Moved Thread The Riewoldt cousins

[Juddernaut08]

I dont get that either. How do you kick 78, 62 and 65 goals in 3 straight years while winning 2 colemans if youre mostly kicking goals in junk time?

Seriously? you get a lot of goals in junk time and they add up.

 

[MrDanggazz]

- 232 games, 554 goals, 41 brownlow votes and counting
If he plays to 34 like Nick, and plays 22 games (doesnt take into account possible injuries or finals) he will finish on 334 games.
At his current career average of 2.4 goals a game, he would finish on 800 goals.
With a probable decline towards the end of his career he would most likely be VERY close to Nicks 718 and very possible to go above it.
Brownlow votes he will get no where close.

- 8x leading Richmond goal kicker (and counting)
- 2x Coleman medals
- 1x premiership player (And if he gets more that gives him a real edge on Nick)
- 2x AA
- 1X Best and fairest
- Vice captain in a premiership season

Half of that list is pretty useless. Most goals and games played at a certain stadium? Nice trivia but not worth anything more.
Ditto most marks in a season and international football selections.

So what happens if Jack finished with more games, more goals, 2v0 colemans and snags another flag or 2?
I would say it would be a legit discussion then.

Yeah I’ve realised from this thread that I clearly suffer from Prematurethreadation

 

[Forward Press]

I dont get that either. How do you kick 78, 62 and 65 goals in 3 straight years while winning 2 colemans if youre mostly kicking goals in junk time?

hes a legitimate gun now tho.

Fairly sure Juddernaut isn't claiming he is junk time Jack now when he's won these Colemans...

I know, bud. Thats literally what my comment was about. Read before replying next time, thanks.

The fact that you didnt reply to any points isnt a strong counter argument. Why are you in a discussion thread if you're just going to say 'no' instead of replying to the points? Just dont bother replying. Saves us both time.

I replied to your points in my first reply to you and you went on a bit of a rant. Is your idea of a discussion to have everyone agree with you?

 

[3rdManUp]

You're a quick learner. You'll do well. Polls don't do well on the main board.

Btw, big footy sucks. Everyone on here is a campaigner.

This is the most truth I have ever seen posted on BF

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

By a long long long margin.

Just checking.

 

[3rdManUp]

Of course everyone wants flags, but Gary Ablett Snr has less flags than Steven Armstrong, Tony Lockett has less flags than Ashley Hansen etc etc.

In a comparison of players using flags won is folly.

I wasn't using the flag to compare players. Read it again bud, I said it's Nick and not even close.
If you had to choose careers though, whose would you rather have?

 

[TiggerMan22]

Fairly sure Juddernaut isn't claiming he is junk time Jack now when he's won these Colemans...



I replied to your points in my first reply to you and you went on a bit of a rant. Is your idea of a discussion to have everyone agree with you?

No you didnt. You mentioned nothing about why Nick was better, you just gave your personal opinion that stats and flags dont matter for individual players, which is ridiculous.
You dont think those things are mentioned and used to compare players all the time? So you cant just say "Na doesnt matter", because it does.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Nick by a country mile.

 

[Plugger35]

This is like asking who is better out of Michael Voss and Brett Voss.

 

[Forward Press]

I wasn't using the flag to compare players. Read it again bud, I said it's Nick and not even close.
If you had to choose careers though, whose would you rather have?

I'd rather Nick's career, personally. Don't think St Kilda's lack of premiership success affects how we perceive Roo in any way.

No you didnt. You mentioned nothing about why Nick was better, you just gave your personal opinion that stats and flags dont matter for individual players, which is ridiculous.
You dont think those things are mentioned and used to compare players all the time? So you cant just say "Na doesnt matter", because it does.

I used examples to show why your stats have weaknesses. Just using goals and flags to compare players is but one small part of an individual comparison. You need to have actually watched both Jack and Nick extensively. And for the record, I think Jack is often underrated around here.

I assumed you've already seen Nick at his peak but if you want, I can say that in comparison to Jack, he is superior in terms of (imo):
- Endurance and gut running
- Ball winning ability
- Contested marking
- Better by foot
- Dragging 21 passengers over the line every second week

etc

The poll numbers reflect that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Love people that say that. Makes it nice and easy to see who watches games and who doesnt and instead just copies what shit sayings they see in facebook comment sections.

A bit like Tiger fans all on the Kardinia 'Cheat' Park bandwagon?

 

[Forward Press]

Geoff is the best Ablett

Luke > Geoff > Nathan >>>>>>>>>> Gary x 2

 

[Chuckie357]

As I said in the other thread it's closer than most think and Jack is closing.

By the end of his career he will most likely be similar goals kicked and games played.
Will also have 2 Coleman's and a flag, which Nick had neither of.

Jack's also a great leader (Nick was one of the all time best tho), hes a better on the ground player and better at tackling/applying pressure.
Nick's way better in the air, contested mark and around the ground tall.

Jack is not a great leader, great leaders don’t make it all about themselves. That’s all tnag matters to jack is his image

 

[TiggerMan22]

A bit like Tiger fans all on the Kardinia 'Cheat' Park bandwagon?

1. I have no idea what that means.
2. I never said that, so how is that relevant to me?

 

[Captain_Bender]

Luke > Geoff > Nathan >>>>>>>>>> Gary x 2

Len > All

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Lol who the **** voted Jack?

 

[TiggerMan22]

Jack is not a great leader, great leaders don’t make it all about themselves. That’s all tnag matters to jack is his image

I mean hes a vice captain of a premiership team.

But seriously if you actually think that then thats sad. You should actually watch Richmond sometime.
Jack is a brilliant teammate and IS a great leader. Hes a big reason why last we won a flag even tho coming into the year we had Butler (0 games played), Castagna (5 games), Rioli (18 games), Caddy (first year at the club), Townsend (first time playing a forward line role) making up up our forward line.

Outside of Jack we had a 2nd year player with 18 games of experience that had been part of our forward line the longest. If you dont have a good leader directing and helping, that forward line would not be able to function, let alone win a flag.

 

[3rdManUp]

I'd rather Nick's career, personally. Don't think St Kilda's lack of premiership success affects how we perceive Roo in any way.

Interesting call. Nearly every player would say they would take the flag but I think they are telling fibs. Given a choice between
a) being a game great with a brownlow or something but no flags, or
b) some average trier who won a premiership,
I think deep down most would actually be like you and would rather have the individual stand out career

 

[TiggerMan22]

I'd rather Nick's career, personally. Don't think St Kilda's lack of premiership success affects how we perceive Roo in any way.



I used examples to show why your stats have weaknesses. Just using goals and flags to compare players is but one small part of an individual comparison. You need to have actually watched both Jack and Nick extensively. And for the record, I think Jack is often underrated around here.

I assumed you've already seen Nick at his peak but if you want, I can say that in comparison to Jack, he is superior in terms of (imo):
- Endurance and gut running
- Ball winning ability
- Contested marking
- Better by foot
- Dragging 21 passengers over the line every second week

etc

The poll numbers reflect that.

And IM the ones thats biased? You play for flags.

I wasnt JUST using those things, they where part of the argument as they always are when comparing players.
What would you rather compare player on? Personal opinion? Yeh that will work well. Stats, individual awards and premierships are the standard things to use when comparing them. Weird you only had a problem with the things that favored Jack.

Wow great list. Did your read my comment? I swear I mentioned he was better around the ground and a better contested mark. Also a better leader which you missed for some reason. So thats 4 of your 5 points covered.
Which leaves dragging 21 players across the line? Huh? He never played on a good team did he? Never had any help? Riiiiiight. That ones bs.


The poll numbers reflect that? Seriously did you read my comment at all? I very specifically mentioned that Nick is better, what I said is WHEN Jacks career is ended it could very well be close. You failed to respond to that at all, by looking at your comment you would think I said Jack is better and mentioned 0 things Nick was superior at.

 

[TiggyTig]

Nick by the length of the Flemington straight. Just look at how the Saints have receded this year after he retired.

Yeah and look at what they achieved whilst he was there..

 

[blaisee]

No offence to Nick, but I am not sure how he got such an incredible reputation as a footballer when as a KP forward he just could not kick for goal properly.

I know I am biased but Jack was a better goal kicker, smarter footballer, and better skilled all round. Nick was for sure a better athlete

 

[Chuckie357]

I mean hes a vice captain of a premiership team.

But seriously if you actually think that then thats sad. You should actually watch Richmond sometime.
Jack is a brilliant teammate and IS a great leader. Hes a big reason why last we won a flag even tho coming into the year we had Butler (0 games played), Castagna (5 games), Rioli (18 games), Caddy (first year at the club), Townsend (first time playing a forward line role) making up up our forward line.

Outside of Jack we had a 2nd year player with 18 games of experience that had been part of our forward line the longest. If you dont have a good leader directing and helping, that forward line would not be able to function, let alone win a flag.

You won the flag because the crows didn’t turn up. How many other so called leaders need to get up on stage and ruin a concert performance because they love themselves? Has to be the center of attention all the time

 

[KingNothing]

Nick one of the all time best for his position. Nothing but respect for him.

Would never trade him for Jack in hindsight though. As good as Nick was he wouldn't have been the difference between our mediocrity and a flag, and Jacks contribution to our flag was based around things that he's better than Nick at.

 

[eaglespremiers]

- 232 games, 554 goals, 41 brownlow votes and counting
If he plays to 34 like Nick, and plays 22 games (doesnt take into account possible injuries or finals) he will finish on 334 games.
At his current career average of 2.4 goals a game, he would finish on 800 goals.
With a probable decline towards the end of his career he would most likely be VERY close to Nicks 718 and very possible to go above it.
Brownlow votes he will get no where close.

- 8x leading Richmond goal kicker (and counting)
- 2x Coleman medals
- 1x premiership player (And if he gets more that gives him a real edge on Nick)
- 2x AA
- 1X Best and fairest
- Vice captain in a premiership season

Half of that list is pretty useless. Most goals and games played at a certain stadium? Nice trivia but not worth anything more.
Ditto most marks in a season and international football selections.

So what happens if Jack finished with more games, more goals, 2v0 colemans and snags another flag or 2?
I would say it would be a legit discussion then.

It's rather unfortunate that people use premierships as a comparison between players.
Team success has limited bearing on a players ultimate standing as a player.
Of course, I'm sure Martin Pike disagrees with my assessment.

 

[Plugger35]

No offence to Nick, but I am not sure how he got such an incredible reputation as a footballer when as a KP forward he just could not kick for goal properly.

I know I am biased but Jack was a better goal kicker, smarter footballer, and better skilled all round. Nick was for sure a better athlete

Jack is a full forward so kicking goals is a more important part of his game than a CHF like Nick whose role is to help set up play as well as kick goals.

Nick could still have a big impact on a game even without kicking goals, for a full forward like Jack he needs to kick at least 2 or 3 goals to have an impact.