The Scarlet Letter - Beth Barnard and Vivienne Cameron

[Kyptastic]

Have been very interested in this case since Casefile covered it a couple of years back. A mysterious death of a popular young woman in a small community, a missing mother and the man stuck between them. Still yet to hear a convincing theory about how the events of this case played out, there's so much contradictory evidence out there. A new podcast from the author of a book on the murder is out now presented by Casefile. Just finished listening to it, it sort of dances around who may have committed the crime if it wasn't Vivienne who killed Beth.

Welcome – The Vanishing of Vivienne Cameron – by Casefile Presents

phillipislandpodcast.com

Twist in cold case Phillip Island murder

Inside the house on Phillip Island, just off Australia’s southern coast, was the body of a 23-year-old girl who had been brutally murdered and left in the most shocking of crime scenes.

www.news.com.au

 

[Kurve]

This new pod is excellent. I'm binging right now.

 

[Bits]

Asks lots of questions but no real theories offered. The only one in the triangle who is still around is Fergus. And if he knows anything, he’s not telling.

 

[Kyptastic]

Asks lots of questions but no real theories offered. The only one in the triangle who is still around is Fergus. And if he knows anything, he’s not telling.

I got the feeling that Fergus and his family may be pretty litigious. Probably playing it safe.

Not sure it fits all the evidence, but Fergus killing Vivienne due to an argument after the hospital and then framing Beth's death as being done by Vivienne could be a possibility. Requires his family to stick with him with their stories as well.

 

[Bits]

I got the feeling that Fergus and his family may be pretty litigious. Probably playing it safe.

Not sure it fits all the evidence, but Fergus killing Vivienne due to an argument after the hospital and then framing Beth's death as being done by Vivienne could be a possibility. Requires his family to stick with him with their stories as well.

Other than the phone call about the patchwork thing to her friend the next morning, there is no evidence that Vivienne was alive the day after the murder.

She left hospital with Fergus with no apparent injuries yet her blood (or to be picky blood from someone with the same blood type) was present - so where/when/how did that happen? Surely someone asked Fergus about it. I think there is a lot of info that hasn’t been made public.

It’s a tight knit, old-money family. I think they’d close ranks to protect one of their own.

What timeline would there be if Fergus killed them both? Did he kill Vivienne after the hospital visit, then go and kill Beth? Why would he kill Beth? Or did Vivienne snap, kill Beth, then go home to tell Fergus what she’d done and he killed her then?

We know that Vivienne is capable of violence, despite her friends all saying she was a lovely person and very kind and gentle. She managed to stab/slash Fergus with a wineglass several times after all. I wish her friends had been asked how they reconcile that attack with their repeated assertions that she wasn’t capable of killing Beth. Once you accept that she stabbed Fergus, that takes all her good character references off the table doesn’t it?.

 

[Kyptastic]

Other than the phone call about the patchwork thing to her friend the next morning, there is no evidence that Vivienne was alive the day after the murder.

She left hospital with Fergus with no apparent injuries yet her blood (or to be picky blood from someone with the same blood type) was present - so where/when/how did that happen? Surely someone asked Fergus about it. I think there is a lot of info that hasn’t been made public.

It’s a tight knit, old-money family. I think they’d close ranks to protect one of their own.

What timeline would there be if Fergus killed them both? Did he kill Vivienne after the hospital visit, then go and kill Beth? Why would he kill Beth? Or did Vivienne snap, kill Beth, then go home to tell Fergus what she’d done and he killed her then?

We know that Vivienne is capable of violence, despite her friends all saying she was a lovely person and very kind and gentle. She managed to stab/slash Fergus with a wineglass several times after all. I wish her friends had been asked how they reconcile that attack with their repeated assertions that she wasn’t capable of killing Beth. Once you accept that she stabbed Fergus, that takes all her good character references off the table doesn’t it?.

There's a big step up from smashing a glass on someone's head to murdering and mutilating a body. All the accounts of Vivienne being violent come from Fergus (such as him coming home late, getting into bed and Vivienne punching him). The words that he said Vivienne said at his last meeting (about her not being a good mother, how good a father Fergus was etc.), sound like the sort of things a lot of partner killers say when their wife 'disappears' - it comes off as very disingenuous.

The patchwork thing is so out there that I'm sure it's an error. The car by the bridge was spotted before the call was made, I don't see Vivienne being alive by dawn on the day of Beth's murder.

I think once Vivienne was dead, Fergus realised he would need some cover story for why she had vanished. Vivienne going into a murderous rage, 'killing' Beth and then committing suicide takes a lot of the pressure off him. The semen being found on Beth could also help explain why Beth was murdered in bed. Fergus coming over at night, after having killed Vivienne, leading to them having sex, Beth falling asleep and then Fergus killing her would explain a fair bit of that as well. The murder happens before DNA was widespread, so Fergus probably doesn't think it can be traced back to him at the time.

There's probably a lot of holes in this theory as well. I'm not satisfied by it, there's still too many unanswered questions.

 

[Bits]

There's a big step up from smashing a glass on someone's head to murdering and mutilating a body. All the accounts of Vivienne being violent come from Fergus (such as him coming home late, getting into bed and Vivienne punching him). The words that he said Vivienne said at his last meeting (about her not being a good mother, how good a father Fergus was etc.), sound like the sort of things a lot of partner killers say when their wife 'disappears' - it comes off as very disingenuous.

The patchwork thing is so out there that I'm sure it's an error. The car by the bridge was spotted before the call was made, I don't see Vivienne being alive by dawn on the day of Beth's murder.

I think once Vivienne was dead, Fergus realised he would need some cover story for why she had vanished. Vivienne going into a murderous rage, 'killing' Beth and then committing suicide takes a lot of the pressure off him. The semen being found on Beth could also help explain why Beth was murdered in bed. Fergus coming over at night, after having killed Vivienne, leading to them having sex, Beth falling asleep and then Fergus killing her would explain a fair bit of that as well. The murder happens before DNA was widespread, so Fergus probably doesn't think it can be traced back to him at the time.

There's probably a lot of holes in this theory as well. I'm not satisfied by it, there's still too many unanswered questions.

Fergus did report much of the violence, so it may not have happened, but the wine glass incident is documented at the hospital. I thought she smashed it on his head then stabbed him with the broken stem. Agreed not a mutilation like with Beth but still requires a degree of violence well above how her friends portray her.

Either way, two women died and Fergus went on his way with no repercussions.

 

[Kurve]

Fergus did report much of the violence, so it may not have happened, but the wine glass incident is documented at the hospital. I thought she smashed it on his head then stabbed him with the broken stem. Agreed not a mutilation like with Beth but still requires a degree of violence well above how her friends portray her.

Either way, two women died and Fergus went on his way with no repercussions.

You can smash something in temper but to keep hanging onto that glass after it's been broken as a weapon with jagged edges and using it to repeatedly jab it into someone's back is incredibly vicious.

I think she had it in her to kill Beth but Fergus might have also had it in him to get rid of Vivienne and make it look like she jumped from the bridge.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Finally got around to binging the podcast... a case that’s long fascinated me. I’ve spent a hell of a lot of time at Phillip Island so it got me in a long time ago.

There wasn’t a lot of new info. One thing I’d forgotten was the sighting of the motorbike with its lights off on Phillip Island Rd - the only route from the bridge to the Cameron’s place - at around 5am in the morning.

It’s said there was a farm bike seen before on the back of the LandCruiser, so the inference is clearly that somebody drove the truck there with the bike on the back, left the truck and rode back.

For me there’s two crucial bits of hard evidence

- Vivienne’s blood at Beth’s house

- Beth’s blood on the paper at the Cameron’s house

To me that says that Vivienne went to Beth’s house and returned home with Beth’s blood.

The other thing I’m quite firm on is Vivienne did NOT jump from the bridge.

One of the first things the local detective did was examine the barrier the length of the bridge (on both sides)... he found no disturbance of the salt crust that forms on the rail where somebody would have straddled it.

They never found any trace of Vivienne or anything - clothing, whatever - in the water. Police dives are incredibly thorough, they examine every inch of the sea bed. And to find absolutely nothing?

There was no obvious trace of Vivienne in the truck - no blood, no fibres from her clothing, nothing.

She left her cigarettes in the truck. For a heavy smoker?

The sighting of the suspicious motorbike.

It’s not an obvious place to kill yourself. Now I appreciate suicidal people are probably not in a logical frame of mind, but... it’s just not that high. Nothing like the cliffs on the south side of the island that the Cameron property were on.



Unless you made some proper effort - and succeeded - in landing directly on your face or something, you would not be unconscious when you hit the water. Then what? Lie back and hope to be washed out to sea? Hope a hungry shark comes along?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Anyway my theory. I’m not sure it fits in totally with time lines, though I thinks it’s possible. The biggest weakness is it probably relies on the two Cameron couples and and Cairns colluding, which is unlikely. But possible.

1. Vivienne went to Beth’s house and killed her.

2. She returned home to tell Fergus what she’d done, and also attacked him with a knife. This is where Fergus was injured. He overpowered her, and calmed her down. He vowed to help her get out of this situation. This is when they went to the hospital and seemed quiet but united.

3. They came to the obvious conclusion that Vivienne either had to hand herself in or flee. They decided on fleeing and came up with a way to get her off the island, and stage her suicide.

4. Donald and Ian are dispatched to “discover the body”. Fergus couldn’t go lest he be suspected of the killing.

5. At some point overnight or early morning, the reality of leaving her family forever hit Vivienne and she got cold feet, convincing herself she’d simply deny any involvement and be ok. She heads to the community house in the morning as a display of normality. It’s here she made the infamous phone call, and also the note in the community house diary that her co-worker saw.

6. They found Beth at the community house - these were the other voices heard on the phone. They made her see sense urgently - the police had been called and were closing in, her suicide had been staged. She agreed to flee... they somehow got her off the island immediately, or hid her on the property and got her out later.

From there, who knows what happened to her. Overseas possibly, or committed suicide elsewhere later.

That’s just about the only way I can see it playing out that fits with the available evidence. There is genuinely no real evidence that she jumped from the bridge.

 

[Kurve]

.

Anyway my theory. I’m not sure it fits in totally with time lines, though I thinks it’s possible. The biggest weakness is it probably relies on the two Cameron couples and and Cairns colluding, which is unlikely. But possible.

1. Vivienne went to Beth’s house and killed her.

2. She returned home to tell Fergus what she’d done, and also attacked him with a knife. This is where Fergus was injured. He overpowered her, and calmed her down. He vowed to help her get out of this situation. This is when they went to the hospital and seemed quiet but united.

3. They came to the obvious conclusion that Vivienne either had to hand herself in or flee. They decided on fleeing and came up with a way to get her off the island, and stage her suicide.

4. Donald and Ian are dispatched to “discover the body”. Fergus couldn’t go lest he be suspected of the killing.

5. At some point overnight or early morning, the reality of leaving her family forever hit Vivienne and she got cold feet, convincing herself she’d simply deny any involvement and be ok. She heads to the community house in the morning as a display of normality. It’s here she made the infamous phone call, and also the note in the community house diary that her co-worker saw.

6. They found Beth at the community house - these were the other voices heard on the phone. They made her see sense urgently - the police had been called and were closing in, her suicide had been staged. She agreed to flee... they somehow got her off the island immediately, or hid her on the property and got her out later.

From there, who knows what happened to her. Overseas possibly, or committed suicide elsewhere later.

That’s just about the only way I can see it playing out that fits with the available evidence. There is genuinely no real evidence that she jumped from the bridge.

That makes really good sense, it seemed that one or two of the witnesses were mistaken in regards the phone call Beth made and being at the community house but I kept swinging back to wanting to believe them. Because I don't think they made it up, they got it right.

She didn't jump from that bridge imo. The bike rider in a rush, leaving bales of hay skew whiff all over the back tray of her vehicle left it there to make it look like she did. I imagine eyebrows were raised all over the island when they heard that was supposed to be the story.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

.


That makes really good sense, it seemed that one or two of the witnesses were mistaken in regards the phone call Beth made and being at the community house but I kept swinging back to wanting to believe them. Because I don't think they made it up, they got it right.

She didn't jump from that bridge imo. The bike rider in a rush, leaving bales of hay skew whiff all over the back tray of her vehicle left it there to make it look like she did. I imagine eyebrows were raised all over the island when they heard that was supposed to be the story.

From what I’ve seen regarding people on the island - who were there at the time - I’d say few believe the official story. Though I also think Fergus, and more widely the rest of the Camerons, aren’t viewed with as much suspicion as they are by outsiders who look at the case.

We get our info on the case from the book, podcast, news etc... and the Camerons, particularly Fergus, are somewhat portrayed as dark figures... rich, powerful, perhaps secretive, scheming types. From what I’ve been told, prior to it all happening Fergus and the rest of the Camerons were well known on the island, but also well liked. They were social, friendly, community-minded people.

Fergus is generally portrayed as very suspicious. Really that’s fair enough, as I totally believe that if there’s one remaining person who knows exactly what happened, it’s him.

And the fact he was doing the dirty on his wife makes him even more a target. But as for actually being suspected of the murder? I’m not sure police or anybody on the island ever really thought that.

Mind you, nobody would have thought it of Vivienne, either. And I think the available evidence points to her having done it.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

They never found any trace of Vivienne or anything - clothing, whatever - in the water. Police dives are incredibly thorough, they examine every inch of the sea bed. And to find absolutely nothing?

Unless you made some proper effort - and succeeded - in landing directly on your face or something, you would not be unconscious when you hit the water. Then what? Lie back and hope to be washed out to sea? Hope a hungry shark comes along?

Notwithstanding everything else you've posted, on the above bit that I've singled out, have you ever been to the island and crossed the bridge when the tide is changing and had a look at the water? There's a massive current runs through there multiple times per day.

 

[X_box_X]

Fascinating case. Despite having spent a lot of time at Phillip Island, I'd never heard about this case until a few weeks ago when I listened to the Podcast referenced in this thread.

Like others, I feel there is next to zero chance Vivienne jumped from the San Remo bridge. How the Coroner could make that ruling baffles me.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Notwithstanding everything else you've posted, on the above bit that I've singled out, have you ever been to the island and crossed the bridge when the tide is changing and had a look at the water? There's a massive current runs through there multiple times per day.

Yep.. were the tide on the way out, it’s conceivable she could be carried out to sea and vanish without a trace. I have no idea where you’d get a tide table for 1986, though it would exist somewhere.

I still find the prospect of absolutely nothing being found difficult, though it is possible.

 

[Kurve]

Yep.. were the tide on the way out, it’s conceivable she could be carried out to sea and vanish without a trace. I have no idea where you’d get a tide table for 1986, though it would exist somewhere.

I still find the prospect of absolutely nothing being found difficult, though it is possible.

Met might be able to help us out with tides and tell us exactly where she should have ended up, if willing and he has time. He's our man for this.

Are you about metic ?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Yep.. were the tide on the way out, it’s conceivable she could be carried out to sea and vanish without a trace. I have no idea where you’d get a tide table for 1986, though it would exist somewhere.

I still find the prospect of absolutely nothing being found difficult, though it is possible.

Almost 7 years ago, MH370 disappeared and tide experts couldn't work that out as far as finding debris goes. Alleged debris did wash up on islands but I don't think where the experts were expecting it.

2014 is a lot more recent than 1986 with a lot more tools available to them.

 

[Kurve]

Looks kinda sharky to me, not big sharky though and the water doesn't look real deep. It would be interesting to know what the tides were doing when it's suggested she jumped, bearing in mind search parties were out within hours and even if she was being swept out to open sea it's not a straight run.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Looks kinda sharky to me, not big sharky though and the water doesn't look real deep. It would be interesting to know what the tides were doing when it's suggested she jumped, bearing in mind search parties were out within hours and even if she was being swept out to open sea it's not a straight run.

There are sharks present, though they tend to be far more common at the the western end of the island where the seals congregate.

If there was an outgoing tide at the time she is alleged to have jumped, there’d need to be some sort of test run to see which way it would take a body. There is the San Remo Pier immediately to your left (looking south), which is where recreational jumpers swim to. There’s beaches on both the island and Sam Remo sides, then Cape Woolamai which juts right out directly south. From there it’s out to Bass Strait.

At the bridge the channel is only ~500m wide (there’s a swimming event across it every year, the Channel Challenge). Then it widens from there.

 

[Kurve]

Yeah I know Sensing Murder psychic pooh pooh but the homicide detective who led the investigation is in here and the first officer on the scene, there's interviews with the locals as well and sometimes you can pick up some interesting footage of the surrounds.

 

[Kurve]

High tide was at 4.01am, around the time it's suggested Vivienne jumped.

 

[X_box_X]

Next week's episode of Under Investigation is covering this case