchbank, Cunningham, Dow, Kennedy + Walsh's contract
2023 will have McKay, Charlie, Jack, Plowman as restricted free agents.
Will have no choice but to hit the draft next 2-3 years, I reckon
Yup 12 listed players will be OOC end 2022, so major list review & overhaul is eminent 2022/23 and absolutely necessary.
So perhaps we’ll trade up draft this year for my favorite HWM and trading back into next years draft? it will be a fine balance, comfortable that Nick Austin and recruiting team have done the due diligence and have a solid plan ahead and I’m prepared for the exciting times ahead at CFC, Go Blues
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22, not 12 (including rookies)
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I think the lowballing had a bit of a point to it. We needed a number of players to take a paycut to get Cerra and Hewitt, and we had a host of players to re-sign. And it made for a decent way to check levels of commitment; ie, if a player isn't willing to sign for unders, how committed to the club are they in the first place?
They arent true!
Justnetime
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Lots of different perspectives.
The one I was personally most interested in and the vote shows this up. Generally as a group we have JSoS ahead for the third tall forward spot. And rightly so as he deserves it. Not many willing to put McGovern ahead for the third tall fwd role. This is the key point as all other eventualities are low odds for McGovern personally.
The second take away is about half the group like his skill set and want to give him a second go somewhere. The other 50 want him to prove himself First.
Lastly, we have got to say the captain obvious; for a senior wage player, we have got a poor return.
The one I was personally most interested in and the vote shows this up. Generally as a group we have JSoS ahead for the third tall forward spot. And rightly so as he deserves it. Not many willing to put McGovern ahead for the third tall fwd role. This is the key point as all other eventualities are low odds for McGovern personally.
The second take away is about half the group like his skill set and want to give him a second go somewhere. The other 50 want him to prove himself First.
Lastly, we have got to say the captain obvious; for a senior wage player, we have got a poor return.
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I wanted McGovern when we got him. I recognise others were reluctant. I wasn’t. I saw a footballer, a guy who could read the game. We had few of them on our list. And while I saw a third tall as a cream on the cake type of player (and we had no cake), we ultimately had so few mature bodies, I thought it was worthwhile bringing him in.
Others worried about the cost in draft picks. I wasn’t fussed. Others worried about the cost in contract. I just figure you overpay to get someone to move clubs to a bottom of the ladder team. One thing I didn’t appreciate at the time was the length of contract. I honestly don’t remember it being reported it was so long. Every year I think we are just about there, and then someone pipes up the contract has a while to expire.
For me, he is a natural forward. Those hands are great, and the goal kicking is good. But he has to be able to get on the park consistently. The back fracture was a nasty injury. How far did it set him back? Did it undermine the rest of his fitness so that he is so injury prone? I don’t know.
But Voss is clearly about contested footy. I don’t know that Gov’s body will cope. The focus has to be on a solid block of football. If he can do that, he’s our best option for third tall forward. But to be honest, I don’t see him being able to put it together. I think it will be interesting to see if another club takes a punt on getting his body right when we eventually part ways.
Others worried about the cost in draft picks. I wasn’t fussed. Others worried about the cost in contract. I just figure you overpay to get someone to move clubs to a bottom of the ladder team. One thing I didn’t appreciate at the time was the length of contract. I honestly don’t remember it being reported it was so long. Every year I think we are just about there, and then someone pipes up the contract has a while to expire.
For me, he is a natural forward. Those hands are great, and the goal kicking is good. But he has to be able to get on the park consistently. The back fracture was a nasty injury. How far did it set him back? Did it undermine the rest of his fitness so that he is so injury prone? I don’t know.
But Voss is clearly about contested footy. I don’t know that Gov’s body will cope. The focus has to be on a solid block of football. If he can do that, he’s our best option for third tall forward. But to be honest, I don’t see him being able to put it together. I think it will be interesting to see if another club takes a punt on getting his body right when we eventually part ways.
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But now we've got Andrew Russell, that should turn around any day now....
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Faster, better leap and much better kick at goal than JSOS but hasn't ever showed the same level of effort or team first work.
i'd have them on a level, if both fit, and pick three of Jack, Mitch, Curnow & McKay based on form and fitness.
I refuse to believe we'll have all four fit for long periods.
i'd have them on a level, if both fit, and pick three of Jack, Mitch, Curnow & McKay based on form and fitness.
I refuse to believe we'll have all four fit for long periods.
JSos could also play this role IMO
Seems like a Stuey Dew type to me. The kind that can rip a game apart in a 15 minute burst but do nothing for the rest of the game. Whether we can afford to carry that luxury is more the question for me.
Navy_Blueblood
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At this stage, it's forward or nothing with Gov in my opinion. Without addressing the following areas, I don't think Gov is suited to the backline:
The second point is also not as important for a third / intercepting defender (compared to a KPD) but he will still have a lot of one on ones. As a forward, I felt that Gov could be very easily pushed off the ball or otherwise be physically beaten in a contest. That's a big issue as a defender. Maybe injuries have played their part and he will be stronger next year. We will see.
I have not factored Gov into my hopes for next year. It will be a bonus if he lifts in whatever position he can take in the 22.
- defensive, combative mindset
- physical strength
The second point is also not as important for a third / intercepting defender (compared to a KPD) but he will still have a lot of one on ones. As a forward, I felt that Gov could be very easily pushed off the ball or otherwise be physically beaten in a contest. That's a big issue as a defender. Maybe injuries have played their part and he will be stronger next year. We will see.
I have not factored Gov into my hopes for next year. It will be a bonus if he lifts in whatever position he can take in the 22.
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Fair enough.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Gov is plenty combative. Definitely has a bit of mongrel.
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thylacine60
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please god he gives that puerile pinky finger gesture away as a goal celebration - idiotic & cringe-worthy - just the goals, rinse, repeat, all that's required.....
Elmer_Judd
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Not giving up Gov just yet..
I still hold out hopes he could be as important to our forward line structure as The Duke was (Earl Spalding)
I still hold out hopes he could be as important to our forward line structure as The Duke was (Earl Spalding)
McGovern is one of those players who is an enormous talent but is very frustrating because his talents haven't translated to performance. He's one of those untapped talents at the club. He ticks most of the boxes for ability but has not consistently performed which for many of us is frustrating as hell. This is a guy who could be an extremely good player but we haven't got it out of him.
He's a medium-tall player who can play taller than he is because he's strong, has good hands and has a good leap but he's also fast and agile for his height so there is also that ability to play smaller than what he is. That to me suggests that a third in line tall forward or defender role is one he should be able to play.
Footy is in his blood, he comes from a footballing family, we all know his brother is an elite key defender however like Mitch has had his injury issues too but just not to the extent. So footy IQ is probably there in some areas at least, most likely in defence.
He struggled in the role of third tall forward and it wasn't because he was lazy as many have eluded to. He just may not have the footy IQ for this role which is fine. Matthew Lloyd had no idea how to play CHF but was a brilliant FF. When he's played well it has been as a more focal target such as full forward or CHF and not as a flanker or a pocket where he's mostly played. It's a difficult role to play and one he is either not good at or the coaching made it hard for him. Either way it comes back to coaching if you can't get the best out of a player. Teague was poor at identifying what players where good at and what they weren't good at. He either should have changed his role or changed how he played this role.
I think we will change how he plays forward or we will play him back. You could move him up the pecking order and play him as a full forward and have McKay or Curnow play around him out of the pocket. This may work very well. It makes McKay a deeper target and might even open up space for him while getting the ball into McGovern's hands more which for us is a good thing as he's probably our best set shot for goal. Or you have McGovern playing CHF and McKay and Curnow deeper and more dangerous. I say if you give him a forward role you give him one he knows how to play and plays well, not one he struggles in.
The other option for McGovern is defence. It's been tried in small doses and he has never looked out of place. You do a preseason with the defenders, you train with them and you learn the system there and you get him ready to play this role. His brother has a great defensive brain, there is no reason Mitch doesn't, he's just been played mostly forward. He probably replaces Plowman who is adequate but far from great as a third tall. He's better in every way to Plowman athletically, he gives us a third tall who won't be exploited for speed or agility and can play taller and drop off his man to intercept and give a chopout to the key defenders. With his strength and athleticism he should be able to cover smaller players as well.
McGovern has the aerial ability, strength and speed to go with a Dustin Martin, Bailey Fritsch, Jaidyen Stevenson or Jordan DeGoey types. These sort of medium forwards towel us up every year because we don't have a player who can match them for speed, strength and height. It's our big weak area back there. McGovern is strong but he's also quick. According to GPS data only Saad is quicker at Carlton. This means he should be able to play on the smaller quicker forwards. We might have to tell Saad to lock down at times but we are better if he's playing high and being creative and he does this better naturally. Having a tallish player who can take quick smalls is hard to find but if you find one you are very very lucky to have them. He's actually quick enough to take guys like Charlie Cameron or Kysaiah Pickett. He has elite speed. He just needs to be told to use his size and stay goal side. The other aspect is his aerial ability. We don't have that third tall who can drop off their man and intercept mark or help out Weitering and Jones and give them a chop out. McGovern would be able to do this, particularly if he happens to read the game in defence as well as his big brother does. This is something we must try because we are desperate for a player of these capabilities in defence and he has all the tools athletically, it's just a matter of the coaches making this happen and getting this out of him and mostly, keeping him fit.
The main thing with him is to get him going and get him fit. Being physically fit and match fit are huge and IMO he's never had both. He's probably gained match fitness at times but not physical fitness and when it has appeared he has got physically fit he has broken down. If we can get him right we will more than likely have a valuable player on our hands but if not he will go down as a huge waste of talent.
He's a lot like Marchbank, he's an untapped talent and would be a shame to waste that talent, but he's struggled to get fit and stay fit.
If it were up to me I would be looking at playing him in defence as that third tall defender. He has everything that you need to be elite in this role, he just needs time to settle in and to stay fit and it's a big issue for us as we do not have a good third tall defender and are badly needing one. He might just fill that role.
He's a medium-tall player who can play taller than he is because he's strong, has good hands and has a good leap but he's also fast and agile for his height so there is also that ability to play smaller than what he is. That to me suggests that a third in line tall forward or defender role is one he should be able to play.
Footy is in his blood, he comes from a footballing family, we all know his brother is an elite key defender however like Mitch has had his injury issues too but just not to the extent. So footy IQ is probably there in some areas at least, most likely in defence.
He struggled in the role of third tall forward and it wasn't because he was lazy as many have eluded to. He just may not have the footy IQ for this role which is fine. Matthew Lloyd had no idea how to play CHF but was a brilliant FF. When he's played well it has been as a more focal target such as full forward or CHF and not as a flanker or a pocket where he's mostly played. It's a difficult role to play and one he is either not good at or the coaching made it hard for him. Either way it comes back to coaching if you can't get the best out of a player. Teague was poor at identifying what players where good at and what they weren't good at. He either should have changed his role or changed how he played this role.
I think we will change how he plays forward or we will play him back. You could move him up the pecking order and play him as a full forward and have McKay or Curnow play around him out of the pocket. This may work very well. It makes McKay a deeper target and might even open up space for him while getting the ball into McGovern's hands more which for us is a good thing as he's probably our best set shot for goal. Or you have McGovern playing CHF and McKay and Curnow deeper and more dangerous. I say if you give him a forward role you give him one he knows how to play and plays well, not one he struggles in.
The other option for McGovern is defence. It's been tried in small doses and he has never looked out of place. You do a preseason with the defenders, you train with them and you learn the system there and you get him ready to play this role. His brother has a great defensive brain, there is no reason Mitch doesn't, he's just been played mostly forward. He probably replaces Plowman who is adequate but far from great as a third tall. He's better in every way to Plowman athletically, he gives us a third tall who won't be exploited for speed or agility and can play taller and drop off his man to intercept and give a chopout to the key defenders. With his strength and athleticism he should be able to cover smaller players as well.
McGovern has the aerial ability, strength and speed to go with a Dustin Martin, Bailey Fritsch, Jaidyen Stevenson or Jordan DeGoey types. These sort of medium forwards towel us up every year because we don't have a player who can match them for speed, strength and height. It's our big weak area back there. McGovern is strong but he's also quick. According to GPS data only Saad is quicker at Carlton. This means he should be able to play on the smaller quicker forwards. We might have to tell Saad to lock down at times but we are better if he's playing high and being creative and he does this better naturally. Having a tallish player who can take quick smalls is hard to find but if you find one you are very very lucky to have them. He's actually quick enough to take guys like Charlie Cameron or Kysaiah Pickett. He has elite speed. He just needs to be told to use his size and stay goal side. The other aspect is his aerial ability. We don't have that third tall who can drop off their man and intercept mark or help out Weitering and Jones and give them a chop out. McGovern would be able to do this, particularly if he happens to read the game in defence as well as his big brother does. This is something we must try because we are desperate for a player of these capabilities in defence and he has all the tools athletically, it's just a matter of the coaches making this happen and getting this out of him and mostly, keeping him fit.
The main thing with him is to get him going and get him fit. Being physically fit and match fit are huge and IMO he's never had both. He's probably gained match fitness at times but not physical fitness and when it has appeared he has got physically fit he has broken down. If we can get him right we will more than likely have a valuable player on our hands but if not he will go down as a huge waste of talent.
He's a lot like Marchbank, he's an untapped talent and would be a shame to waste that talent, but he's struggled to get fit and stay fit.
If it were up to me I would be looking at playing him in defence as that third tall defender. He has everything that you need to be elite in this role, he just needs time to settle in and to stay fit and it's a big issue for us as we do not have a good third tall defender and are badly needing one. He might just fill that role.
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Justnetime
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McGovern over his career averages 13 games a season and 10 possessions. It just illustrates an underwhelming history.
Some are getting carried away by those 5 minute bursts which are good.
Some are getting carried away by those 5 minute bursts which are good.
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