Competitions The Pieman 2025

[dogwatch]

Pieman Season 14 is now open!

Welcome to Pieman 14. Welcome back to the old hands and welcome to anyone wanting to try it for the first time.

There is only one minor rule change for 2025. The Chump bonus has been reduced from 40% to 30% of your raw score. (A Chump is when you select five different players and all five kick at least one goal each).

For those who have never played before it's pretty simple:

• You pick 5 Western Bulldogs players each week.
• You get a certain number of points when any of them kicks a goal. The points you get are different depending on the player.

It’s as simple as that.
Well ... almost.

Here’s a little more explanation of how it works:

• Everything happens in this thread
• I publish goalkicking “handicaps” for each player for each round (the less likely he is to kick goals, the higher his handicap will be)
• Each time one of your players kicks a goal you accrue points equal to that player's handicap
• The highest total points each week wins the "Kelvin" for that round
• The winner of the comp overall ("The Pieman") is the one who has accumulated most points at the end of the year, covering all games the Dogs play, including finals
• You can use your picks any way you like including doubling up on one player or even tripling up BUT you may not have one player four times or five times. Three is the max.
• So for instance you could have:
  • Bont, Davidson, Williams, Sanders, Naughton
  • 2x Bont, 2x Naughton, 1x Sanders
  • 3x Bont, Darcy, West
  • 3x Bont, 2x Darcy

… and so on. But you can’t have (for example) 5x Bont. Or 4x Bont, 1x West.

• If in any game you have selected five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal this is called a Chump. For that you get a 30% point bonus on your entire team's score.
• There are also provisions for substitutes if any of your players are withdrawn, or if you forget to put your entry in - so once you start the season you are guaranteed 5 picks each week, even if you forget. See the full rules below for details.
• You can use these substitute/carryover rules to have a "set-and-forget" team for the whole season if you want to be in the comp but can't be bothered posting a new team each week.

Here's a link to last year's thread for anyone interested in how it works (or to re-live the season if you were a participant).

There's no need to do anything until teams are announced for the first round. You simply enter by posting your five picks in this thread before the game starts. However it'd be handy to know in advance if you're planning to play. Just post here saying you're in.

Late Joining?
You can also join after the first round has been completed. Instead of missing out on all points for that round you can get a randomly generated team retrospectively for that round. This offer is open for the first 3 rounds. After that it’s too late to join.

If you let me know some time after round 1 that you want to be in, I will generate a random team for you for each round you've missed (yes, even after the game has been played) just to keep you in the race. Random teams don't normally do all that well (just ask RandomDog) but they usually pick up a few points which is better than scoring a bagel.

The only limit on this is that any such random team can't retrospectively win the Kelvin (in fact the random team’s score will max out at 90% of the Kelvin winning score).

Who can play?
Anyone can play. You don't have to belong to the WB board. But you can only select WB players each week.

 

[dogwatch]

No need to read this post if you are one of the tl;dr set. It’s just for a bit of colour and history.



PIEMAN HISTORY AND PAST WINNERS

As nearly everybody would know by now the Pieman is named after the great Footscray (Bulldogs) great full forward of the 1980s Simon "The Pieman" Beasley.

He has kicked more goals for the club (575) than any other player. While Kelvin Templeton's 15 goals against St Kilda is the most in any one game Simon Beasley has the next four best game tallies (3 x 12 goals and 1 x 11). He won the club goalkicking award for 7 consecutive years from 1982 to 1988 and he won the Coleman Medal with 93 goals in H&A games in 1985 in an era of great full forwards. He went on to kick 105 goals that year because he kicked another 12 in the finals. He debuted as a mature player from WA, aged 25 and retired at the age of 32 after 154 games.

Kelvin Templeton is no less decorated but in different ways. He won the club goalkicking 5 times (1976-1980), kicked 15 in a game (1978), kicked 118 in a season (1978) the most by any Bulldog player. By the time he transferred to Melbourne late in his injury-shortened career he had kicked a club record of 494. It's still the fourth highest for the club behind Beasley, Brad Johnson and Chris Grant. Templeton was also a club captain (1982), a club best and fairest (1980) and a Brownlow Medallist (1980). He played 143 games for the Bulldogs and managed only another 34 games and 99 goals for Melbourne before retiring at the age of 28.

So we've named the weekly highest score in the Pieman competition "The Kelvin" in his honour.

The Original Pieman

This is not really footy but it's an interesting piece of Australian trivia while we are talking about Piemen.

William Francis King (1807–1873), better known as ‘The Flying Pieman’, accomplished a series of bizarre athletic feats during the 1840s. King came to New South Wales from his native London in 1829 and worked as a schoolmaster and a private tutor before getting a job as a barman. Around 1834, he went into business as a pieman, selling his wares around Hyde Park and Circular Quay. Here, became known for his practice of offering pies to passengers boarding the Parramatta steamer and then running the 30 kilometre distance to the boat’s terminus and offering any unsold stock to the same passengers as they disembarked. Between 1842 and 1851, he completed numerous feats and challenges around Sydney, the Hunter Valley, and later, Brisbane. These included walking 2630 kilometres, mainly in the rain, in 39 days; racing the Windsor to Sydney mail coach on foot and twice beating it; carrying a 32 kilogram dog from Campbelltown to Sydney in under seven hours, and hauling an even weightier goat from Sydney to Parramatta in similar time. He walked from Brisbane to Ipswich carrying a 45 kilogram wooden pole and beating the mail coach by an hour; and in Maitland in 1847 had himself horsewhipped to spur him on in the midst of a ten-day, 402 kilometre walking challenge. He returned to Sydney in the 1850s and became a noticeable street character, wandering the streets, selling pies, and issuing proclamations to passers-by. His distinctive attire is said to have included crimson knee-breeches, white stockings, a staff, and a top hat to which either streamers or paper tickets were attached. He died, destitute, at the Liverpool Asylum in 1873, aged sixty-six.

This photo was taken a few years before he died.

Source of photo and text:

William Francis King, 'The Flying Pieman', c. 1869 ​

William Francis King (1807–1873), better known as ‘The Flying Pieman’, accomplished a series of bizarre athletic feats during the 1840s. King came to New South Wales from his native London in 1829 and worked as a schoolmaster and a private tutor before getting a job as a barman. Around 1834, he...

www.portrait.gov.au


OTHER PIEMEN IN AUSTRALIAN HISTORY

• There is a traditional bush dance called The Flying Pieman, possibly named after this bloke. And there was even an eponymous "Flying Piemen" bush band in Melbourne in the the 1970s and 80s. Some of you might have even heard them play.
• The once-common suggestion that Tasmania's Pieman River got its English name from a convict "The Pieman" Alexander Pearce who was responsible for one of the few recorded instances of cannibalism in Australia, is not correct. "The Pieman" was in fact Thomas Kent of Southampton, a pastry-cook who was transported to Van Diemen's Land in 1816. After a long series of offences in the colony, he was sent to the Macquarie Harbour Penal Station in 1822 but subsequently escaped, and was recaptured near the mouth of the river which now bears his nickname. [source: wikipedia]

The Pieman Honour Roll
Here is the list of winners since we started in 2012. You used to get a pie 'n sauce badge under your avatar if you won the Pieman but I'm not sure if that happens any more. I had one for a while but somewhere along the line it disappeared. Is that something we could re-introduce mods?

• 2012 josh the gent
• 2013 grassman75
• 2014 dogwatch
• 2015 lachy
• 2016 StringyDog
• 2017 jaxie1
• 2018 X_box_X
• 2019 Snarls Barkley
• 2020 Charlie Bucket
• 2021 Wocka
• 2022 TiAn_
• 2023 Curly5
• 2024 X_box_X

Last year X_box_X became the first player to win the Pieman twice. Can one of the above join him? Will he back up with a third title? Or will someone else add their name to this illustrious list?

 

[dogwatch]

PIEMAN 2025 RULES

A. How to Enter

1. Anyone on BF can enter, even people from other boards
2. You enter by making 5 selections of Western Bulldogs players in the Pieman 2025 thread.
3. Those 5 selections can be five different players, or you can pick the same player as many as three times (no more than that though). So the legitimate combinations are 5x1, 2+1+1+1, 2+2+1, 3+1+1 and 3+2.
4. Entries must be lodged with a post in the designated Pieman thread (ie this thread) by match start time.
5. You may change your entry but you must do it with a new post, not by amending your original post. It’s too hard to track whether an entry is legit if I allow edits. It also makes the admin harder.
6. Late in the season (from about Rd 16) you may choose to PM your selections to me instead of posting them here. They still need to be PM'd by match start time of course. That way your selections remain secret until after the game starts. It means that others can't match your selections to stay in front if it's neck and neck in the comp. (Not that anyone here would try to do that!)

B. How Your Score is Calculated and How Winners are Decided

1. Players are allocated a handicap. The more likely the player is to score a goal the lower his handicap. The handicaps are revised according to form and team selections every week and published in the Pieman 2024 thread.
2. Handicaps may sometimes be published early in the week to give you a chance to contemplate this week's entry but the handicaps will be provisional until the WB team is announced. The handicap list will be culled and handicaps finalised after the club's team selection announcement. While the aim is not to change any of the provisional handicaps I do reserve the right to adjust any handicap immediately after team selection (mainly if there are some selection surprises affecting our forwards). I'll post a message here if I do make any changes.
3. Players listed as emergencies will also be given a handicap in case they become a late inclusion.
4. You score Pieman points every time one of your players kicks a goal. The number of points you get per goal is equal to the player’s handicap value for that game. So for example if you have Tim English and at the end of the game (with a hypothetical handicap of 13) he has kicked 4 goals then you will get 52 points. However if you had him doubled up you get 104 points, or 156 points if you tripled up.
5. Your weekly Pieman score is the sum of Pieman points accumulated by all 5 of your players in that game, plus any bonus points earned (see below).
6. A bonus is awarded if you have five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal. This is called a Chump. To be quite clear: you are NOT eligible for the bonus if your five picks include any player more than once. The bonus is 30% of your whole team's score (rounded down if rounding is necessary).
7. The entry with the most Pieman Points for the week is the winner of the Kelvin for that week.
8. The entry with the most Pieman Points accumulated over the entire season including any finals is the winner of the Pieman for the year.
9. If two or more entries have the same number of total points there is no tie-breaker for the Kelvin or the Pieman. The award is shared.

C. Anomalies: Forgotten Entries, Set & Forget Entries, Substitutes, Forgotten Handicaps

1. If you don’t put a new entry in for any given game you automatically get your five picks from the previous game. This is called your default team. This allows you to operate your entry as a “Set-and-Forget” if you don’t want to be bothered posting a new team every week. It also covers you if you genuinely forget to enter your team before the first bounce.
2. If any of your default players from the previous game aren’t playing or if one or more of your picks is a late withdrawal and you don’t update your entry before match start time you get a substitute player in each case.
3. If you do opt for the set-and-forget approach it is likely that the make-up of your team will gradually change over the course of the year due to the occasional need for a substitute player. If one of your original players returns to the senior side you do NOT automatically get him back in your team - you carry on with whoever the substitutes are. You will have to intervene by posting a new team if you want to reset your team. You can do this at any time during the season.
4. If one of your selected players starts the game as the medical substitute you will automatically be allocated a Pieman substitute from the selected side of 22 as described below, even if the medical substitute ends up playing substantial game time. For consistency and simplicity this is not discretionary - you do not have the option of naming or retaining the medical substitute in your team.
5. Substitute players are allocated from the final selected side of 22 as follows:
   • If you have selected a player multiple times (2x or 3x) and he doesn't play then you only get one player as the substitute for that player and your substitute has the same multiple. For example you don't get three different players if your 3x multiple doesn't play. You get one player as a 3x.
   • Your substitute is the player not already in your team who scored the most goals in the last WB game (previous round)
   • If there is more than one such player on the same number of goals from the last game it is the one with the greater handicap value UNLESS we are deciding between players who kicked zero goals last game, in which case it’s the one with the lowest handicap value. (Yes it sounds weird but there’s a rationale for that.)
   • If they are also equal on handicap value it is the one who has scored most goals over the season so far
   • If they remain equal after all of the above it is the one with the lowest jumper number (#1 is lower than #44)
   • Your substitutes for any selected multiples (3x then 2x) are determined first, then the single (1x) selections.
   • If the substitute is required in Round 1 (ie where there is no prior game) or if for some reason the above method doesn’t deliver a valid substitute then it’s the player who is NOT in your team who has the lowest handicap value, and then if a further tie-breaker is required it's the one with the lower jumper number
   • We repeat the same substitute selection procedure in any given round for as many times as you need to add substitute players.
6. If you forgot or somehow failed to put your entry in for any rounds up to and including round 3 there is obviously no previous week's entry that would constitute your default team. If you let me know you want to be in the comp I will generate a random team for you after the event from the 22 who played. Random teams don't normally do very well but they typically register a few points so it keeps your season tally ticking over and it means that despite missing the start you have less ground to catch up over the season. The only provisos are:
   
   • (1) you cannot win the Kelvin with one of these retrospectively chosen teams
   • (2) you cannot receive more than 90% (rounded down) of the points scored by the Kelvin winner that week. If your random team would have scored more than that it is simply capped at 90% of the Kelvin winning score.
   • (3) The offer only applies to Rounds 1 to 3. You can still join the comp after that but you will only get a retrospective random team for the first three weeks.
7. The aim will be to publish a new handicap list each week, although once the season has settled down the weekly variations will probably only be minor. However if for any reason the handicaps aren’t published by match start time (unlikely) the players will retain the same handicaps they had in their previous senior game. If a player is playing his first game for the season AND no handicaps have been published he will be allocated a default handicap of 20.
8. The published results are generally final but if you think there’s been an error or some other anomaly let me know and I’ll consider whether a correction is justified.
9. If any situation arises that is not covered by these rules I’ll try to resolve it within the spirit of the competition.
10. Similarly if it becomes apparent that a rule change or a new rule is required during the season (hopefully not!) I'll try to do that with minimal impact and within the spirit of the comp.

D. Fun

• Be competitive but make sure you have fun! That’s what it's for.

 

[dogwatch]

List of those who are playing this year, so far:

dogwatch*​

RandomDog (yes, he's back)​

BulldogMuscle​

theAthenian​

54Bulldog16​

Snarls Barkley*​

Wocka*​

Doggies_13​

Brian Perrin​

grassman75*​

​

fargy​

Fossie 32​

Northern Dogs​

lachy*​

LordC​

shacf501​

TiAn_*​

_Mike _​

ossie_21​

Buckingham​

​

SPower​

Kermit​

Struggle​

Palace03​

WAbulldog​

Charlie Bucket​

Dogs_R_Us​

Cerberus​

Zeno the Great​

weltschmerz​

​

Boyd oh Boyd​

Northern Dogs​

Foxman98​

manutd/dogs​

...​

* = past winner


Post below if you want to be in.

 

[dogwatch]

(Reserved post)

 

[BulldogMuscle]

 

[theAthenian]

Greetings
sign me up

 

[54Bulldog16]

Please count me in DW

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I'll definitely be in but I'll need a reminder the day before the season starts like I do every year

 

[Wocka]

Only here for the Pieman

 

[Doggies_13]

Thanks for running it again DW, count me in

 

[Brian Perrin]

Please count me in DW


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[fargy]

Please include me Dogwatch

 

[grassman75]

There’s no pieman with out a grass man.

In DW

THANKS

 

[Fossie 32]

 

[Northern Dogs]

In too please

 

[Bulldog rick]

I'm in if I don't get blown away from the cyclone.

 

[lachy]

Yes will be in again trying to.win after a decade

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LordC]

In


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wocka]

List of those who are playing this year, so far:

dogwatch*​

RandomDog (yes, he's back)​

BulldogMuscle​

theAthenian​

54Bulldog16​

Snarls Barkley*​

Wocka​

Doggies_13​

Brian Perrin​

grassman75*​

fargy​

Fossie 32​

Northern Dogs​

lachy*​

LordC​

...​

* = past winner


Post below if you want to be in.

.....cough......cough

 

[Shacf501]

Thanks for running it again mate! I'm in for sure!

 

[Shacf501]

Actually mate, I don't get to many games but I reckon a few of us on here should shout you a bite to eat and a beer for you running this thing comp every year!

 

[dogwatch]

Actually mate, I don't get to many games but I reckon a few of us on here should shout you a bite to eat and a beer for you running this thing comp every year!

Thanks shacf. Nice thought, but no need. I enjoy it.

Anyway I don't get to many games either. Didn't manage a single game last year.

 

[TiAn_]

Thanks as always, I’m in!

 

[grassman75]

Yes will be in again trying to.win after a decade

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

There are only a select few who can claim to be pie masters. One day we will have a reunion of winners to celebrate our achievements