No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[Oldman Docker]

Oh, ok you just wanted to say the exact same thing again and not actually take in anything I said.

Carry on ranting olddocker.

Sorry Unique name, that wasn't my intention but I do believe I answered your thoughts, although I can get lost in my own thoughts.

I do think Brad Hill for Mayne was a good trade on a player for player basis,absolutely, however from a character perspective I am yet to be convinced, were you to plot their respective performances on a trend line I would dare say Mayne on a wing is trending upward, Hill seems to going backward after an outstanding first year. Mayne could have walked away, but has put his head down, copped the criticism and now has a permanent position on a wing in a top 4 side.

The element that you seem not to want to discuss is the series of off-field misdemeanors carried out by our playing group - if basic behavioral standards can't be met away from the field, do you think these type of attitudinal problems fester into training standards and application? How does a coaching group demand standards when those in charge are not held accountable for their performances? That's my main point.

I disagree that standards are being set and upheld - why, because the behavior seems to indicate otherwise, not just once but consistently.

Joel Hamling has been a fantastic acquisition and a shining light in a very dull year, Nathan Wilson, I'm not so sure about either, his body language and admonishing of fellow players is a touch Goddard like and defensively, in a weak team he is being found out. His right foot is a weapon though, and one I wish we used further up the ground.

Kingswood - in 2018 we have one pick in the top 75 as it currently stands, yet we will likely retire Johnson, Pearce, Spurr, Ballantyne and potentially Sandilands.

Do we replace these servants with more Scott Jones/Norths/Meeks? What are we building?

 

[G Mus]

What the...

I just got out of this thread, went into the Bennell thread, and made a beeline back here again.

I really want to know how Harley can re-injure his calf after all the caution, precaution, and extra extra precaution that were supposedly put in place???!!

Because we don't have some of those mythical s+c and medical staff that apparently exist who fix all injuries

We should sack them all and then everyone will be shocked when our injury list doubles for the next few years


And in the off chance we do pull a slight improvement from somewhere we're probably going to spend a big bulk of the soft cap to manage to get a few people of reknown to want to work in Perth

And the CBA on that would be shocking. I wonder what value we put on 1-5 total less injury/games per season

Maybe we should invest in bioflow bracelets or whatever non-evidence based fad is popular right now, pre season cult camps? Or did we miss the boat on that one too

 

[Oldman Docker]

Culture is a buzz-word that's essentially just media-speak. I wouldn't pay any attention to it.

Why would you not pay attention to it?

It's an intangible that drives all high performing units, on very rare occasions talent will override toxic cultures, and inevitably when the fall comes, a club or an organization unravels very quickly, and very violently, we need only to look down the road to see an example of how not to enforce off-field standards.

 

[danstar]

fair dinkum if at the end of this season we dont cut the following we are a joke of a club

Ross Lyon
Weber and the rest of the medical staff on our team
Harley Bennell
all the others i thought that need to be cut are already being cut
Ballantyne
Pearce
Johnson

 

[Midnite65]

Sorry Unique name, that wasn't my intention but I do believe I answered your thoughts, although I can get lost in my own thoughts.

I do think Brad Hill for Mayne was a good trade on a player for player basis,absolutely, however from a character perspective I am yet to be convinced, were you to plot their respective performances on a trend line I would dare say Mayne on a wing is trending upward, Hill seems to going backward after an outstanding first year. Mayne could have walked away, but has put his head down, copped the criticism and now has a permanent position on a wing in a top 4 side.

The element that you seem not to want to discuss is the series of off-field misdemeanors carried out by our playing group - if basic behavioral standards can't be met away from the field, do you think these type of attitudinal problems fester into training standards and application? How does a coaching group demand standards when those in charge are not held accountable for their performances? That's my main point.

I disagree that standards are being set and upheld - why, because the behavior seems to indicate otherwise, not just once but consistently.

Joel Hamling has been a fantastic acquisition and a shining light in a very dull year, Nathan Wilson, I'm not so sure about either, his body language and admonishing of fellow players is a touch Goddard like and defensively, in a weak team he is being found out. His right foot is a weapon though, and one I wish we used further up the ground.

Kingswood - in 2018 we have one pick in the top 75 as it currently stands, yet we will likely retire Johnson, Pearce, Spurr, Ballantyne and potentially Sandilands.

Do we replace these servants with more Scott Jones/Norths/Meeks? What are we building?

They could just as easily be the next "McGoverns, Menegolas, or Kelly's" as well, there would be plenty of potential running around in comps like the WAFL that we could still use.

 

[Oldman Docker]

They could just as easily be the next "McGoverns, Menegolas, or Kelly's" as well, there would be plenty of potential running around in comps like the WAFL that we could still use.

Of course they could be, but the very names you rattled off are success stories spread across a number of clubs, no isolated to one club. If we are pinning our list build on players pick late 50's an onward what are we really doing except buying time for a few more years?

 

[yoong]

Because we don't have some of those mythical s+c and medical staff that apparently exist who fix all injuries

Nonsense! We just need to grab the Port medico that fixed Robbie Gray head within that week!!!

Maybe we should invest in bioflow bracelets or whatever non-evidence based fad is popular right now, pre season cult camps? Or did we miss the boat on that one too

Interestingly. I walked into one of those shops and the sales person tried to prove the “magical” properties where a bottle of water seems lighter after I wore it. Unfortunately, I’m too devoid of faith for it to work on me. That or he did the trick wrong
However, I have met national athlete that swore by it. Had the necklace, 2 bracelets and 2 anklets. So...

On a more serious note, I’m a 40+ year old running recreationally. I get soreness on a random location (ankles, pf, knees, calves...) after every run. I bought one of those fancy watches which is able to measure the intensity of my runs, if I’ve overextended, and also tells me how much rest / recovery time I need before my next workout. So far so good.
So at the very least, I’m expected our trained medical professionals be able to outperform my little plastic gimmick [emoji35]

 

[Joao]

Of course they could be, but the very names you rattled off are success stories spread across a number of clubs, no isolated to one club. If we are pinning our list build on players pick late 50's an onward what are we really doing except buying time for a few more years?

Yep, just like every team that is not GWS/GC or those that have been at the bottom long enough to have 10+ first round picks (Carlton, Brisbane etc) we will fill our list with later picks.

Pretty sure Sydney's most recent GF team had something stupid like 10 rookie list players in it.

Also, what would you suggest as an alternative?

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Hello all, I have been a member of this club since inception, I am an old man, but I’d like to think I know my way around a few professional organisations both in the sporting field and the world of business. I was pointed here by a family member who posts frequently and thought my insight might be appreciated, I will let other decide on the quality post message.



I would like to preface my following remarks by stating that I thoroughly enjoyed our period of relative success in the 2012-2015, it was enjoyable to follow a team that was honest, professional, for the most part and lead well by a man who showed the club unbelievable loyalty. This was a period of harmonious performance, I was proud to follow Fremantle and enjoyed making my way to Subiaco every second week during winter.

That feeling is gone, and whilst that period was good to be a part of, I believe it spawned a toxic element that has been slowly poisoning the club and left us in the position we now find ourselves in. Success can often lead to hubris, humility cast aside for arrogance, and even the most meticulous individuals can be lulled into believing the sun shines out of every orifice. I believe this is entirely prevalent with our football department. We started to take short-cuts, lower our standards and make allowance in the pursuit of the ultimate prize to the detriment of the club as a whole. The worst part about this current period, is a total lack of accountability for poorly executed decisions and out failure as an organisation to create an effective indigenous player management program.



I understand this may ruffle feathers and I will no doubt be accused by some as being disloyal, but that is simply not the case, my only wish is that the club re-discover its identity and develop into an environment that attracts and retains the right people. At this point in time, we, as a club, have failed dismally in this function.

I am of the opinion that the current recruitment, list management and development team needs to be cleansed. This is a unit, who over the past 5 seasons has seen fit to actively recruit Colin Sylvia, Shane Yarran, Harley Bennell, Cameron Mcarthy, Brad Hill, Josh Simpson and Brandon Matera. I find it absurd that the club failed to screen the inherent character flaws associated with each of these particular players, recruited said players and at the same point in time, discarded Michael Barlow, Matt Deboer and Tendai Mzungu. Every single one of the players recruited were infinitely more talented than the three players I note were cast aside, however they all represented individuals with patterns of behaviour not aligned with high performance.


Colin Sylvia was recruited in a quest for more scoring power and hardness around the ball, these were the selling points at the tail end of 2013. Prior to his arrival Sylvia had been associated with multiple off-field misdemeanours including violence toward his partner, excessive drinking and failing to arrive for compulsory recovery sessions. These incidents were spread across multiple years and demonstrated a pattern of behaviour which did not align with a high performance culture. Sylvia lasted 1 and half seasons before the club realised the error of its ways despite stating and I quote

“we're really comfortable that we knew what was coming through the door”

Colin Sylvia was let go after demonstrating an inability to meet the expectations of a professional environment, failing to attend compulsory recovery sessions and enjoying himself over the off-season with excessive alcohol intake and being unable to complete a post Xmas time trial. The club allowed this to happen by failing to accept his attitudinal problems and behavioural issues were systemic, was it hubris?

Shane Yarran, may his soul rest in peace, was bought to the club on the back of a failed 2015 finals campaign, with a lack of goal scoring options cited as justification for his recruitment. Yarran was imprisoned for a violent home invasion and sentenced to prison for a number of years. Shane Yarran retired after one season having been involved in multiple off-field incidents involving alcohol and violence and post his retirement accused the club of having an off-field culture problem with wide spread drug use. In his court documents he reveals he was exposed to a plethora of narcotics in his short lived AFL career. Following his retirement his lawyers noted he had developed an addiction to meth amphetamines. This is what the club said following his recruitment. Hubris?



“We did our background on Shane and spent a significant amount of time with him”

In the very same post season, the club also decided to recruit Harley Bennell. A player of immense & undeniable talent but a player with clear and consistent pattern of behaviour that was completely misaligned with the expectations of professional athletes in the AFL. Bennell was captured snorted a substance as an employee of the Gold Coast football club, had attempted to fight a media identity at the Brownlow after consuming too much alcohol, been involved in nightclub brawls with security staff and was closely aligned with Carmichael Hunt. Fremantle’s hierarchy saw fit to carve out a list spot for a man with a demonstrated pattern of behaviour that is not acceptable for high performance and culturally sound organisations. Since his arrival at Fremantle, we have managed two games from Harley, an incident involving consuming too much alcohol on a flight to the Gold Coast, a fight with a bouncer on the eve of this pre-season and rumblings of other associated off-field behaviour unbecoming of a professional athlete. Perhaps the most disappointing element of Harley’s recruitment is the fact that we lost another Harley due to his troubles off-field. Not only that, during the recruitment process, Richmond backed out of its courtship after Dustin Martin advised that he was “too loose” – Our club, did not believe this was an issue ruling a line through Bennells recruitment, Hubris?


Cam Mcarthy is now at our club having taken a year off and not wishing to honour his contractual agreement with GWS citing homesickness. There is a medical element here and I understand his return to his home state was necessary for his mental health. What I see from Cameron, and everything I hear is that he is a nice enough young man, but simply does not present well, work hard enough to get the best out of himself and is rather image conscious. The club again, I believe, has failed to do the necessary due diligence on his character and we are now seeing a talented young man cruise through a career and demonstrates a lack of dedication to his craft, and he is allowed to continue in this manner.

Since 2015 we have seen the following off-field incidents.

- Yarran, multiple issues

- Bennell, multiple issues

- Brad Hill – alcohol, police involvement for supplying a fake name.

- Michael Johnson, alcohol, violence in Leederville

- Brennan Cox - alcohol

- Luke Ryan – Alcohol

- Connor Blakely believed he was able to skip training to surf



If there were one or two, I would not be concerned, these are young men with a lot of spare time and disposable income. But they are not isolated and the fact that there are multiple instances of disregarding club protocol and societal norms suggests to me that the environment is not acceptable, not even close to high performance and emits an unaccountable theme. And how could it not come across that way when Michael Johnson, a senior player punches a man in the face at 3am and still has a contract after his previous history? How could it not come across that way when the club sees fit to recruit a player with multiple off-field discretions related to drugs an alcohol but is undeniably talented and allows him to stay on the list?


How can it be an accountable, professional and high performance environment when the people associated with recruiting these players are not held accountable for their failings, if it is good enough for the off-field staff, why wouldn’t the players test the limits. I feel we are culturally rudderless and this point has only been exacerbated by the fact that our head coach was associated with some rather unpleasant commentary and is the chief architect of the cultural setting the club operates in. Lyon operates in an untouchable environment, he is beyond reproach, that is the example he sets and passes down the line, there is arrogance in large portions of his delivery, an undeserved attitude on the back of almost performance and the undeniable presence of coaching hubris.


I have observed a number of high performance organisations at close hand over a number of years. We are not even close to replicating the environment required for peak performance, in fact, I have resigned myself to another decade of irrelevance because I simply do not believe the club is equipped with the off-field staff to drive on-field performance. How we have arrived with the current list position is an embarrassment. We entered this year as the club with most 30 year old plus players, and gave away most of our draft picks in a draft mooted to be one of the best in recent years. Our second pick with 75 + in the draft.



My only hope is that board completes a root and branch review of the entire football department, request an external investigation team to measure the club culture and turn over elements within the club that are limiting on-field performance. I sincerely believe the heart of the problems that are prevalent at our club revolve around culture and accountability. Our house is clearly not in order off-field and this is reflected in no uncertain terms on field. We deserve better and I expect better, if there is not significant change at seasons end, I like many others will not be renewing my membership.

This is far too intelligent and eloquent a post to be wasted in a melt thread.

It's a shame the board as a whole isn't mature enough these days to handle the harsh realities you have detailed in your post.

This really is deserving of a greater discussion in a far more worthy thread but sadly this is the only place where much warranted scrutiny and critical examination is not regularly censored by mods nor actively attacked and deplored by head in the sand posters.

High expectations are portrayed as disloyalty by those happy to accept mediocrity.

The truth hurts.

Great post Oldman Docker

 

[its free real estate]

Would the club have paid $1 million, as was rumoured, for (what became) a dead rubber against Gold Coast if they expected we'd end up with the same amount of wins in 2017?

Had we been in the running for finals an extra home game could have made all the difference. That strikes me as something a club that is expecting on field improvement would do.

 

[Oldman Docker]

Yep, just like every team that is not GWS/GC or those that have been at the bottom long enough to have 10+ first round picks (Carlton, Brisbane etc) we will fill our list with later picks.

Pretty sure Sydney's most recent GF team had something stupid like 10 rookie list players in it.

Also, what would you suggest as an alternative?

It's too late now, but if a club goes down the path of self imposed rebuild it has to be willing to give up stock to get quality in return, looking at the books now, it appears only Langdon, potentially Stephen Hill and maybe at a stretch Tom Sheridan can be packaged up for something in return?

Unfortunately, at the height of powers we failed to do any forward planning from a list management point of view, the failure to identify via the draft or trade or free agency for a Pav replacement is the tip of the iceberg.

But again, these same operators continue to operate with impunity within the club, it beggars belief.

 

[Joao]

Would the club have paid $1 million, as was rumoured, for (what became) a dead rubber against Gold Coast if they expected we'd end up with the same amount of wins in 2017?

Had we been in the running for finals an extra home game could have made all the difference. That strikes me as something a club that is expecting on field improvement would do.

Yes, purely because new stadium.

 

[Oldman Docker]

Would the club have paid $1 million, as was rumoured, for (what became) a dead rubber against Gold Coast if they expected we'd end up with the same amount of wins in 2017?

Had we been in the running for finals an extra home game could have made all the difference. That strikes me as something a club that is expecting on field improvement would do.

I have it on very good authority that Fremantle's finance committee advised against the purchase of this game based on the financial metrics not stacking up, it was over ruled by the CEO.

 

[Joao]

It's too late now, but if a club goes down the path of self imposed rebuild it has to be willing to give up stock to get quality in return, looking at the books now, it appears only Langdon, potentially Stephen Hill and maybe at a stretch Tom Sheridan can be packaged up for something in return?

Unfortunately, at the height of powers we failed to do any forward planning from a list management point of view, the failure to identify via the draft or trade or free agency for a Pav replacement is the tip of the iceberg.

But again, these same operators continue to operate with impunity within the club, it beggars belief.

Who could we have given up that had value? I put to you absolutely nobody.

Our spine was ancient by then and worthless. Our other gun players were

Fyfe
Neale
Mundy
Barlow
Shilly
Walters

It makes zero sense to trade Fyfe, Neale, Walters or Hill because they are young enough to go again. Barlow has been shown to have no value and Mundy was too old to get more than a second round pick. He is also extremely valuable to us now.

I'd also argue that teams that have done as you suggest are by a wide margin, worse off than us - Carlton and Saints.

You can dream as much as you like about staying relevant but our list was simply not in the position to do that. We had no choice. Since this is a melt thread, melt about the recruiting from 2002-2012 that put us in that position.

Also the who couldn't replace Pav through FA/trade is bull****. We tried everyone and they all said no. We were an absolute rabble of a club for most of Pav's career but he didn't leave. What hope did we really have of unseating someone near his quality from someone else? All but zero.

 

[its free real estate]

Yes, purely because new stadium.

I don't follow.

I have it on very good authority that Fremantle's finance committee advised against the purchase of this game based on the financial metrics not stacking up, it was over ruled by the CEO.

Yes, I heard the same about the financial metrics. I recall Pav casting doubt on the deal during the commentary of the Gold Coast game.

One argument that was floating in pre-season around was that it would assist in a push for finals. But we're on the same number of wins at the same point as last year, with only a slightly better percentage. Difficult to argue we have improved on 2017 given we have an extra home game under our belts.

 

[Del183359]

Sorry Unique name, that wasn't my intention but I do believe I answered your thoughts, although I can get lost in my own thoughts.

I do think Brad Hill for Mayne was a good trade on a player for player basis,absolutely, however from a character perspective I am yet to be convinced, were you to plot their respective performances on a trend line I would dare say Mayne on a wing is trending upward, Hill seems to going backward after an outstanding first year. Mayne could have walked away, but has put his head down, copped the criticism and now has a permanent position on a wing in a top 4 side.

The element that you seem not to want to discuss is the series of off-field misdemeanors carried out by our playing group - if basic behavioral standards can't be met away from the field, do you think these type of attitudinal problems fester into training standards and application? How does a coaching group demand standards when those in charge are not held accountable for their performances? That's my main point.

I disagree that standards are being set and upheld - why, because the behavior seems to indicate otherwise, not just once but consistently.

Joel Hamling has been a fantastic acquisition and a shining light in a very dull year, Nathan Wilson, I'm not so sure about either, his body language and admonishing of fellow players is a touch Goddard like and defensively, in a weak team he is being found out. His right foot is a weapon though, and one I wish we used further up the ground.

Kingswood - in 2018 we have one pick in the top 75 as it currently stands, yet we will likely retire Johnson, Pearce, Spurr, Ballantyne and potentially Sandilands.

Do we replace these servants with more Scott Jones/Norths/Meeks? What are we building?

Why would Mayne have considered walking away from $500k a year?

 

[Joao]

I don't follow.

Yes, I heard the same about the financial metrics. I recall Pav casting doubt on the deal during the commentary of the Gold Coast game.

One argument that was floating in pre-season around was that it would assist in a push for finals. But we're on the same number of wins at the same point as last year, with only a slightly better percentage. Difficult to argue we have improved on 2017 given we have an extra home game under our belts.

Without being in the inner sanctum I reckon it makes sense to drum up optimism for us in a tough year. Bank some wins early in the season at home in our flashy new stadium to hopefully keep the supporters at bay. Clearly it hasn't worked.

 

[its free real estate]

Without being in the inner sanctum I reckon it makes sense to drum up optimism for us in a tough year. Bank some wins early in the season at home in our flashy new stadium to hopefully keep the supporters at bay. Clearly it hasn't worked.

Yes, whatever the reason, it did not come to fruition and demonstrates poor planning on the club's behalf.

 

[Joao]

Yes, whatever the reason, it did not come to fruition and demonstrates poor planning on the club's behalf.

Yeah I am not that worried about it. I enjoyed the game at the time.

 

[its free real estate]

Hello all, I have been a member of this club since inception, I am an old man, but I’d like to think I know my way around a few professional organisations both in the sporting field and the world of business. I was pointed here by a family member who posts frequently and thought my insight might be appreciated, I will let other decide on the quality post message.



I would like to preface my following remarks by stating that I thoroughly enjoyed our period of relative success in the 2012-2015, it was enjoyable to follow a team that was honest, professional, for the most part and lead well by a man who showed the club unbelievable loyalty. This was a period of harmonious performance, I was proud to follow Fremantle and enjoyed making my way to Subiaco every second week during winter.

That feeling is gone, and whilst that period was good to be a part of, I believe it spawned a toxic element that has been slowly poisoning the club and left us in the position we now find ourselves in. Success can often lead to hubris, humility cast aside for arrogance, and even the most meticulous individuals can be lulled into believing the sun shines out of every orifice. I believe this is entirely prevalent with our football department. We started to take short-cuts, lower our standards and make allowance in the pursuit of the ultimate prize to the detriment of the club as a whole. The worst part about this current period, is a total lack of accountability for poorly executed decisions and out failure as an organisation to create an effective indigenous player management program.



I understand this may ruffle feathers and I will no doubt be accused by some as being disloyal, but that is simply not the case, my only wish is that the club re-discover its identity and develop into an environment that attracts and retains the right people. At this point in time, we, as a club, have failed dismally in this function.

I am of the opinion that the current recruitment, list management and development team needs to be cleansed. This is a unit, who over the past 5 seasons has seen fit to actively recruit Colin Sylvia, Shane Yarran, Harley Bennell, Cameron Mcarthy, Brad Hill, Josh Simpson and Brandon Matera. I find it absurd that the club failed to screen the inherent character flaws associated with each of these particular players, recruited said players and at the same point in time, discarded Michael Barlow, Matt Deboer and Tendai Mzungu. Every single one of the players recruited were infinitely more talented than the three players I note were cast aside, however they all represented individuals with patterns of behaviour not aligned with high performance.


Colin Sylvia was recruited in a quest for more scoring power and hardness around the ball, these were the selling points at the tail end of 2013. Prior to his arrival Sylvia had been associated with multiple off-field misdemeanours including violence toward his partner, excessive drinking and failing to arrive for compulsory recovery sessions. These incidents were spread across multiple years and demonstrated a pattern of behaviour which did not align with a high performance culture. Sylvia lasted 1 and half seasons before the club realised the error of its ways despite stating and I quote

“we're really comfortable that we knew what was coming through the door”

Colin Sylvia was let go after demonstrating an inability to meet the expectations of a professional environment, failing to attend compulsory recovery sessions and enjoying himself over the off-season with excessive alcohol intake and being unable to complete a post Xmas time trial. The club allowed this to happen by failing to accept his attitudinal problems and behavioural issues were systemic, was it hubris?

Shane Yarran, may his soul rest in peace, was bought to the club on the back of a failed 2015 finals campaign, with a lack of goal scoring options cited as justification for his recruitment. Yarran was imprisoned for a violent home invasion and sentenced to prison for a number of years. Shane Yarran retired after one season having been involved in multiple off-field incidents involving alcohol and violence and post his retirement accused the club of having an off-field culture problem with wide spread drug use. In his court documents he reveals he was exposed to a plethora of narcotics in his short lived AFL career. Following his retirement his lawyers noted he had developed an addiction to meth amphetamines. This is what the club said following his recruitment. Hubris?



“We did our background on Shane and spent a significant amount of time with him”

In the very same post season, the club also decided to recruit Harley Bennell. A player of immense & undeniable talent but a player with clear and consistent pattern of behaviour that was completely misaligned with the expectations of professional athletes in the AFL. Bennell was captured snorted a substance as an employee of the Gold Coast football club, had attempted to fight a media identity at the Brownlow after consuming too much alcohol, been involved in nightclub brawls with security staff and was closely aligned with Carmichael Hunt. Fremantle’s hierarchy saw fit to carve out a list spot for a man with a demonstrated pattern of behaviour that is not acceptable for high performance and culturally sound organisations. Since his arrival at Fremantle, we have managed two games from Harley, an incident involving consuming too much alcohol on a flight to the Gold Coast, a fight with a bouncer on the eve of this pre-season and rumblings of other associated off-field behaviour unbecoming of a professional athlete. Perhaps the most disappointing element of Harley’s recruitment is the fact that we lost another Harley due to his troubles off-field. Not only that, during the recruitment process, Richmond backed out of its courtship after Dustin Martin advised that he was “too loose” – Our club, did not believe this was an issue ruling a line through Bennells recruitment, Hubris?


Cam Mcarthy is now at our club having taken a year off and not wishing to honour his contractual agreement with GWS citing homesickness. There is a medical element here and I understand his return to his home state was necessary for his mental health. What I see from Cameron, and everything I hear is that he is a nice enough young man, but simply does not present well, work hard enough to get the best out of himself and is rather image conscious. The club again, I believe, has failed to do the necessary due diligence on his character and we are now seeing a talented young man cruise through a career and demonstrates a lack of dedication to his craft, and he is allowed to continue in this manner.

Since 2015 we have seen the following off-field incidents.

- Yarran, multiple issues

- Bennell, multiple issues

- Brad Hill – alcohol, police involvement for supplying a fake name.

- Michael Johnson, alcohol, violence in Leederville

- Brennan Cox - alcohol

- Luke Ryan – Alcohol

- Connor Blakely believed he was able to skip training to surf



If there were one or two, I would not be concerned, these are young men with a lot of spare time and disposable income. But they are not isolated and the fact that there are multiple instances of disregarding club protocol and societal norms suggests to me that the environment is not acceptable, not even close to high performance and emits an unaccountable theme. And how could it not come across that way when Michael Johnson, a senior player punches a man in the face at 3am and still has a contract after his previous history? How could it not come across that way when the club sees fit to recruit a player with multiple off-field discretions related to drugs an alcohol but is undeniably talented and allows him to stay on the list?


How can it be an accountable, professional and high performance environment when the people associated with recruiting these players are not held accountable for their failings, if it is good enough for the off-field staff, why wouldn’t the players test the limits. I feel we are culturally rudderless and this point has only been exacerbated by the fact that our head coach was associated with some rather unpleasant commentary and is the chief architect of the cultural setting the club operates in. Lyon operates in an untouchable environment, he is beyond reproach, that is the example he sets and passes down the line, there is arrogance in large portions of his delivery, an undeserved attitude on the back of almost performance and the undeniable presence of coaching hubris.


I have observed a number of high performance organisations at close hand over a number of years. We are not even close to replicating the environment required for peak performance, in fact, I have resigned myself to another decade of irrelevance because I simply do not believe the club is equipped with the off-field staff to drive on-field performance. How we have arrived with the current list position is an embarrassment. We entered this year as the club with most 30 year old plus players, and gave away most of our draft picks in a draft mooted to be one of the best in recent years. Our second pick with 75 + in the draft.



My only hope is that board completes a root and branch review of the entire football department, request an external investigation team to measure the club culture and turn over elements within the club that are limiting on-field performance. I sincerely believe the heart of the problems that are prevalent at our club revolve around culture and accountability. Our house is clearly not in order off-field and this is reflected in no uncertain terms on field. We deserve better and I expect better, if there is not significant change at seasons end, I like many others will not be renewing my membership.

This is a great post and you clearly state part of what has been going wrong at Freo for a long time.

However, I take a different view and had no problem with any of the picks they made, whether it was Sylvia through to Bennell. Yes, each were loose units, collectively they were problematic, but all good teams have a loose cannon or two, and they are able to control them while winning. The problem was we were never able to reign any of them in, and doubled down on the recruitment of those types.

But that aside, the problem really begins in 2009-2010 - before we got Ross as coach, in the midst of our previous rebuild. Anyone with a long enough memory can probably recall the club boasting about 'sustained success', and asserting that we had changed our drafting and recruitment department to a degree that we were better placed than other clubs to ride out the hollowing out of the talent pool as a result of GWS and Gold Coast's entry.

For those who can remember, the club also explicitly stated they had rules about extending contracts for those over the age of 28, and rules against trading high picks. I don't expect them to maintain those rules forever, but they went from clearly explaining their strategy to fans, to leaving us completely in the dark about what they are doing. Again, I don't expect them to tell us exactly what they are doing each trade and draft period, but it is interesting that during the last rebuild they had a clearly stated plan about how to get out of the mire, and this time around we hear nothing.

The sustained success we were sold only lasted 3-4 years after the expansion concessions concluded. For example, Jeremy Cameron and Toby Greene was 22 when we started our decline. Was our ability to sustain success meant to finish well before GWS's talent reached their peak?

In my opinion, the drafts 2010-2016 have to be the worst period of drafting in our history. That is seven drafts, a period that spans Neesham + Drum, or alternatively all of Connolly. Of course, we have finished higher than usual in most of those years, and there were a couple of drafts in that period where the talent had been compromised by the expansion clubs, but we've yielded one high quality player in that time, Lachie Neale, who was pick 58. Hopefully the 2017 draft has turned it around.

 

[freo1997]

Hello all, I have been a member of this club since inception, I am an old man, but I’d like to think I know my way around a few professional organisations both in the sporting field and the world of business. I was pointed here by a family member who posts frequently and thought my insight might be appreciated, I will let other decide on the quality post message.



I would like to preface my following remarks by stating that I thoroughly enjoyed our period of relative success in the 2012-2015, it was enjoyable to follow a team that was honest, professional, for the most part and lead well by a man who showed the club unbelievable loyalty. This was a period of harmonious performance, I was proud to follow Fremantle and enjoyed making my way to Subiaco every second week during winter.

That feeling is gone, and whilst that period was good to be a part of, I believe it spawned a toxic element that has been slowly poisoning the club and left us in the position we now find ourselves in. Success can often lead to hubris, humility cast aside for arrogance, and even the most meticulous individuals can be lulled into believing the sun shines out of every orifice. I believe this is entirely prevalent with our football department. We started to take short-cuts, lower our standards and make allowance in the pursuit of the ultimate prize to the detriment of the club as a whole. The worst part about this current period, is a total lack of accountability for poorly executed decisions and out failure as an organisation to create an effective indigenous player management program.



I understand this may ruffle feathers and I will no doubt be accused by some as being disloyal, but that is simply not the case, my only wish is that the club re-discover its identity and develop into an environment that attracts and retains the right people. At this point in time, we, as a club, have failed dismally in this function.

I am of the opinion that the current recruitment, list management and development team needs to be cleansed. This is a unit, who over the past 5 seasons has seen fit to actively recruit Colin Sylvia, Shane Yarran, Harley Bennell, Cameron Mcarthy, Brad Hill, Josh Simpson and Brandon Matera. I find it absurd that the club failed to screen the inherent character flaws associated with each of these particular players, recruited said players and at the same point in time, discarded Michael Barlow, Matt Deboer and Tendai Mzungu. Every single one of the players recruited were infinitely more talented than the three players I note were cast aside, however they all represented individuals with patterns of behaviour not aligned with high performance.


Colin Sylvia was recruited in a quest for more scoring power and hardness around the ball, these were the selling points at the tail end of 2013. Prior to his arrival Sylvia had been associated with multiple off-field misdemeanours including violence toward his partner, excessive drinking and failing to arrive for compulsory recovery sessions. These incidents were spread across multiple years and demonstrated a pattern of behaviour which did not align with a high performance culture. Sylvia lasted 1 and half seasons before the club realised the error of its ways despite stating and I quote

“we're really comfortable that we knew what was coming through the door”

Colin Sylvia was let go after demonstrating an inability to meet the expectations of a professional environment, failing to attend compulsory recovery sessions and enjoying himself over the off-season with excessive alcohol intake and being unable to complete a post Xmas time trial. The club allowed this to happen by failing to accept his attitudinal problems and behavioural issues were systemic, was it hubris?

Shane Yarran, may his soul rest in peace, was bought to the club on the back of a failed 2015 finals campaign, with a lack of goal scoring options cited as justification for his recruitment. Yarran was imprisoned for a violent home invasion and sentenced to prison for a number of years. Shane Yarran retired after one season having been involved in multiple off-field incidents involving alcohol and violence and post his retirement accused the club of having an off-field culture problem with wide spread drug use. In his court documents he reveals he was exposed to a plethora of narcotics in his short lived AFL career. Following his retirement his lawyers noted he had developed an addiction to meth amphetamines. This is what the club said following his recruitment. Hubris?



“We did our background on Shane and spent a significant amount of time with him”

In the very same post season, the club also decided to recruit Harley Bennell. A player of immense & undeniable talent but a player with clear and consistent pattern of behaviour that was completely misaligned with the expectations of professional athletes in the AFL. Bennell was captured snorted a substance as an employee of the Gold Coast football club, had attempted to fight a media identity at the Brownlow after consuming too much alcohol, been involved in nightclub brawls with security staff and was closely aligned with Carmichael Hunt. Fremantle’s hierarchy saw fit to carve out a list spot for a man with a demonstrated pattern of behaviour that is not acceptable for high performance and culturally sound organisations. Since his arrival at Fremantle, we have managed two games from Harley, an incident involving consuming too much alcohol on a flight to the Gold Coast, a fight with a bouncer on the eve of this pre-season and rumblings of other associated off-field behaviour unbecoming of a professional athlete. Perhaps the most disappointing element of Harley’s recruitment is the fact that we lost another Harley due to his troubles off-field. Not only that, during the recruitment process, Richmond backed out of its courtship after Dustin Martin advised that he was “too loose” – Our club, did not believe this was an issue ruling a line through Bennells recruitment, Hubris?


Cam Mcarthy is now at our club having taken a year off and not wishing to honour his contractual agreement with GWS citing homesickness. There is a medical element here and I understand his return to his home state was necessary for his mental health. What I see from Cameron, and everything I hear is that he is a nice enough young man, but simply does not present well, work hard enough to get the best out of himself and is rather image conscious. The club again, I believe, has failed to do the necessary due diligence on his character and we are now seeing a talented young man cruise through a career and demonstrates a lack of dedication to his craft, and he is allowed to continue in this manner.

Since 2015 we have seen the following off-field incidents.

- Yarran, multiple issues

- Bennell, multiple issues

- Brad Hill – alcohol, police involvement for supplying a fake name.

- Michael Johnson, alcohol, violence in Leederville

- Brennan Cox - alcohol

- Luke Ryan – Alcohol

- Connor Blakely believed he was able to skip training to surf



If there were one or two, I would not be concerned, these are young men with a lot of spare time and disposable income. But they are not isolated and the fact that there are multiple instances of disregarding club protocol and societal norms suggests to me that the environment is not acceptable, not even close to high performance and emits an unaccountable theme. And how could it not come across that way when Michael Johnson, a senior player punches a man in the face at 3am and still has a contract after his previous history? How could it not come across that way when the club sees fit to recruit a player with multiple off-field discretions related to drugs an alcohol but is undeniably talented and allows him to stay on the list?


How can it be an accountable, professional and high performance environment when the people associated with recruiting these players are not held accountable for their failings, if it is good enough for the off-field staff, why wouldn’t the players test the limits. I feel we are culturally rudderless and this point has only been exacerbated by the fact that our head coach was associated with some rather unpleasant commentary and is the chief architect of the cultural setting the club operates in. Lyon operates in an untouchable environment, he is beyond reproach, that is the example he sets and passes down the line, there is arrogance in large portions of his delivery, an undeserved attitude on the back of almost performance and the undeniable presence of coaching hubris.


I have observed a number of high performance organisations at close hand over a number of years. We are not even close to replicating the environment required for peak performance, in fact, I have resigned myself to another decade of irrelevance because I simply do not believe the club is equipped with the off-field staff to drive on-field performance. How we have arrived with the current list position is an embarrassment. We entered this year as the club with most 30 year old plus players, and gave away most of our draft picks in a draft mooted to be one of the best in recent years. Our second pick with 75 + in the draft.



My only hope is that board completes a root and branch review of the entire football department, request an external investigation team to measure the club culture and turn over elements within the club that are limiting on-field performance. I sincerely believe the heart of the problems that are prevalent at our club revolve around culture and accountability. Our house is clearly not in order off-field and this is reflected in no uncertain terms on field. We deserve better and I expect better, if there is not significant change at seasons end, I like many others will not be renewing my membership.

Great Post! I haven’t watched a freo game for a month (3 of those weeks I was overseas) and to be honest, I’m in no rush to watch us. That Brisbane game was the tipping point.

I appreciate your post and honesty. Our once upon a time “LOCAL” freo club has indeed lost its identity and we need a clean out starting with the top dogs (Rosich and Lyon) as well as Bondy and the terrible Weber. The boys club we have atm needs to end and we need some fresh new personnel, with some new ideas and direction.

As you said there’s a shit load of people who won’t be renewing their memberships and that will be the wake up call this club needs and will get next year.

Bigfooty has the biggest footy fans/nerds in the footy world. I can honestly tell you the “casuals/bandwagoners” who have no idea what bigfooty is..are most definitely jumping or jumped off and clearly some of us bigfootians have had it.

 

[The Joker]

Kingswood - in 2018 we have one pick in the top 75 as it currently stands, yet we will likely retire Johnson, Pearce, Spurr, Ballantyne and potentially Sandilands.

Do we replace these servants with more Scott Jones/Norths/Meeks? What are we building?

Do you know what is ironic about the names you have mentioned and the question you pose. It's that they were all* picked up after pick 75 in their national draft!

Why have you left Bailey Banfield out from your replacements list?




*Yes, I know Ballas went at 21, but he could have been drafted in the 3 previous drafts before then!

 

[Nothing]

Love the melt thread. Accepting mediocrity.

 

[mightymouse75]

Should call it the salty thread

 

[yakka man]

This is a great post and you clearly state part of what has been going wrong at Freo for a long time.

However, I take a different view and had no problem with any of the picks they made, whether it was Sylvia through to Bennell. Yes, each were loose units, collectively they were problematic, but all good teams have a loose cannon or two, and they are able to control them while winning. The problem was we were never able to reign any of them in, and doubled down on the recruitment of those types.

But that aside, the problem really begins in 2009-2010 - before we got Ross as coach, in the midst of our previous rebuild. Anyone with a long enough memory can probably recall the club boasting about 'sustained success', and asserting that we had changed our drafting and recruitment department to a degree that we were better placed than other clubs to ride out the hollowing out of the talent pool as a result of GWS and Gold Coast's entry.

For those who can remember, the club also explicitly stated they had rules about extending contracts for those over the age of 28, and rules against trading high picks. I don't expect them to maintain those rules forever, but they went from clearly explaining their strategy to fans, to leaving us completely in the dark about what they are doing. Again, I don't expect them to tell us exactly what they are doing each trade and draft period, but it is interesting that during the last rebuild they had a clearly stated plan about how to get out of the mire, and this time around we hear nothing.

The sustained success we were sold only lasted 3-4 years after the expansion concessions concluded. For example, Jeremy Cameron and Toby Greene was 22 when we started our decline. Was our ability to sustain success meant to finish well before GWS's talent reached their peak?

In my opinion, the drafts 2010-2016 have to be the worst period of drafting in our history. That is seven drafts, a period that spans Neesham + Drum, or alternatively all of Connolly. Of course, we have finished higher than usual in most of those years, and there were a couple of drafts in that period where the talent had been compromised by the expansion clubs, but we've yielded one high quality player in that time, Lachie Neale, who was pick 58. Hopefully the 2017 draft has turned it around.

Agree that the 2010 to 2016 drafts have been extremely poor, but you could also argue that Ross Lyon hasn't developed the talent, which mirrors the widely held view that he doesn't play or develop youth - the rebuild doesn't count because there's only one way to go about a rebuild.