The Mounting Ruck Problem

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

It cant be fair if you take turns and gift possession to one team.

To be fair you need some form of contest.

You just need to remove the risk of major injury in that contest.

Would you like to lose a grand final with a team being given free possession from the centre with 30 seconds remaining and they handball, kick into a 6 on 6 and they goal? Or a ruck handballs, they just kick it to a free defender and run the clock down and win?

It would be a terrible look.

What would solution be if they decided to stop rucking?

 

[Obeanie1]

What would solution be if they decided to stop rucking?

Well you wouldnt stop rucking. You would look at mitigating the more dangerous aspects. Like you posted, basketballers have jump balls where they stand and jump without running at each other. No raising knees and smashing each other.

That would be a decent start. You still get a contest just remove the collission factor.

 

[master bate]

In basketball they jump without using a knee.

But it’s not a physical contest and they aren’t jumping in to each other. Jump balls are stationary and contests around the rim involve a defensive player going straight up or backwards.

 

[faible]

Well you wouldnt stop rucking. You would look at mitigating the more dangerous aspects. Like you posted, basketballers have jump balls where they stand and jump without running at each other. No raising knees and smashing each other.

That would be a decent start. You still get a contest just remove the collission factor.

They do one jump ball to start the game, then share possession back and forth. It's ceremonial. Not really comparable at all.

 

[Bigger]

You couldn't be more wrong, watch the vision

Darcy was solely looking at Pittonet until he deliberately took out his knee. He only looked up after he made contact.

Solely looking at Pitonet until he deliberately took out his knee?

Wow.

Check your bias. Here's a still of them running in:





Does that really look like someone solely looking at the opposition ruckman and planning on deliberately taking out their knee (using their own knee to do so, by the way)?

 

[Obeanie1]

They do one jump ball to start the game, then share possession back and forth. It's ceremonial. Not really comparable at all.

Its an example on how to mitigate pcl injuries from AFL centre bounce ruck contests.

Basically taking out knees up in ruck contests just like they took out studs up in marking contests.

You would still get a contest in our game as opposed to the other suggestion of one side just being gifted free possession in the middle after every goal. The centre bounce becomes a wrestling ruck contest, not running at each other with knees up.

Im pretty bloody certain It wouldnt be ceremonial in our game now would it? Especially when it happens to start quarters and after every goal.

What would you prefer if something was changed?

 

[TheOptimum18]

What would solution be if they decided to stop rucking?

The only viable solution I can think of is to do something similar to football (soccer).

Winner of the toss of the coin can decide whether they have possession of the ball first, or whether they pick which way to attack. Loser of the toss of the coin gets the other - if winner decides to have possession of the ball first, the loser chooses which side to attack, and vice versa.

Then, instead of ruck contests at centre bounces, a team is automatically giften possession at the start of quarters. The caveat to this would be that every player would be in their respective defensive halves. At the start of the next quarter, possession starts with the other team

This would also mean you need to add in the rule where its freekick against team who knocks/handballs/punches/kicks/dribbles the ball out.

I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THIS, NOR DO I THINK THIS IS THE PATH TO GO DOWN, BUT THE ONLY VIABLE NEXT STEP I CAN THINK OF IF THE SOLUTION IS TO REMOVE RUCK CONTESTS.

The reason I don't think a vertical jump between two rucks is the answer, is that it makes players in the ilk of Nankervis unviable. Not every team will be able to find a ruckman the size of Max Gawn, who would obviously have a height and reach advantage over most players in a vertical jump-tap contest. At least a ruck contest in its current form gives ruckmen the size of Nankervis a fighting chance against the bigger ruckmen.

 

[random260]

The only viable solution I can think of is to do something similar to football (soccer).

Winner of the toss of the coin can decide whether they have possession of the ball first, or whether they pick which way to attack. Loser of the toss of the coin gets the other - if winner decides to have possession of the ball first, the loser chooses which side to attack, and vice versa.

Then, instead of ruck contests at centre bounces, a team is automatically giften possession at the start of quarters. The caveat to this would be that every player would be in their respective defensive halves. At the start of the next quarter, possession starts with the other team

This would also mean you need to add in the rule where its freekick against team who knocks/handballs/punches/kicks/dribbles the ball out.

I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THIS, NOR DO I THINK THIS IS THE PATH TO GO DOWN, BUT THE ONLY VIABLE NEXT STEP I CAN THINK OF IF THE SOLUTION IS TO REMOVE RUCK CONTESTS.

The reason I don't think a vertical jump between two rucks is the answer, is that it makes players in the ilk of Nankervis unviable. Not every team will be able to find a ruckman the size of Max Gawn, who would obviously have a height and reach advantage over most players in a vertical jump-tap contest. At least a ruck contest in its current form gives ruckmen the size of Nankervis a fighting chance against the bigger ruckmen.

Or just treat centre bounces as throw in ruck contest.

 

[TheOptimum18]

Or just treat centre bounces as throw in ruck contest.

Considering I was responding to someone asking what the solution would be if we decided to stop rucking, I don't think the answer "treat centre bounces as throw in ruck contest" is appropriate.

 

[Jables]

Anyone remember when they got rid of the 3rd man up at ruck contests and everyone was arguing about what the point of it was? The AFL came out like it had to protect tall peoples place in the game or something.

Just reminds me because we used the tactic more than anyone and we never got any injuries from it, so did Geelong with Blicavs and the gang, the whole point of the rule was to protect the rucks place in the game but in reality it just went back to watching two men bang into each other and get injured all the time. This is what the AFL wants apparently.

 

[Freoforever86]

You couldn't be more wrong, watch the vision

Darcy was solely looking at Pittonet until he deliberately took out his knee. He only looked up after he made contact.

Take your own advice and watch the angle of Pittonet. He looks at Darcy then up at the ball - same as Darcy does.

You literally have to, to know where your opponent is. If you don’t, you have a greater chance of both losing the ruck contest cause your opponent out maneuvers you, and also getting injured.

You realize players all over the ground look at their surroundings before jumping into a pack. Take Howe and his marking, he looks at the player, judges distance etc, then up at the ball and jumps on someone’s shoulders. He can’t just guess where they are.

 

[Ash1337]

Looking back at the discussion so far and the footage of how Pittonet got injured, as well as other things. Some in the media want the bounce gone because the umpires have trouble doing it but it can also lessen the risk of injury, specifically the one Pittonet got in that bounce contest. Throw ins the rucks mostly wrestle and same with ball ups around ground. It'll also mean no more calling the ball back. The cons are though it doesn't favor the athletic ruck types.

 

[WillHayward]

Get rid of shit boring boundary throw ins

issue solved

 

[D-N-R]

Anyone remember when they got rid of the 3rd man up at ruck contests and everyone was arguing about what the point of it was? The AFL came out like it had to protect tall peoples place in the game or something.

Just reminds me because we used the tactic more than anyone and we never got any injuries from it, so did Geelong with Blicavs and the gang, the whole point of the rule was to protect the rucks place in the game but in reality it just went back to watching two men bang into each other and get injured all the time. This is what the AFL wants apparently.

Third man up was never allowed at centre bounces, where this happens most often.

 

[D-N-R]

Looking back at the discussion so far and the footage of how Pittonet got injured, as well as other things. Some in the media want the bounce gone because the umpires have trouble doing it but it can also lessen the risk of injury, specifically the one Pittonet got in that bounce contest. Throw ins the rucks mostly wrestle and same with ball ups around ground. It'll also mean no more calling the ball back. The cons are though it doesn't favor the athletic ruck types.

I'd be happy to get rid of second bounces. If the ball isn't going straight up, bad luck. If the ball land s outside the circle any player should be able to contest it. Play on basically.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Why don’t they wear knee pads for impact ?
I know the landing action is still a problem but the Pittonet and Grundy injuries where knee on knee crunches weren’t they ?

Only issue that “could” arise with knee pads is that we might find rucks going even harder at each in regards to knee to knee contact other because they both have the ppe

Might in turn cause more injury’s instead of reducing them

Not saying it will happen but it’s a possibility

Better off making so players can’t initiate the contest with a raised knee although that is easier said than done

 

[HugeJohnson]

I think the obvious solution is to bring a punching/jumping bag to every ruck contest so the rucks jump in to the bag instead of each other. The bag is then removed from the field until needed again at the next contest. Or we could build maybe 3 little 'compartments' around the ground at each stadium, one at either end in the 50 and one in the centre circle that hold said jumping bags and they can be safely stored and retrieved as the umpires see fit

 

[theyellowsash]

why not make jumping with the knee forward and putting it directly into the opponent a free kick, the same as jumping and leading with the studs.

ruckmen can still run and jump, and even put the knee up. they just have to turn their body so that the knee isnt going straight into their opponents body. not only does it protect the player on the receiving end, but also forces the ruckmen to protect themselves by not putting their knee out there to get hit.

footy classified were showing footage of great ruckmen from the 90s and that is exactly how they were all doing it.

 

[Mofra]

Throwing it up instead of bouncing the ball might actually prevent a ruckman from holding their position (if the ball is bounced towards them) or from trying to force position (if the ball is bounced towards their opponent). Also means it's more likely both ruckman always know where their opponent is going to be.

Time to get rid of the bounce.

Getting rid of the bounce means umpires send more time learning to actually umpire rather than concentrating on a skill they use just a few times per game. It may actually help more umpire reach higher grades of football.

 

[AFDogs]

As a ruckman myself I hate the thought of running knee first into someone. Always have a concern in the back of my mind about getting injured from it.. Around the ground throw ins and wrestling one another are much more enjoyable.

 

[Mofra]

As a ruckman myself I hate the thought of running knee first into someone. Always have a concern in the back of my mind about getting injured from it.. Around the ground throw ins and wrestling one another are much more enjoyable.

I copped many a knee to the ribs/gut during the few years I was thrown into the ruck as a slowish, poorly skilled and undersized ruckman. Still the position I enjoyed the most though.

 

[Obeanie1]

Get rid of shit boring boundary throw ins

issue solved

Do rucks injure their pcl's clashing knees in boundard throw ins?

That wont happen.

 

[Obeanie1]

Take your own advice and watch the angle of Pittonet. He looks at Darcy then up at the ball - same as Darcy does.

You literally have to, to know where your opponent is. If you don’t, you have a greater chance of both losing the ruck contest cause your opponent out maneuvers you, and also getting injured.

You realize players all over the ground look at their surroundings before jumping into a pack. Take Howe and his marking, he looks at the player, judges distance etc, then up at the ball and jumps on someone’s shoulders. He can’t just guess where they are.

Looking through purple coloured glasses here.

Kane is onto it. Must be true.....lol.

 

[BigPond101]

Wouldnt it work if ruckman just wore thick knee pads ? Players already have their ankles / shoulders etc strapped up if they have injuries there before it would just be an extension of that

 

[nineteen eighty]

I'm prefacing my comments calling out that I'm an ex ruck. Only position I played for many years...and thrived on the physical nature of the role.

First up, there seem to be a lot of comments being made by those who have NFI about the role itself. Similiar to the way it's umpired. Umpires have never rucked before and hence have no idea on the nuances of the role. What is required to play the role.

And just to get this out in the open...those who have opinioned that rucks should be removed are simpletons with no idea of how the game is played. Seriously, where is your brain?

It is a physical role. A combative role. Some are suited to it. Others are not. What Darcy did (eyes were on Pittonet leading up to the jump) is fine. He was working through how he should jump and needed to see how Pittonet was positioning himself. Angles, height, body to body etc...they all come into play.

The injuries are unfortunate. I do miss the days however where 2 rucks could actually take a run and use their bodies to jump into and up off their opponent. Simon Madden was brilliant to watch. Blokes like Moss, Mark Lee, Dempsey, Len Thompson (and I could go on and on) would be run out of the game based on today's rules.

As for those knee pads that some have posted...fck no! Us rucks (the good ones) have pride. We understand the risks. We know it's a physical position. We are taught how to jump into, how to position oneself, how to angle ourselves etc... Failure to do so can lead to injury. So be it.

There was also a comment around teaching of the art of ruckwork and I absolutely agree that there is not enough attention paid to it.