Strategy The Ratugolea Conundrum

[Ricketz]

You now know my views on where the club is heading and what not. It's probably a strange one but it's just my opinion that we are not going to do any damage whatsoever in September as we aren't a legitimate threat to the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast or even GWS if they sneak in. I feel like we have nothing to lose by allowing Ratugolea to experience what Blicavs experienced when he first began, just keep playing him no matter what. At some point in time, he will turn the corner.
If we do head down the road of playing Josh Jenkins, it cripples the club and it's long-term goals of competing again for another premiership (5-7 years time) as Jenkins will give you 4 marks and a goal or 2 per game but we will bow out of finals and are stuck with playing a 32 yr old over the youth just as we have done with many of these mature aged recruits who have failed in bringing the club a flag.

Hawks must have lost to a basket case club last night...?

Collingwood? They were a better team when they were lucky to beat us at the start of the season. If they beat us it is because we let ourselves down, not because they are playing better footy or have better players on the park.

And Richmond's formline is grossly exaggerated. Lacklustre wins vs Suns, Essendon and the away from home Eagles. With some truly poor performances before that, including a loss to horribly out of form GWS at the end of July.

And we'll all be rooned, said Hanrahan,
If Scotty plays the Jenkins man? Lol

 

[ATSAM]

No they wouldnt. The anti scott brigade want a second key forward and not another tall defender playing in the forward line come finals. Or no second key forward at all and watch hawkins triple teamed.

What we need is a key forward- Hawkins, small forwards/crumbers and we have a few of them and someone playing ruck. Someone whose job that is for the entire game-with rests. Not a selection that see make-shift rucks taking players out of position such as we had in the first final last year.
So play Ratugolea. In the Ruck and instruct him to run forward or just stand there. But he is a big body and someone has to cover him. Leave Blicavs in the backline/wing.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sheesh. Glad you are not our list manager GC.

He was being talked up across the league before he was injured this year. On one game back we are talking trading him? Really?

It's probably worth mentioning that he pretty much played zero in 2018 after snapping his leg bones.

I suppose you shouldn't criticise someone for having high standards, but if it means we give a well regarded, developing talent to another team when we have no proven replacement, somebody needs to step in.

wait what?? I said he should be on the list for another 2 years which would be 6 years in the system and aged 24. I think you missed that part. Would have to re-evaluate his contribution then.

before his injury this season?? You mean his leg break?? He was dropped with soreness this year and has largely struggled to have an impact. He hasn’t had any injuries or anything significant that would affect his performances beyond fan excuses.

I think he can become a good player, but he struggles to find the ball and is very poor when it comes to finding the sticks. Please note I actually created the ratugolea toast thread years back so I am a fan. He just needs to show a lot more to validate his future and get games in the seniors. We actually look a lot better without him in the team

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

He has oodles of potential but is simply is not good enough to play at an AFL level and our structure is so much better when he is not in the team. .

We are at the pointy end and are poised to win the flag. This isn't the time for hypothetical talent, we need contributors.

Stats aren't everything, but playing full forward and kicking a goal every four games is not good enough full stop. You cannot win a flag with players like that.

He should not play for the rest of the year I would rather play Henderson or Taylor in the forward line.

 

[ATSAM]

He has oodles of potential but is simply is not good enough to play at an AFL level and our structure is so much better when he is not in the team. .

We are at the pointy end and are poised to win the flag. This isn't the time for hypothetical talent, we need contributors.

Stats aren't everything, but playing full forward and kicking a goal every four games is not good enough full stop. You cannot win a flag with players like that.

He should not play for the rest of the year I would rather play Henderson or Taylor in the forward line.

But who will ruck with Stanley injured

 

[Pollywaffle]

We actually look a lot better without him in the team

Sadly, I agree. Still think he has a future but in our current setup and with his confidence shot now isn’t the time to nurse him back into form.

 

[Ricketz]

wait what?? I said he should be on the list for another 2 years which would be 6 years in the system and aged 24. I think you missed that part. Would have to re-evaluate his contribution then.

before his injury this season?? You mean his leg break?? He was dropped with soreness this year and has largely struggled to have an impact. He hasn’t had any injuries or anything significant that would affect his performances beyond fan excuses.

I think he can become a good player, but he struggles to find the ball and is very poor when it comes to finding the sticks. Please note I actually created the ratugolea toast thread years back so I am a fan. He just needs to show a lot more to validate his future and get games in the seniors. We actually look a lot better without him in the team

Nah, fair call - I misread what you meant when you said "he could go either way at this point" as in, "he could go anyway at this point" and interpreted it to mean he could go regardless of his form or potential.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sadly, I agree. Still think he has a future but in our current setup and with his confidence shot now isn’t the time to nurse him back into form.

we can’t afford to carry a key forward who hardly touches the ball and kicks no goals... people forget that in 09 hawkins kicked 32 goals... he was contributing in a way that ratugolea is no where near at present. same with N Ablett in 07 kicking 32 goals. Hawkins/Ablett kicked 1-2 goals a game back then, ratugolea cant find the ball or the goals and doesn’t give a legitimate ruck option.

we simply cannot carry passengers when challenging for a flag like this.

What it also does is it makes Rohan a key forward target which forces him to become more involved in contests and the play. Rohan is suited to playing as a key forward more so because he is utilizing his strengths which are impacting a contest and the speed and strength overhead he possesses... where as when he plays as an outside flanker he largely struggles to get involved and read the play. You need to place him in the hotzone as a target and let him go to work. He otherwise is a poor reader of general play

 

[My Tilly]

Did well in the VFL yesterday by all accounts. Playing forward and ruck.

Poses a concern when he is fit enough to play in the seniors, where exactly does he play if both Cameron and Hawkins are in the forward line?
Does he have the right size to be a ruckman. I'm not sure there are many rucks in the league who are under 197cm tall. We went through this with Nathan Vardy

19

Nathan Vardy

Age

34

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

3.2

1star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

1.3

3star

HO

17.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.6

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

15.0

5star

and Mark Blicavs

46

Mark Blicavs

Age

35

Ht

198cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.2

5star

MG

114.1

2star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

114.1

2star

D

8.6

3star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

who were usually undersized in that position.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Did well in the VFL yesterday by all accounts. Playing forward and ruck.

Poses a concern when he is fit enough to play in the seniors, where exactly does he play if both Cameron and Hawkins are in the forward line?
Does he have the right size to be a ruckman. I'm not sure there are many rucks in the league who are under 197cm tall. We went through this with Nathan Vardy and Mark Blicavs who were usually undersized in that position.

Was very good in the periods I watched, did as expected of an AFL player for the most part but he had some really nice moments with the ball on the ground or some really neat decisions by foot that showed an new element to his game.
Hopefully can build on that.
Oh, and to where he plays. Ruck. If Stanley is going to continue the ordinary form he's currently in then I'd replace him with Sav. Net result would probably be a negative at first but he has far more promise and has age on his side.

 

[BennyGan]

Did well in the VFL yesterday by all accounts. Playing forward and ruck.

Poses a concern when he is fit enough to play in the seniors, where exactly does he play if both Cameron and Hawkins are in the forward line?
Does he have the right size to be a ruckman. I'm not sure there are many rucks in the league who are under 197cm tall. We went through this with Nathan Vardy and Mark Blicavs who were usually undersized in that position.

I want Sav to play ruck but i dont think his body could hold up playing as a number 1 ruck

 

[gaz love x]

Did well in the VFL yesterday by all accounts. Playing forward and ruck.

Poses a concern when he is fit enough to play in the seniors, where exactly does he play if both Cameron and Hawkins are in the forward line?
Does he have the right size to be a ruckman. I'm not sure there are many rucks in the league who are under 197cm tall. We went through this with Nathan Vardy and Mark Blicavs who were usually undersized in that position.

We already get smoked in the hitouts every week, have done for years. For me the most important role for the ruckman to play in this Geelong team is to provide a marking target coming out of the backline. This is where we've been really woeful and it hurts us in these games/periods of games where we get pinned in our defensive 50. Which we invite because we "absorb pressure" and "play controlling football". So this is why I'm thinking Sav might actually be our best option. If he can play with the confidence to crash packs, clunk a few, compete in the ruck, and do the bare minimum around the ground we'll be better for it.
He's still a natural forward for me but I'm warming to him being our best option in the ruck at the moment. Fitness is the concern because we'd also need him to cover ground playing 70%+ game time and I don't know where he's at there.

 

[catempire]

He will end up a ruckman if his body allows it. Scott referred last week to how he has never had a clear run at it. Always had injury setbacks.

 

[patience]

I know it was only the North seconds yesterday, but he has always had a presence around the ground. If ruck is where we can fit him in then so be it.

 

[cats_09]

I will say that his first centre bounce attack yesterday didn't fill me with a lot of confidence - it was almost a 2 leg jump at the ball, no real spring or bounce, and i thought "shit this isn't good"

He definitely got better after that

 

[Seeds]

Foward and secodn ruck only.

one of the best contested pack marks in the comp once He gets going. Has to be foward. Complements Cameron and Hawkins perfectly as neither are pack marks.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

With his leg injuries it’ll make it harder to see him as a number 1 ruck. But his height shouldn’t be an issue as he has a very good leap.
He is at least talented enough to be a really good 2nd forward/ruck. At only 22 he should be at the club for another 10 years. There is no need to rush him or panic.

He may not play every week with Cameron and hawkins. But he will be able to team up with Cameron after hawkins. And continue to play after Cameron which means we have a great succession of key forwards. Plenty can happen in that time but it’s a positive to have that.
Plus we have some other key position players like Dekoning and Neale developing with him.

 

[bulletproof]

Foward and secodn ruck only.

one of the best contested pack marks in the comp once He gets going. Has to be foward. Complements Cameron and Hawkins perfectly as neither are pack marks.

I agree, and our game style. On those occasions when we get stuck on the flank with a crowded forward line, Esava would at least give us an out. Hawkins is not even really competitive over a high ball and Cameron, I can't really say. I remember him as more of a lead and mark player, though he does occasionally take the big mark.

I'd play a ruck and Esava. Blicavs in the backline (where he is occasionally dodgy but still the best stopper we have).

 

[CatToTheFuture]

We already get smoked in the hitouts every week, have done for years. For me the most important role for the ruckman to play in this Geelong team is to provide a marking target coming out of the backline. This is where we've been really woeful and it hurts us in these games/periods of games where we get pinned in our defensive 50. Which we invite because we "absorb pressure" and "play controlling football". So this is why I'm thinking Sav might actually be our best option. If he can play with the confidence to crash packs, clunk a few, compete in the ruck, and do the bare minimum around the ground we'll be better for it.
He's still a natural forward for me but I'm warming to him being our best option in the ruck at the moment. Fitness is the concern because we'd also need him to cover ground playing 70%+ game time and I don't know where he's at there.

This 100%

I think in a lot games where we've transitioned well we've had Rhys or Sav clunking marks, if they can do that early then later in the game they draw oppo numbers and leave us with extra players in the corridor.

I don't think Stanley or Savs bodies would hold up as a lone ruckman. I think we stick one in the forward line at centre bounces but as soon as it hits the deck transition one to be an outnumber in the back half with the other around the contest. Helps us with kpd depth, helps us transition out the back half, helps us keep extra players out of Cameron's way

 

[Drunkcat]

Anyone who watched in in the VFL vs North can see he is at least a month away from AFL he was limping at times still.

 

[gaz love x]

Gee seeing him dish out the don't argues is a bit exciting

 

[Sttew]

I reckon he could be our No. 1 ruck. At 1.97m he is only 4cm shorter than Nic Nat. His leap is very good and his agility too.

 

[winty]

Gee seeing him dish out the don't argues is a bit exciting

Was a bit disappointing that the ump blew his whistle and Sav looked around momentarily in that first highlight, as I wonder if he'd have run to 50 and launched a bomb at goal if he was left to carry on like normal.

 

[longtimecat]

Scott believes we are a better team with Esava playing, I think he takes Rohan’s place as third tall forward and gives Stanley a chop out in ruck

 

[And_ROOS]

I reckon he could be our No. 1 ruck. At 1.97m he is only 4cm shorter than Nic Nat. His leap is very good and his agility too.

I agree. The issue I have with Sav is by foot he is a bit of a turn over merchant. But amazing hands too. He should have the Mark Blake rule, which is handball to someone running by every time.