Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[Sopwiths North]

Yeah I’m pretty sure the awareness is there. Has he done it for Yemen? Weird isn’t it how all these celebrities only really get loud about things that are already front and centre.

Hey, as long as they get loud about something, I don't care. Silence only helps the oppressor.

 

[Tectonic]

Yeah I’m pretty sure the awareness is there. Has he done it for Yemen? Weird isn’t it how all these celebrities only really get loud about things that are already front and centre.

Kony 2012 vibes

 

[Val Keating]

Kony 2012 vibes

Jeez I thought it was earlier then that. Yeah that was massive but did FA.

 

[ferball]

Jesus Febs. The US didn’t mastermind this. IMO Putin is just going down the same path as every dictator. He’s surrounded himself with yes men and those that don’t are removed, leaving him more alone and isolated to think about what he wants, and that’s probably just that he to be in the history books.

This war has been on the cards for seven years.

And the US has been working at getting access to Ukrainian gas since last century.

 

[Val Keating]

This war has been on the cards for seven years.

And the US has been working at getting access to Ukrainian gas since last century.

Why shouldn’t they? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. They can do whatever they think is best for them. Russia can eat a bag of dicks if they don’t like it.

 

[Val Keating]

 

[ferball]

I'm yet to see your convincing argument for this based on "the history of the situation".

Nothing I say will convince you but here's a start if you're interested in reading about it.

Ukraine and the Caspian: An Opportunity for the United States

The author examines the various options for Caspian oil export and argues that the United States should support a pipeline route through Ukraine to Europe.

www.rand.org

I don't dispute that the disproportionate coverage given to this conflict compared to others is disappointing. It's unfortunately the way of the world, and is not all down to racism. It's partly because of the brazen audacity of it, partly due to the importance of Russia geopolitically. And no doubt partly due to a feeling that people in some part of the world are considered to be in constant state of conflict, so it loses newsworthiness.

Read the twitter thread I linked. Or this thread. And yes the racism is real. When people talk about systemic racism this is what they mean. What you typed is actually an attempt to minimise or justify it the way I'm sposed to be justifying Putin's war.

Compare people's reaction to worse atrocities against brown people, even by Putin (to B4Bear's credit at least he acknowledged these.)

Personally I don't see this energy conflict as any different to any other energy conflict, like the one in Yemen for example. (That's what it is - there are huge oil reserves on the Saudi/Yemen border. I have a friend who used to run a exploration rig thru that big empty desert. In the late 00s they found shit tons of oil that no one knew was there. Obviously they suspected but that's different, after his crew's went thru they knew.)

That's an actual genocide and we (Australia) sell military hardware to the people perpetrating it.

All this fake affront about Putin, while we do that, is hypocritical bullshit afaic.

 

[ferball]

Why shouldn’t they? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. They can do whatever they think is best for them. Russia can eat a bag of dicks if they don’t like it.

This true but its the US. Everything they do in terms of interfering in other countries involves ****ing them over for their resources.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Jose Andres, founder of World Central Kitchen, has been at the border feeding refugees. "Life is not a monopoly game."

 

[Val Keating]

This true but its the US. Everything they do in terms of interfering in other countries involves ******* them over for their resources.

Of course there’s a cost but there’s also a gain. There’s a reason Russia won’t touch any western allied countries.

Also, I don’t agree with a lot of the actions of the west but that’s our team. Russia is the away team so **** them.

 

[ferball]

Of course there’s a cost but there’s also a gain. There’s a reason Russia won’t touch any western allied countries.

Also, I don’t agree with a lot of the actions of the west but that’s our team. Russia is the away team so fu** them.

There's no teams. We'll get dumped if it suits them.

The US treat us the way Putin treated Ukraine until 2013.

 

[B4Bear]

Nothing I say will convince you but here's a start if you're interested in reading about it.

Ukraine and the Caspian: An Opportunity for the United States

The author examines the various options for Caspian oil export and argues that the United States should support a pipeline route through Ukraine to Europe.

www.rand.org

Read the twitter thread I linked. Or this thread. And yes the racism is real. When people talk about systemic racism this is what they mean. What you typed is actually an attempt to minimise or justify it the way I'm sposed to be justifying Putin's war.

Compare people's reaction to worse atrocities against brown people, even by Putin (to B4Bear's credit at least he acknowledged these.)

Personally I don't see this energy conflict as any different to any other energy conflict, like the one in Yemen for example. (That's what it is - there are huge oil reserves on the Saudi/Yemen border. I have a friend who used to run a exploration rig thru that big empty desert. In the late 00s they found sh*t tons of oil that no one knew was there. Obviously they suspected but that's different, after his crew's went thru they knew.)

That's an actual genocide and we (Australia) sell military hardware to the people perpetrating it.

All this fake affront about Putin, while we do that, is hypocritical bullshit afaic.

I must remember to bring up your pov when I talk to the racists that went to Somalia and Rwanda.

Talk about drawing a false equivalence to match your own biases.

Fake affront whilst he is literally bombing hospitals, childcare, civilians and defenceless cities?

I may be hypocritical at times, as much as I try not to be; but your using that as an excuse along with ‘geopolitics’ as a defence is pathetic.

And because it happens in Yemen, we ignore this and down play it.

We can say that The Holocaust can be dismissed because other genocides carried out against people of colour were not as widely reported? Of course not, and that doesn’t make you a hypocrite.

 

[giantroo]

A large Russian army convoy has been spotted by satellite north of the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, stretching for about 65 kilometres (40 miles).

Hundreds of tanks, trucks, towed artillery pieces and support vehicles have been pictured edging towards the capital containing fuel, logistics and armoured vehicles.

Space technology company, Maxar Technologies, also said additional ground force deployments and ground attack helicopter units were seen in southern Belarus, less than 32 kilometres (20 miles) from border.

Photo: Maxar Technologies/Reuters

 

[ferball]

I must remember to bring up your pov when I talk to the racists that went to Somalia and Rwanda.

Talk about drawing a false equivalence to match your own biases.

Fake affront whilst he is literally bombing hospitals, childcare, civilians and defenceless cities?

I may be hypocritical at times, as much as I try not to be; but your using that as an excuse along with ‘geopolitics’ as a defence is pathetic.

And because it happens in Yemen, we ignore this and down play it.

We can say that The Holocaust can be dismissed because other genocides carried out against people of colour were not as widely reported? Of course not, and that doesn’t make you a hypocrite.

You might not see it but the difference in the the media and people's reaction cos there are "Blue eyed, white people" (see my thread up there) in danger is pretty obvious. Given the noise you'd think that what happened in Yemen was actually happening in Ukraine even tho its obvious Putin is trying not to level the joint.

(We know what they did to Grosny. If Russia behaved like the US they would have wiped out essential services, coms and blown the crap out of every town square, not just with one potentially stray missile.)

BTW - NATO has bombed cities in Europe in the last 30 years. Hundreds, maybe thousands of civilians were killed. You were asking why on earth would Russia think NATO might bomb it. Its already bombed a former Eastern Bloc state and destroyed it. That state no longer exists. That was happening when Putin became president. IF not that very week then within a few months.

 

[B4Bear]

You might not see it but the difference in the the media and people's reaction cos there are "Blue eyed, white people" (see my thread up there) in danger is pretty obvious. Given the noise you'd think that what happened in Yemen was actually happening in Ukraine even tho its obvious Putin is trying not to level the joint.

(We know what they did to Grosny. If Russia behaved like the US they would have wiped out essential services, coms and blown the crap out of every town square, not just with one potentially stray missile.)

BTW - NATO has bombed cities in Europe in the last 30 years. Hundreds, maybe thousands of civilians were killed. You were asking why on earth would Russia think NATO might bomb it. Its already bombed a former Eastern Bloc state and destroyed it. That state no longer exists. That was happening when Putin became president. IF not that very week then within a few months.

Wow. I think we should be done.

Your lying about what they are doing is unbelievable. Cluster munitions, fuel air bombs and multiple rocket launchers (MRL’s) are shown to have been used on civilians. And you don’t give a **** because they are white.

It is at times like this, with people like you that I feel ashamed of the left.

Your continued false equivalence as a mitigation to war crimes against ‘white people’ is just bizarre in the extreme. That you use the actions of NATO in defence of Russia who are attacking a non-NATO country is just pathetic.

 

[Makeshift Park]

NATO has bombed cities in Europe in the last 30 years. Hundreds, maybe thousands of civilians were killed. You were asking why on earth would Russia think NATO might bomb it. Its already bombed a former Eastern Bloc state and destroyed it. That state no longer exists. That was happening when Putin became president. IF not that very week then within a few months.

I can’t recall ever meeting anyone who believes the hundreds of civilians deaths as a result of NATO bombing in the Yugoslavia were anything but a tragedy.

Having said that, it seems a bit strange to draw a correlation from Yugoslavia’s demise to NATO’s campaign, and entirely omit Milosevic‘s decision to embark on a merry campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Nothing I say will convince you but here's a start if you're interested in reading about it.

What am I supposed to take out of that? It seems to recognise that in the year 2000 Ukrainians wanted to move out of Russia's sphere of influence and strengthen ties with the west, and they can best achieve this through improving their reliance on alternative sources of energy. There could be an economic benefit to the US and Ukraine by transporting oil and gas from the Caspian Sea via Azerbaijan, Georgia, the Black Sea, Ukraine and Poland. At the time of writing Russia exerted influence over Ukraine due to its dependence on Russia for energy. Unlike other post-Soviet states, Ukraine was able to actively resist that influence and openly seek ties with the west. It was able to do so because Russia must transport energy to its western European customers via Ukraine. Ukraine has used this leverage to obtain higher transit fees, to the chagrin of both Russia and the western Europeans.

Hence Russia seeking to build alternative pipelines to bypass Ukraine. The article suggests the US should support the above-mentioned route for transporting oil reserves from the Caspian Sea. Doing so would improve Ukraines viability as a sovereign state and reduce its reliance on Russia. It is noted that it is already part of an economic trading bloc with Georgia and Azerbaijan, who would both support such a project. The author hopes that by doing so it reduces the risk of Ukraine needing to rely on NATO or the US for security support and a conflagration with Russia as we are seeing now.

I don't know whatever became of the suggestion, but this article is clearly arguing that Ukraine should be supported in their ambitions to move towards a democratic, more economically advanced state with stronger ties to western Europe, and providing a potential model to do so. That model does not read to me as one that requires, or even finds it desirable to provoke a war with Russia. It seems to be saying quite the opposite.

Or are you saying that this model was not followed when it should have been? I'm a bit confused.

 

[B4Bear]

I can’t recall ever meeting anyone who believes the hundreds of civilians deaths as a result of NATO bombing in the Yugoslavia were anything but a tragedy.

Having said that, it seems a bit strange to draw a correlation from Yugoslavia’s demise to NATO’s campaign, and entirely omit Milosevic‘s decision to embark on a merry campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

They were white, so it apparently doesn’t count.

 

[ferball]

Wow. I think we should be done.

Your lying about what they are doing is unbelievable. Cluster munitions, fuel air bombs and multiple rocket launchers (MRL’s) are shown to have been used on civilians. And you don’t give a fu** because they are white.

It is at times like this, with people like you that I feel ashamed of the left.

Your continued false equivalence as a mitigation to war crimes against ‘white people’ is just bizarre in the extreme. That you use the actions of NATO in defence of Russia who are attacking a non-NATO country is just pathetic.

We used vacuum bombs in Afghanistan and civilians were killed on at least one occasion, NATO used cluster bombs in Yugoslavia when it was still called Yugoslavia. Were they war crimes? Its a ****en war. Have they used white phosphorus yet?

They've already lied about those people on Snake Island, used video of chemical plant explosion from China and made up some bullshit about one fighter pilot shooting down half the Russian Air Force. Why should we believe those stories? Because the media in Australia has been priming us with stories of thermobaric weapons for days. There is no evidence and no confirmation of it yet. Even the US said there is no evidence of using one yet. Not that they should care given they dropped them in Afghanistan and killed at least one child.

But yeah we're done.

 

[ferball]

I can’t recall ever meeting anyone who believes the hundreds of civilians deaths as a result of NATO bombing in the Yugoslavia were anything but a tragedy.

Having said that, it seems a bit strange to draw a correlation from Yugoslavia’s demise to NATO’s campaign, and entirely omit Milosevic‘s decision to embark on a merry campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So the civilian deaths in Ukraine are also nothing but a tragedy right?

 

[B4Bear]

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Read the twitter thread I linked. Or this thread. And yes the racism is real. When people talk about systemic racism this is what they mean. What you typed is actually an attempt to minimise or justify it the way I'm sposed to be justifying Putin's war.

I read the thread and I agree with it. I am not saying the racism is not real. I can see an argument to say it is one type of systemic racism, although it is probably not what I would immediately think of in those terms. I guess I tend to look at it more within a specific society.

I just don't think it is entirely down to racism. If the Chinese nationalists had set up shop in Laos, and China invaded tomorrow after events playing out similarly for a few months, I reckon we'd see a very similar reaction.

I'm certainly not trying to minimise the racist element, it's certainly a bit sickening to see the coverage it gets compared to other events. But we live in a nation dominated by western Europeans who cling on to ideas of the centrality of events in other countries full of western Europeans.

If you ever get a chance have a read of this: Fuglestad, Finn, 'The Trevor-Roper Trap or the Imperialism of History. An Essay', History in Africa, vol 19, 1992, pp 309-26.

 

[Lomas]

View attachment 1336441

View attachment 1336441

I don't mean to be an arse, but things seem emotive enough here without posting what I assume is a picture of civilian casualties. Apologies if my assumption is incorrect.

 

[Eggs11]

So the civilian deaths in Ukraine are also nothing but a tragedy right?

The day you realise the guy you’re defending is being investigated for war crimes and crimes against humanity is a good day for a rethink.

 

[Makeshift Park]

So the civilian deaths in Ukraine are also nothing but a tragedy right?

That’s not what I said. I said everyone thinks that it was tragic. Not that it was tragic and that’s it, end of story.

Not that it justifies was happened, but there are many important differences between then and now.

Then, NATO was responding to a genuine imminent humanitarian catastrophe. The only people who deny that are Milosevic’s henchmen. Now, Russia is using the pretext of liberating an oppressed people when there is quite simply insufficient evidence of oppression, even in Donbass, to justify any military intervention under international law.