The on topic thread

[NUFC Tiger]

Germany got stung with the collapse of their pay TV and football channels in the early 2000's that send a few clubs perilously close to bankruptcy.

This lead to a league wide push towards stable commercial deals becoming the desired form of income for football clubs.

Bayern for this very reason make virtually no revenue from TV rights (Pay tv in germany makes no money anyway since people dont trust it) and focus almost entirely on commercial deals, which they monster every other team in the world in.

Didn't know that Shoei - very interesting insight. Germany all have very cheap tickets (by comparison to EPL standards) too if I understand correctly as well as plenty of initiatives to give back to the fans.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Didn't know that Shoei - very interesting insight. Germany all have very cheap tickets (by comparison to EPL standards) too if I understand correctly as well as plenty of initiatives to give back to the fans.

50+1 rule for fan ownership helps too.

Bayern Munich's and Barca's season tickets at their cheapest are around 200 aud.

 

[moomba]

Watched the first official NYCFC match last night against St Mirren.

Was entertaining, they have a couple of decent players too. Going to be at the friendly on Sunday against Brondby too.

 

[RickSanchez]

 

[NUFC Tiger]

What do we name it though.

The Hooligan Report Arena? Might be appropriate for when the Glasgow Derby resumes.

 

[Dirty Bird]

It's terrible for the difference between the championship and the PL though. It's really got out of control.

THIS!!!!!!!!!
If it doesn't happen I worry about what will happen to the Championship and Premier League.

Without filtering the money to lower leagues, what I see potentially happening is

1) Championship becoming more uncompetitive as a few teams throw huge $ to get promoted. This creates a divide in the championships.
2) For those who try and fail, the clubs could go bankrupt and go the way of Portsmouth spiralling down the Diamond (Look at the English League system, it is a diamond not a pyramid)
3) The divide is so large, teams coming up are that far behind on quality that they go straight back down

I noticed it a while back when looking through the history of the premier league, those that were at the right place (Premier League) at the right time (mid 90s) got the money and stability they never had before. Just look at the season by season history of clubs like Tottenham, Aston Villa, Newcastle etc. Up and down occasionally being relegated, then coming straight back up. They now have a newfound stability (cash) that has kept them up the top. I found it interesting that with the exception of Manchester City, almost all the top teams in the league a year or two ago were those who have been in the EPL since its foundation.

With this extra income, if it stays in the EPL, the current teams get all that help and separate themselves from the Championship. I just fear all this extra money is going to hurt English football as a whole. If this doesn't get filtered, I fear that clubs like Blackburn, Leeds, Sheffield (both) etc. will struggle to ever be a regular premier league side again as teams like Hull, Stoke, Sunderland etc. get a massive leg up by just being in the right place at the right time.

Though, I will admit, this will make the top end of the EPL more competitive, so fans of Liverpool/Tottenham etc. might actually have a realistic hope of winning the league now. But it's the bottom end I fear is going to get ruined.

ps. I do like this in the perspective of someone with a soft spot for Crystal Palace, looks like they should survive this year and that extra money will be huge in their desire to upgrade Selhurst/Build something new.

 

[SM]

Premier league isn't a charity apparently. campaigners. When the three promoted clubs begin regularly being the three relegated they'll realise what they've done.

 

[Jatz]

Premier league isn't a charity apparently. campaigners. When the three promoted clubs begin regularly being the three relegated they'll realise what they've done.

That could well happen this season yet.

 

[SM]

That could well happen this season yet.

The only way I can see clubs breaking into the PL from here will be if they do a WBA and yo-yo for a few years gradually building up a decent squad and not over-spending.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Premier league isn't a charity apparently. campaigners. When the three promoted clubs begin regularly being the three relegated they'll realise what they've done.

But could it do too much damage?
A club would have to spend how much cash on getting players to be competitive with the established sides?
If they can keep them in the Championship, then it might be ok if they get straight back up. But if they lose players, or whatnot, I fear a Portsmouth type collapse for teams who drop down 5-10 years from now if we retain the status quo with the tv right distribution.

 

[Dirty Bird]

The only way I can see clubs breaking into the PL from here will be if they do a WBA and yo-yo for a few years gradually building up a decent squad and not over-spending.

True, that could work.
And probably the best method in theory, just need that 1st breakthrough.

 

[SM]

But could it do too much damage?
A club would have to spend how much cash on getting players to be competitive with the established sides?
If they can keep them in the Championship, then it might be ok if they get straight back up. But if they lose players, or whatnot, I fear a Portsmouth type collapse for teams who drop down 5-10 years from now if we retain the status quo with the tv right distribution.

I think clubs are too clever now for that to happen again, but what it means is they just won't over spend in the PL and will drop right back down. They'll be set up well for life in the Championship, and likely will bounce back, but it could just mean we get a group of 6 teams that alternate 3 in the PL one year and the other 3 in the Championship, then they flip.

 

[Jatz]

I think clubs are too clever now for that to happen again, but what it means is they just won't over spend in the PL and will drop right back down. They'll be set up well for life in the Championship, and likely will bounce back, but it could just mean we get a group of 6 teams that alternate 3 in the PL one year and the other 3 in the Championship, then they flip.

Don't think you'd ever see those 6 teams you speak of. Just have to look at the likes of Bournemouth and Brentford to see how random the Championship can be.

Will the parachute payments increase with the new deal?

 

[SM]

Don't think you'd ever see those 6 teams you speak of. Just have to look at the likes of Bournemouth and Brentford to see how random the Championship can be.

Will the parachute payments increase with the new deal?

Would presume so, they did last time.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

IMO, the promotion/relegation yoyo is not an issue atm unless we are expecting the promoted sides to all stay up. If 1 promoted team is staying up every season that's a reasonable result. I can't see the Pompey situation occuring again. FFP pretty much stops this happening unless you are a complete **** like QPR or Leeds. Hopefully it encourages clubs in the Football league to invest in youth as opposed to buying Ben Haim and the like on huge wages at the end of their career. A higher allocation of $$ does need filter down the leagues to give teams an opportunity to get promoted to the premier league. Totally unrealistic, but if you allocated 50% of TV $$ to the EPL, 15% to the Championship, 15% to League 1, 15% to League 2 & the remaining 5% to the tiers below it would make all the leagues more sustainable. i.e. tv revenue directed towards the sustainability of the game rather than who gets the highest tv numbers or where you finish in the table.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

THIS!!!!!!!!!
If it doesn't happen I worry about what will happen to the Championship and Premier League.

Without filtering the money to lower leagues, what I see potentially happening is

1) Championship becoming more uncompetitive as a few teams throw huge $ to get promoted. This creates a divide in the championships.
2) For those who try and fail, the clubs could go bankrupt and go the way of Portsmouth spiralling down the Diamond (Look at the English League system, it is a diamond not a pyramid)
3) The divide is so large, teams coming up are that far behind on quality that they go straight back down

I noticed it a while back when looking through the history of the premier league, those that were at the right place (Premier League) at the right time (mid 90s) got the money and stability they never had before. Just look at the season by season history of clubs like Tottenham, Aston Villa, Newcastle etc. Up and down occasionally being relegated, then coming straight back up. They now have a newfound stability (cash) that has kept them up the top. I found it interesting that with the exception of Manchester City, almost all the top teams in the league a year or two ago were those who have been in the EPL since its foundation.

With this extra income, if it stays in the EPL, the current teams get all that help and separate themselves from the Championship. I just fear all this extra money is going to hurt English football as a whole. If this doesn't get filtered, I fear that clubs like Blackburn, Leeds, Sheffield (both) etc. will struggle to ever be a regular premier league side again as teams like Hull, Stoke, Sunderland etc. get a massive leg up by just being in the right place at the right time.

Though, I will admit, this will make the top end of the EPL more competitive, so fans of Liverpool/Tottenham etc. might actually have a realistic hope of winning the league now. But it's the bottom end I fear is going to get ruined.

ps. I do like this in the perspective of someone with a soft spot for Crystal Palace, looks like they should survive this year and that extra money will be huge in their desire to upgrade Selhurst/Build something new.

A good point about the gap between Premier League and Championship, but I really disagree about the Championship and the potential to be uncompetitive. If anything, it’s gotten even more competitive the more money that is being pumped into the Premier League. In fact, the Championship is so competitive, teams that have never been below the 2nd tier in their history have spent some time down there. There’s a lot to like about the Championship. There are many different teams in that league that could easily become Premier League teams, it’s a long list of potential candidates. The question is, can they be consistent enough to survive the first season, and learn from their mistakes, and establish something longer term?


On the flip side, I have heard reports from your Yeovils and your Doncasters that going from League 1 to Championship is becoming harder these days (Though looking at Wolverhampton and Brentford, you wouldn’t think so.) It is becoming harder to stay in the Championship as a newly promoted side if you’re not a well established club. So if anything, the big problem might actually be 3rd tier into 2nd tier at the rate things are going. There are many potential contenders in the Championship, and when you’re relegation fodder, it really shows.


That brings us to one other factor: The bounce back factor. QPR were the only team that bounced back up last season, and that was through the playoffs. The stats aren’t pretty for those relegated: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...unce-straight-back-from-the-Championship.html Not often do these teams bounce back, and the longer they stay down there, the harder it is to get out (Case in point: Leicester).


If Premier League teams are as OP as the public are led to believe, then those three teams would come straight back up. Even without a couple of their best players, they should still be up there, they would be more appealing to go to than, say, a Blackpool, right? They’ve got parachute payments, they still have a really good squad, so they should be able to take advantage of it, right? Not spend 11 mil on ‘Flashy player of last season’ and inflate the market... wait...



Norwich, Cardiff and Fulham haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory, especially once the good bits are removed. Respectable managers like Felix Magath are being found out in a different ball game that the Championship. It’s a bit weird when you think that some managers and players can struggle at a lower level, Paul Konchesky and Dean Hammond comes to mind here. Once you get to Chmapionship level, it’s just vastly different. Anything goes. Without the right mindset, you could find yourself in a battle to save your self from relegation to League 1 before you call yourself ‘Championship Real Barcelona.’



In all honesty, promotion works if you can get at least one of the sides to stay in the Premier League, which is what you want, a chance for the lower sides to come good and contribute to the quality of the league. That’s what you want. Truth be told, I think Leicester do have enough quality to be in the Premier League for at least another season, but one lesson that we have learned is that you need to be consistent, make fewer errors, and keep it up for the full game. There’s also learning the lesson that one needs to be more clinical in their finishing. You have less time in the Premier League, and half chances become more important. We’re one of the biggest underachievers (Everton might have us covered) in the League. The last few times a team finishes with 100+ points, they finish midtable. To be at the bottom end, especially considering what we’ve done... I sometimes wonder if I would rather be like Burnley, giving our all and likely falling just short, rather than have our team, which we know the potential is there, but waste it away like we have...


Anyway, despite what people think, I think the gap between the bottom teams of the Premier League and the top half of the Championship is closing. Honestly, teams from Palace down don’t look out of place in the Championship, and I could see the likes of Brentford taking it up to West Brom. If you want to stay in the league, you have to be consistent, make fewer errors then your opponents, and win against teams you should be winning against. No good winning 5-3 against United if you get done 1-0 from an own goal against West Brom. The West Brom game is why newly promoted teams get done in, they don’t win games against opposition they really should be winning against. Remember, in the Championship, there’s not much separating the best teams, which is why for the most part, we see some brand new faces pop up to the Premier League (Hi Hull!)


Money to stay competitive is actually as not as much of a factor as one would give credit for. All the teams get a large deal of money, 60 mill this year, yet guys like Pelle want to chose Southampton, Stoke, and Palace over Leicester, QPR, and Burnley. Sometimes it does win out, but foolish handling of it will see you suffer like Leeds and Pompey. You're given more money than what you could possibly do with if you were still in the Championship, that 60 million should cover you well enough, provided you're not stupid with it. You goal is to at least survive the first season, and build from there.

Teams like Derby and Middesborough would really like their chances against any of the current bottom 8. Heck, I did. The saddest thing is, I know we can not only compete, but make an impact, we're being let out by our stupid errors.


I’ll tell you one thing, if Burnley survive, its proof that you don’t need a large amount of dosh just to survive. They had a team that took them to 2nd last season, and they made minor improvements. Then they can start getting a little more ambitious once they get that season under their belt.


If you want to ensure what’s best for the game, I do encourage the FA to ensure that the gap between the big teams to the lower teams in the Premier League is closing, and also 20th of the PL and 1st of the Championship is closing, but please do not forget about 24th in the Championship and 1st of League 1, because its these smaller teams that will strain themselves to get there.





Phew, that was a length and a half. Sorry if I have gone on for so long. It’s just that I feel that sometimes there are other points that might be missed. I have faith that PL to Championship will be closer, but it’s blow that is a little worrying, especially as teams are getting more even these days. Of course, this is just from a relegation point of view... then again Southampton is doing some nice things, I wonder if they can keep it up?

 

[Dirty Bird]

Great post Fryer Tuck.
One of the best I've seen on BigFooty in a while

 

[Bojan KantKick]

David Conn on how the TV rights deal is farked.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/feb/11/premier-league-richard-scudamore-sky-tv-deal

 

[SM]

In fairness you point to clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Spurs who were never historically very good suddenly finding new stability in the Premier League era, but ignore clubs like Charlton, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday/United etc. who were in the PL in the early days and don't look like getting close to it again any time soon.

 

[Indie_]

What exactly is the significant difference between Joe Allen and Ander Herrera?

 

[Loonerty]

Hazard's signed a 5.5 year deal!

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

What exactly is the significant difference between Joe Allen and Ander Herrera?

One is Spanish and a gun mind and the other is welsh and shit.

 

[Latro]

One is in a match fixing scandal.

 

[Magma]

one hasnt ****ed a close relative of louis van gaal

 

[Latro]

CAF Team of the Tournament:

Goalkeeper: Sylvain Gbohouo (Côte d’Ivoire) – Robert Kidiaba (RD Congo)

Defenders: Serge Aurier (Côte d’Ivoire), Harrison Afful (Ghana), Abib Kolo Toure (Côte d’Ivoire)

Midfielders: Andre Ayew (Ghana), Yaya Toure (Côte d’Ivoire), Max Alain Gradel (Côte d’Ivoire), Yannick Bolasie (DR Congo), Gervinho (Côte d’Ivoire)

Forwards: Christian Atsu (Ghana), Wilfried Bony (Côte d’Ivoire)

I think they forgot they can only name 1 keeper and can only play 11 players.