The Race to 17

[The Airing of Grievances]

Oh, and BTW, even under the current flag count, it looks like Lions get to 17 before we do

 

[Colonial]

So silly welfare queens.

Ooh you ok?

The premiership count needs to be reset when Tasmania comes into the competition so it can be fair for you.

Fact of the matter is - the sport is Australian but the competition came from Victoria.

Actually no. The reset happened when it became a national comp.

 

[mighty_lions]

The problem with your argument is that the selection of a new "Year One" is entirely arbitary. You have chosen 1990 , which can be justified as being the year the name VFL was discarded and the new new moniker AFL adopted. But the reality is the game in 1990 was no different in any respect that from 1987-89 , when Brisbane and West Coast joined the 'old' VFL clubs .

If the criteria in counting premierships is that teams are made up of fully professional players rather than those who held jobs, do we then go back and find the year when the last player who had a non footy job played and count them from there. The fact is there was no one year when football became a fully professional game, there was a gradual evolution from every player also having a job , through a few fully professional players( probably late 1960s-early 70s) to most players being full time pros by the end of the 1970s
.
But I'm still not sure why it is considered that seasons played in an earlier era don't count because levels of professionalism were different then. It's just one of a numerous ways in which the game evolved, with different methods for determining the premier, different rules, different fixtures( and even now the fully professional era has the most distorted unfair fixturing arrangements the human imagination can come up with), different methods for allocation of players between clubs.
The one constant is that in each season of competition all clubs competed under the same set of arrangements
.
If being fully professional is the sole criterion of sporting excellence in competition, do we discount all Olympic Gold medals won in the amateur era, all Davis Cups won before 1968, all Test matches played before the Packer era? Do Bradmans scores have no meaning? Yes, we may qualify our estimation our rankings of the relative strength and weight of past achievements by considering changing contexts, but that's a different thing from pretending they don't exist.

the VFL was an entirely different competition to today, only supporters that want to have a big dick competition care, the premierships should be separated into VFL and AFL era from 1987 onwards, no one is pretending they dont exist but suggesting a premiership from 1900 as an AFL premiership is laughable

 

[Bagger72]

Ooh you ok?

Actually no. The reset happened when it became a national comp.

..and GWS was no where to be found.

 

[Bagger72]

the VFL was an entirely different competition to today, only supporters that want to have a big dick competition care, the premierships should be separated into VFL and AFL era from 1987 onwards, no one is pretending they dont exist but suggesting a premiership from 1900 as an AFL premiership is laughable

It was a different competition - a tougher and purer competition - no handouts were given - no welfare queens. Success was built on the back of people not AFLs discretion and welfare handouts.

 

[mighty_lions]

It was a different competition - a tougher and purer competition - no handouts were given - no welfare queens. Success was built on the back of people not AFLs discretion and welfare handouts.

please enlighten me on the 1906 grand final, im sure it was enthralling contest, tell me how tough and pure it was I would love to know

 

[Bagger72]

please enlighten me on the 1906 grand final, im sure it was enthralling contest, tell me how tough and pure it was I would love to know

One thing is for sure - the 1906 Premiership was won on the back of people not governing bodies.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Premierships before 1990 should not count. I mean most the premierships you are listing here happened when the VFL was only an amateur competition.

Why such an arbitrary and very subjective decree? Just because of the name change of the league? The league went national in 1982, and expanded further in 1987. You could even argue it didn't become truly "professional" until players became full time employees from the 2000s. The name change isn't even relevant to the reality of when the league became national and professional. There won't even be a team in every state until 2028, so it's still not totally national from a state point.

 

[mighty_lions]

One thing is for sure - the 1906 Premiership was won on the back of people not governing bodies.

how do u know? tell me about the politics of the time of the 1906 premiership? laughable and embarrassing

 

[Bagger72]

how do u know? tell me about the politics of the time of the 1906 premiership? laughable and embarrassing

As embarassing as calling yourselves Premiers after decades of receiving welfare.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

the VFL was an entirely different competition to today, only supporters that want to have a big dick competition care, the premierships should be separated into VFL and AFL era from 1987 onwards, no one is pretending they dont exist but suggesting a premiership from 1900 as an AFL premiership is laughable

Why 87? Why not 82 when the first interstate team appeared? Or, furthermore, why not when players became actual pros from the 2000s, not semi-pros prior if we're making up rules about only acknowledging a certain standard of the league? There's a lot of moving of the goalposts when you start making up random rules when it's the same league.

 

[mighty_lions]

Why such an arbitrary and very subjective decree? Just because of the name change of the league? The league went national in 1982, and expanded further in 1987. You could even argue it didn't become truly "professional" until players became full time employees from the 2000s. The name change isn't even relevant to the reality of when the league became national and professional. There won't even be a team in every state until 2028, so it's still not totally national from a state point.

the name change isn't that arbitrary though, the premierships still happened they just happened in a competition called the VFL so call it that x vfl premierships and x afl premierships

 

[mighty_lions]

As embarassing as calling yourselves Premiers after decades of receiving welfare.

I dont call us premiers, I call us back 2 back Premiers

 

[Bagger72]

I dont call us premiers, I call us back 2 back Premiers

Please give more monies.

 

[mighty_lions]

Why 87? Why not 82 when the first interstate team appeared? Or, furthermore, why not when players became actual pros from the 2000s, not semi-pros prior if we're making up rules about only acknowledging a certain standard of the league? There's a lot of moving of the goalposts when you start making up random rules when it's the same league.

it was a more national competition in 87 but im happy to have it just at 90, call the others VFL premierships which they where

 

[mighty_lions]

Please give more monies.

in brown paper bags??? no worries John

 

[GoldbergsGold]

the name change isn't that arbitrary though, the premierships still happened they just happened in a competition called the VFL so call it that x vfl premierships and x afl premierships

It's the same league that had a name change. That would be like saying The Western Bulldogs are a brand new team that started in 1997, because of their name change.

 

[mighty_lions]

It's the same league that had a name change. That would be like saying The Western Bulldogs are a brand new team that started in 1997, because of their name change.

no it wouldn't thats a terrible analogy, the competition clearly changed and calling it the AFL is the delineation of that, the dogs changing there name is not a change in anything bar there name, the vfl clearly changed when that change is is debatable but its clearly not the same as 1900

 

[GoldbergsGold]

it was a more national competition in 87 but im happy to have it just at 90, call the others VFL premierships which they where

So, then Footscray is an entirely different club than the Western Bulldogs because of the name change? Name changing always creates a new entity?

 

[mighty_lions]

So, then Footscray is an entirely different club than the Western Bulldogs because of the name change? Name changing always creates a new entity?

see above post

 

[GoldbergsGold]

no it wouldn't thats a terrible analogy, the competition clearly changed and calling it the AFL is the delineation of that, the dogs changing there name is not a change in anything bar there name, the vfl clearly changed when that change is is debatable but its clearly not the same as 1900

It's the same thing, an organization has a name change, but it's the exact same organization. There's no operational changes from VFL 1989 to AFL 1990. The VFL/AFL turned into a national comp 8 years before the name change of 1990.

 

[Bagger72]

in brown paper bags??? no worries John

The club has the financial muscle and assets without asking for welfare why not use them?

Why not allow strong state league clubs with financial clout have a chance to replace the clubs that suck the AFL dry of cash?

 

[mighty_lions]

It's the same thing, an organization has a name change, but it's the exact same organization. There's no operational changes from VFL 1989 to AFL 1990. The VFL/AFL turned into a national comp 8 years before the name change of 1990.

It didnt really change then, they shifted out south Melbourne to a bigger market in Sydney but hardly a national competition

 

[mighty_lions]

It's the same thing, an organization has a name change, but it's the exact same organization. There's no operational changes from VFL 1989 to AFL 1990. The VFL/AFL turned into a national comp 8 years before the name change of 1990.

I think your missing my point, I dont really care if its 1982, 86 or 90 but the competition evolved into something totally different that is not the same as to the competition it was, calling it the AFL is stating that fact as opposed to the VFL

Its all pointless anyway because the AFL wont ever change it because everyone wants to have the biggest dick and it would piss off too many supporters, but if my Carlton friend above truely thinks they've won 16 afl hard earned premierships I lol at that

 

[Bagger72]

I think your missing my point, I dont really care if its 1982, 86 or 90 but the competition evolved into something totally different that is not the same as to the competition it was, calling it the AFL is stating that fact as opposed to the VFL

Its all pointless anyway because the AFL wont ever change it because everyone wants to have the biggest dick and it would piss off too many supporters, but if my Carlton friend above truely thinks they've won 16 afl hard earned premierships I lol at that

Yes we won them without any welfare payments and hand outs.