Current Trial The Teachers Pet Podcast & Chris Dawson's Murder Trial * New Carnal Knowledge Trial

[checkraiseulite]

listener to this over the last few days. it’s well done but certainly lacks objectivity and is proceeding on the basis that he is guilty.

a prime example of this is being critical of the brothers saying “wish they had interviewed us 17 years ago while the details were fresh in our memories”.

seems like the police have botched this up and think a judge sitting alone is going to think he did it (seems a strong circumstantial case) but acquit on the basis the prosecution haven’t proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

i haven’t listened to the earlier podcast, but it’s interesting to observe the effect that has obviously had on the decision to move forward with a trial.

 

[BFew]

seems like the police have botched this up

More evidence of this line of thinking in court today.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/live-chris-dawson-murder-trial-question-over-key-witness-appearance-as-trial-resumes/live-coverage/bf2bebf3b32d03805c75ef5dee2ed50e

'JUNE 15, 2022'

2 HOURS AGO

'Unusual' homicide squad wasn't called in: former cop​

DAVID MURRAY
A retired detective has agreed with the defence that it was unusual for a local police station to be investigating Lyn Dawson’s suspicious disappearance rather than the homicide squad.
John Pendergast was working at Dee Why station in the late 1990s when he helped colleague Damian Loone investigate what happened to Lyn when she vanished in 1982.
Mr Pendergast said he started assisting because Loone, then a senior constable, was the only detective allocated the case.
“In my view, that was totally inadequate,” he said.
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t understand why there hadn’t been an investigation at Mona Vale station back in 1982 when Lyn went missing.
“That caught my interest,” he said.
Detective Loone’s involvement in the investigation “was only part-time as was mine”, he said.
They had other matters to deal with as well as Lyn’s case.
Defence counsel Pauline David suggested Mr Pendergast knew Chris Dawson’s former babysitter and second wife, JC.
“I knew her by sight,” he said.
He thought his child and JC’s child attended the same primary school, but they had never previously spoken.
Ms David asked if he was aware that the Dee Why crime manager, Paul Hulme, was friends with a woman named Sue Strath.
The trial has previously been told Ms Strath, a friend of Lyn Dawson, made a complaint to the ombudsman in the 1980s about the failure of police to investigate her disappearance.'
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t remember being aware of the friendship, and wasn’t told by Hulme about the complaint to the ombudsman.
He was repeatedly asked by Ms David about another police officer, Superintendent Parrington.
Ms David suggested JC and her father had approached Superintendent Parrington first – and that Parrington was a good friend of JC’s father.
Mr Pendergast said he did not speak to Parrington and wasn’t sure who he was.
He agreed it was important for police to remain impartial and be objective, but added that there were safeguards in place to prevent people from being charged without evidence.

'39 MINUTES AGO
Lynette Dawson's family 'dudded' by police
DAVID MURRAY
Missing mother Lynette Dawson’s family was “dudded” by police, says a retired detective who worked on the case.
John Pendergast assisted in investigating Lyn’s disappearance as a detective at Dee Why station in the late 1990s.
He decided to help his colleague, detective Damian Loone, then a senior constable, who had been the sole officer assigned the case at the time.
Mr Pendergast has said he was surprised there had not been investigations at the separate Mona Vale police station in the 1980s when he was working there.
Lyn’s family had gone through the pain and anguish of losing a daughter, he said.
“On top of that, in my view they’d been dudded by the police,” he said.'

 

[Angry Red Bull]

What a let-down.

Here we were (based on media beat-ups) expecting some bombshell new witness(s) that could make or break the case.

Former detective denies he had agenda to prove Chris Dawson murdered his wife

A former police officer tells the murder trial of Chris Dawson he did not deliberately discard evidence from people he interviewed about possible sightings of Lynette Dawson after she went missing.

www.abc.net.au

'Posted 53m ago'

'Prosecutor Craig Everson today told the Supreme Court up to five new witnesses have come forward since the high-profile trial commenced just over a month ago, including one who has phoned crime stoppers.

Mr Everson said police are still taking a statement from the crime stoppers caller.

But the prosecutor said at this stage it seemed the evidence from the new witnesses was not crucial to the case.'

'In disallowing the new evidence, Justice Ian Harrison said a "line has to be drawn", given how late it had emerged during the proceedings.
"My inclination is to not permit the Crown to call this evidence," he said.'

That's a bit unfair.....they've only had 40 years to gather the evidence.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

More evidence of this line of thinking in court today.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/live-chris-dawson-murder-trial-question-over-key-witness-appearance-as-trial-resumes/live-coverage/bf2bebf3b32d03805c75ef5dee2ed50e

'JUNE 15, 2022'

2 HOURS AGO

'Unusual' homicide squad wasn't called in: former cop​

DAVID MURRAY
A retired detective has agreed with the defence that it was unusual for a local police station to be investigating Lyn Dawson’s suspicious disappearance rather than the homicide squad.
John Pendergast was working at Dee Why station in the late 1990s when he helped colleague Damian Loone investigate what happened to Lyn when she vanished in 1982.
Mr Pendergast said he started assisting because Loone, then a senior constable, was the only detective allocated the case.
“In my view, that was totally inadequate,” he said.
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t understand why there hadn’t been an investigation at Mona Vale station back in 1982 when Lyn went missing.
“That caught my interest,” he said.
Detective Loone’s involvement in the investigation “was only part-time as was mine”, he said.
They had other matters to deal with as well as Lyn’s case.
Defence counsel Pauline David suggested Mr Pendergast knew Chris Dawson’s former babysitter and second wife, JC.
“I knew her by sight,” he said.
He thought his child and JC’s child attended the same primary school, but they had never previously spoken.
Ms David asked if he was aware that the Dee Why crime manager, Paul Hulme, was friends with a woman named Sue Strath.
The trial has previously been told Ms Strath, a friend of Lyn Dawson, made a complaint to the ombudsman in the 1980s about the failure of police to investigate her disappearance.'
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t remember being aware of the friendship, and wasn’t told by Hulme about the complaint to the ombudsman.
He was repeatedly asked by Ms David about another police officer, Superintendent Parrington.
Ms David suggested JC and her father had approached Superintendent Parrington first – and that Parrington was a good friend of JC’s father.
Mr Pendergast said he did not speak to Parrington and wasn’t sure who he was.
He agreed it was important for police to remain impartial and be objective, but added that there were safeguards in place to prevent people from being charged without evidence.

'39 MINUTES AGO
Lynette Dawson's family 'dudded' by police
DAVID MURRAY
Missing mother Lynette Dawson’s family was “dudded” by police, says a retired detective who worked on the case.
John Pendergast assisted in investigating Lyn’s disappearance as a detective at Dee Why station in the late 1990s.
He decided to help his colleague, detective Damian Loone, then a senior constable, who had been the sole officer assigned the case at the time.
Mr Pendergast has said he was surprised there had not been investigations at the separate Mona Vale police station in the 1980s when he was working there.
Lyn’s family had gone through the pain and anguish of losing a daughter, he said.
“On top of that, in my view they’d been dudded by the police,” he said.'

The whole case has been mismanaged. Even now there are gaps in evidence that should have been collected. Phone records. Financial records. Things should have been done on timely basis. And on the back of that is HT and his 'egregious' podcasts. This is not how justice should work......for LD or CD.

 

[FTY1]

I have a question and/or want to raise an issue? On the morning CD took LD to the bus stop he says that he dropped her there and then went home to have breakfast with his daughters. Were they left alone at home without any parent at the age of 3 and 4? Seriously?

With the live in baby sitter away I would assume that they were asleep still and he didn't want to get them up. I would expect based on the statements made that he left them at home. Wouldn't be the first parent in the world to duck out for 10 minutes with a locked house.

He did bring them to the Northbridge Baths as well. Can't be good for toddlers to be in a place around water when their parent is working. Maybe Lyn's shopping trip wasn't planned.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

With the live in baby sitter away I would assume that they were asleep still and he didn't want to get them up. I would expect based on the statements made that he left them at home. Wouldn't be the first parent in the world to duck out for 10 minutes with a locked house.

He did bring them to the Northbridge Baths as well. Can't be good for toddlers to be in a place around water when their parent is working. Maybe Lyn's shopping trip wasn't planned.

26 min round trip. I checked it.

I think the kids were with inlaws at pool who were supposed to meet LD for lunch

 

[FTY1]

listener to this over the last few days. it’s well done but certainly lacks objectivity and is proceeding on the basis that he is guilty.
1982
a prime example of this is being critical of the brothers saying “wish they had interviewed us 17 years ago while the details were fresh in our memories”.

seems like the police have botched this up and think a judge sitting alone is going to think he did it (seems a strong circumstantial case) but acquit on the basis the prosecution haven’t proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

i haven’t listened to the earlier podcast, but it’s interesting to observe the effect that has obviously had on the decision to move forward with a trial.

With a day of court information, the newspapers are only giving an article of details so we are getting a brief summary of what the evidence is in the courts.

Yes this a case based on circumstantial evidence but there has been 2 inquests before this with the first one with no witnesses and the 2nd one with 20 witnesses. There has been documents provided to the courts that were available at the time of the podcasts which have been included with evidence played before the courts such as Chris and Paul Dawson's initial interview and antecedent report which are not available now. There are some recordings of Chris Dawson's interview online now but it only relates to a few questions.

In 1980s and before the times were different as far as a man reporting his wife missing. Around that time, there was not much investigation done if you said I dropped my wife at a bus stop and she left of her own free will. As a married person I think the spouse has to report their partner missing.
Other cases which I would see as similar are

Sally Greenham WA

MISSING (SUSPICIOUS) - SALLY BEATRIX GREENHAM – BOOTENHAL WA • Crime Stoppers Western Australia

DESCRIPTION:

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

Some sites reported her as being last seen at a bus stop in St Georges Terrace in Perth as reported by her husband.

Roxlyn Bowie NSW

Death of Roxlyn Bowie - NSW Police Public Site

www.police.nsw.gov.au

John Bowie charged with murder of wife Roxlyn Bowie after her disappearance 37 years ago

NSW Police have extradited John Bowie to Sydney to face court over the murder of his wife Roxlyn, after an investigation into her disappearance in 1982.

www.abc.net.au

Her parents were a bit too trusting of the information coming from Chris. There was only one person that kept pushing the Lyn's case be investigated and that was her co-worker and friend Sue Strath. No one would ever consider at the time that a charming footballer would ever do anything wrong. In the 2020s we are less confident.

 

[FTY1]

26 min round trip. I checked it.

I think the kids were with inlaws at pool who were supposed to meet LD for lunch

Helena Simms didn't arrive until 2pm. I heard Lyn was expected after midday. I don't know what time the Life saving duties started.

 

[FTY1]

More evidence of this line of thinking in court today.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/live-chris-dawson-murder-trial-question-over-key-witness-appearance-as-trial-resumes/live-coverage/bf2bebf3b32d03805c75ef5dee2ed50e

'JUNE 15, 2022'

2 HOURS AGO

'Unusual' homicide squad wasn't called in: former cop​

DAVID MURRAY
A retired detective has agreed with the defence that it was unusual for a local police station to be investigating Lyn Dawson’s suspicious disappearance rather than the homicide squad.
John Pendergast was working at Dee Why station in the late 1990s when he helped colleague Damian Loone investigate what happened to Lyn when she vanished in 1982.
Mr Pendergast said he started assisting because Loone, then a senior constable, was the only detective allocated the case.
“In my view, that was totally inadequate,” he said.
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t understand why there hadn’t been an investigation at Mona Vale station back in 1982 when Lyn went missing.
“That caught my interest,” he said.
Detective Loone’s involvement in the investigation “was only part-time as was mine”, he said.
They had other matters to deal with as well as Lyn’s case.
Defence counsel Pauline David suggested Mr Pendergast knew Chris Dawson’s former babysitter and second wife, JC.
“I knew her by sight,” he said.
He thought his child and JC’s child attended the same primary school, but they had never previously spoken.
Ms David asked if he was aware that the Dee Why crime manager, Paul Hulme, was friends with a woman named Sue Strath.
The trial has previously been told Ms Strath, a friend of Lyn Dawson, made a complaint to the ombudsman in the 1980s about the failure of police to investigate her disappearance.'
Mr Pendergast said he couldn’t remember being aware of the friendship, and wasn’t told by Hulme about the complaint to the ombudsman.
He was repeatedly asked by Ms David about another police officer, Superintendent Parrington.
Ms David suggested JC and her father had approached Superintendent Parrington first – and that Parrington was a good friend of JC’s father.
Mr Pendergast said he did not speak to Parrington and wasn’t sure who he was.
He agreed it was important for police to remain impartial and be objective, but added that there were safeguards in place to prevent people from being charged without evidence.

'39 MINUTES AGO
Lynette Dawson's family 'dudded' by police
DAVID MURRAY
Missing mother Lynette Dawson’s family was “dudded” by police, says a retired detective who worked on the case.
John Pendergast assisted in investigating Lyn’s disappearance as a detective at Dee Why station in the late 1990s.
He decided to help his colleague, detective Damian Loone, then a senior constable, who had been the sole officer assigned the case at the time.
Mr Pendergast has said he was surprised there had not been investigations at the separate Mona Vale police station in the 1980s when he was working there.
Lyn’s family had gone through the pain and anguish of losing a daughter, he said.
“On top of that, in my view they’d been dudded by the police,” he said.'

So the defence are trying to indicate that a 16 years overdue missing persons/cold case investigation started because of a friend of Lyn's requested it is a conflict of interest.... Oh Boy!

 

[Poppy Penny]

Hope the current witness RS‘ evidence will be the bombshell we have all been waiting for! Fingers crossed.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have concerns about testimony of Annette leary relating to what she saw on Lynn.

She testified that on the day of LD marriage counselling she had seen bruises on her neck. So the counselling session must have been during the day and they then both went back to work otherwise she wouldn't have had the chance to talk to her if it was after. She recites the words LD spoke about grabbing her throat and "if this doesn't work I'm getting rid of you".

Having played high level competitive sport for 30 years I know with certainty this about bruises. Very occasionally if you have extreme blunt force trauma a bleed may immediately appear as blood pools. It is red. After all that is what a bruise is, a bleed into soft tissue. Most bruises you will get a red mark from the impact and it will be the following day or day after the bluish bruise will arise. There is a process where iron rich hemaglobin breaks down which causes the colour changes and that process takes 1-3 days NOT hours or minutes. That also doesn't take account of a squeeze type injury such as a grip to throat. There is less blood release from that I would suggest than an impact injury. Entirely different sorts of injuries and time processes. I think the Leary evidence about bruises showing up the same day as the throat grab isn't possible. Certainly there may have been a red mark but no bruise. That chemical breakdown takes days not hours. She is embellishing or lying

Ms Cruise the centre manager saw no bruises. It was on her neck below her face. what ....she didn't look at her face all day? Of course she did There were no bruises

Ms Leary then goes on to say that she met CD and JC and kids a few months later and that he tells her LD sent him a letter. He disputes that and says there was no such letter.

Let us talk about the psychology of the issues around the testimony. CD had apparently agreed to have marriage counselling. You would expect that people committing to such a process would embark upon it with a sense of hope enthusiasm even even if sceptical or resistant. You wouldn't expect anyone to damage the process beforehand otherwise why go at all? Yet we are led to believe by AL that before going into the session PD grabs her by the throat and threatens her. He destroys the chance of success before the session. Perhaps he's an idiot or just can't control himself I could understand a controlling person refusing to go. I could even understand them arguing before deciding to go. Having made the decision TO GO it is entirely contrary to human nature that a person would permanently damage the chance of success by attacking your partner before the session. Indeed was he not concerned how she would then react in the session? Mmmmmm. then you have the problem about bruises. It is totally incongruent with human nature. Sorry but it is. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but I have concerns it didn't.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Robert Silkman played league with CD. He has given testimony that he was approached by CD on a plane returning from team holiday in Dec 75. At that stage CD and LD had been married 5 years and had no children. He wanted to know if he knew anyone who could help him get rid of LD.

I simply don't understand why? It was borderline long term marriage which usually occurs after 4-5 years and then requires a 50:50 split after divorce. So he didn't want to have a divorce settlement and that was a reason to kill his wife?

Silkman has a long criminal record.

 

[Kurve]

I have concerns about testimony of Annette leary relating to what she saw on Lynn.

She testified that on the day of LD marriage counselling she had seen bruises on her neck. So the counselling session must have been during the day and they then both went back to work otherwise she wouldn't have had the chance to talk to her if it was after. She recites the words LD spoke about grabbing her throat and "if this doesn't work I'm getting rid of you".

She saw bruises just before Lyn went missing.

Annette Leary, who worked with Ms Dawson at the Warriewood Children's Centre in the early 1980s, told the court she had noticed bruises on her colleague's throat just days before she disappeared.

• #328

 

[Angry Red Bull]

She saw bruises just before Lyn went missing.

Annette Leary, who worked with Ms Dawson at the Warriewood Children's Centre in the early 1980s, told the court she had noticed bruises on her colleague's throat just days before she disappeared.

• #328

Days before she went missing was referring to not coming in on the Monday. The sighting of bruises was the day they went to counselling which was the Friday. I can't seem to find the time of day but it must have been during the day. From what I read they went to counselling during the day, had the incident in the lift before the session and then when she went back to work AL noticed the bruise and asked her about it and was then told what was said. If it was a pre existing bruise it surely would have been described as such. They seemed to link the two

It would be nice to have a transcript instead of the podcast

I think the most likely scenario is that LD spoke to her work friend after the counselling and was told what happened in the lift. I think a false memory has created the bruise or changed it's colour from a red mark to a bruise.

This of course is part of the problem of a podcast series and a 40 year lapse. It can derail justice for either LD or CD

 

[Kurve]

Days before she went missing was referring to not coming in on the Monday. The sighting of bruises was the day they went to counselling which was the Friday.

Where's it confirmed that the counselling session was on that particular Friday and it was the same day the bruises were noticed? The only reference I can find to 'Friday' and a 'counselling session' is here and which refers to the day the court heard from this witness, it doesn't refer to the day the counselling session was or when.

The bail application in Central Local Court on Friday heard that Mr Dawson told his wife “If this doesn’t work, I’m going to get rid of you” at a marriage counselling session just prior to Lynette’s disappearance in 1982.

• #182

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Where's it confirmed that the counselling session was on that particular Friday and it was the same day the bruises were noticed? The only reference I can find to 'Friday' and a 'counselling session' is here and which refers to the day the court heard from this witness, it doesn't refer to the day the counselling session was or when.

The bail application in Central Local Court on Friday heard that Mr Dawson told his wife “If this doesn’t work, I’m going to get rid of you” at a marriage counselling session just prior to Lynette’s disappearance in 1982.

• #182

I fast forwarded the teachers trial podcast to her testimony. Also read all the articles on it. Still couldn't find a time of session. I had originally thought it was evening but then AL couldn't have spoken to LD. That's what made me check the testimony from her about seeing the bruise because I wanted to know the sequence of events leading up to the lift incident and the bruise she saw and comment LD had made in reference. The problem is also that Ms Cruise was the centre manager but didn't see any bruise at all. How can that be possible? It's on her neck or jawline .

Maturation of bruises occur over a 10-14 day period and there are 4 different colours during that span. The first is 1-2 days red mark only before the breakdown of hemaglobin

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Where's it confirmed that the counselling session was on that particular Friday and it was the same day the bruises were noticed? The only reference I can find to 'Friday' and a 'counselling session' is here and which refers to the day the court heard from this witness, it doesn't refer to the day the counselling session was or when.

The bail application in Central Local Court on Friday heard that Mr Dawson told his wife “If this doesn’t work, I’m going to get rid of you” at a marriage counselling session just prior to Lynette’s disappearance in 1982.

• #182

The comment actually occured in the lift going up to the counselling session which was the Friday before she went missing 8th Jan.

 

[Kurve]

The comment actually occured in the lift going up to the counselling session which was the Friday before she went missing 8th Jan.

Yes, I agree the incident was in the lift but can you point me to where it's confirmed that the counselling session was on the Friday before she failed to show for work on the Monday? I can't find it and I'm listening to the podcast.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Northern Beaches Review 23/05//22 " Lynn Dawson seen Bruised before disappearing" Miklos Bolza.

 

[Kurve]

Northern Beaches Review 23/05//22 " Lynn Dawson seen Bruised before disappearing" Miklos Bolza.

Ms David questioned evidence given by Ms Leary on Monday that Ms Dawson had been seen with bruises around her throat three days before her disappearance.
Ms Leary told the court she had actually seen Ms Dawson for the last time just before Christmas 1981 when the childcare centre closed for the holidays.

Court told of Dawson's poolside attack

Former teacher Chris Dawson attacked his wife beside the pool at their Sydney home and wrestled her in...

www.manningrivertimes.com.au

By Miklos Bolza

 

[Story]

My thoughts with AL's statement regarding the bruising on Lyn's throat:

There has been no mention (that I am aware of) about what colour the bruises were, and it could be possible that AL is calling the early red marks (of bruising) as bruises - especially if she is familiar with bruising and knows how they look when they start to appear. So it could just be a matter of definition. Was AL questioned about the colour of the bruising? She didn't say "Lyn had these awful black bruises on her throat," for example.

It is quite possible that AL, questioning Lyn about the bruising on her throat, caused Lyn to become aware that there were marks, and she decided to hide them. She wouldn't be the first person to go to the bathroom and get some concealer out of their handbag to cover a bruise as best they could to stop awkward looks and questions. If the bruising were a lighter colour this would account for Ms Cruise not noticing any marks.

If we assume that, as Angry Red Bull says, that people don't go onto the stand to purgure themselves, would it not be right to give AL the same assumption of not wittingly lying that is given to others....for example those people that think they have seen Lyn after she disappeared. We have not had anybody come forward to say that AL is known to lie, as we have heard about one of the people who says that she saw Lyn on the Central Coast. (I don't recall that person's name, but her husband and daughter said she would lie to get attention.) So to the best of my knowledge AL is not a known liar. Surely AL just wants justice for her old workfriend and wants the right person to go to gaol, not set up somebody that might be innocent.

I did have a bit of a problem with something AL said though. Under cross-examination she is asked how she knew the person (JC) with CD was a school girl. I have not heard the exact way things were said, or even read a transcript, but I got the impression the she was feeling the pressure and she said that it must have been because JC was wearing a school uniform - but she didn't seem confident and was searching for a reason to justify her statement IMO ..... so she was feeling harangued and just said something without a proper memory. I wonder, if she were asked in a calmer manner and situation, if she would have thought a bit more and remembered that she just had the impression that JC was a school girl because of her age; from the things that Lyn had said about 'the school girl babysitter'. I'm pretty sure that JC finished school in 1981??? As I say though, I believe AL was feeling stressed and just said somthting without really trying to remember. It actually doesn't worry me that much, but I worry if JC had left school by then, and the judge is made aware of this (and therefore wasn't wearing a uniform), then such a rushed comment could make a bad impression on the judge.

CD's defense team is trying to sow doubt in people's minds, and it looks like that for some this tactic may be working. Not for me though.

In regards to CD going to marriage counselling, I will share a little personal story. My ex would like to take relationship counselling for reasons that had nothing to do with making our relationship better. It was all part of his mind games and power trips. It absolutely never had anything to do with creating a healthy relationship. He would abuse me every moment before we walked in the door and I would say that he actually got off on fooling the counsellor, and have a professional fall for his gaslighting of me. The things he would say I had done were incredible and he actually had the ability to turn counselling into another form of abuse and control.....It seems quite plausible to me that CD could have gone to counselling for reasons that had nothing to do with staying with Lyn. It could have been more games, and a box to tick toward proving how hard he tried to stay in the relationship. He could have gone along with Lyn's idea to see the counsellor so that he could even say to JC (to try and win her back as they seemed to have been broken up at that point)...."Look J, it's over with Lyn, we've been to counselling and it's clear to me the marriage is over." Really, it could have been anything, but going to a relationship counsellor doesn't automatically mean that someone wants to save their marriage.

I have believed that the relationship counselling was on the same Friday that Lyn disappeared......was it from Helena's diary maybe? I have been a liitle less sure about the timing of things for a few days now, and this recent thread is adding to that.

 

[Story]

Ms David questioned evidence given by Ms Leary on Monday that Ms Dawson had been seen with bruises around her throat three days before her disappearance.
Ms Leary told the court she had actually seen Ms Dawson for the last time just before Christmas 1981 when the childcare centre closed for the holidays.

Court told of Dawson's poolside attack

Former teacher Chris Dawson attacked his wife beside the pool at their Sydney home and wrestled her in...

www.manningrivertimes.com.au

By Miklos Bolza

Nice find! That solves it.

 

[Kurve]

Maybe they had opened again after Christmas though and the counselling was after that.

Has anybody actually found the counsellor who might confirm exactly when their appointment/s were? I can't remember seeing that either.

 

[Story]

Has anybody actually found the counsellor who might confirm exactly when their appointment/s were? I can't remember seeing that either.

I deleted my comment (not fast enough) as it is clear that what I said isn't relevant because Ms Leary says that it was before Christmas that she last saw Lyn.

 

[FTY1]

I have concerns about testimony of Annette leary relating to what she saw on Lynn.

She testified that on the day of LD marriage counselling she had seen bruises on her neck. So the counselling session must have been during the day and they then both went back to work otherwise she wouldn't have had the chance to talk to her if it was after. She recites the words LD spoke about grabbing her throat and "if this doesn't work I'm getting rid of you".

Having played high level competitive sport for 30 years I know with certainty this about bruises. Very occasionally if you have extreme blunt force trauma a bleed may immediately appear as blood pools. It is red. After all that is what a bruise is, a bleed into soft tissue. Most bruises you will get a red mark from the impact and it will be the following day or day after the bluish bruise will arise. There is a process where iron rich hemaglobin breaks down which causes the colour changes and that process takes 1-3 days NOT hours or minutes. That also doesn't take account of a squeeze type injury such as a grip to throat. There is less blood release from that I would suggest than an impact injury. Entirely different sorts of injuries and time processes. I think the Leary evidence about bruises showing up the same day as the throat grab isn't possible. Certainly there may have been a red mark but no bruise. That chemical breakdown takes days not hours. She is embellishing or lying

Ms Cruise the centre manager saw no bruises. It was on her neck below her face. what ....she didn't look at her face all day? Of course she did There were no bruises

Ms Leary then goes on to say that she met CD and JC and kids a few months later and that he tells her LD sent him a letter. He disputes that and says there was no such letter.

Let us talk about the psychology of the issues around the testimony. CD had apparently agreed to have marriage counselling. You would expect that people committing to such a process would embark upon it with a sense of hope enthusiasm even even if sceptical or resistant. You wouldn't expect anyone to damage the process beforehand otherwise why go at all? Yet we are led to believe by AL that before going into the session PD grabs her by the throat and threatens her. He destroys the chance of success before the session. Perhaps he's an idiot or just can't control himself I could understand a controlling person refusing to go. I could even understand them arguing before deciding to go. Having made the decision TO GO it is entirely contrary to human nature that a person would permanently damage the chance of success by attacking your partner before the session. Indeed was he not concerned how she would then react in the session? Mmmmmm. then you have the problem about bruises. It is totally incongruent with human nature. Sorry but it is. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but I have concerns it didn't.

Annette Leary isn't a new witness and not there from the podcast stage. She was a witness at the 2003 inquest and was considered an important witness. Chris had a part time job as a garbo at one stage. See below. This is from Inquest Day 5 document that was on the Wordpress site.


Edit:
Just checked back in Hedley Thomas's article "Looking for Lyn" published in the Courier Mail 10 March 2003. The same information was said there.

Another colleague, Annette Leary, has told police of how she asked about bruising around Lyn's neck in the days before her disappearance. Lyn told her that as she and Chris were taking the lift to see a marriage counsellor, Chris "put his hands around her throat, shook her body and said `I'm only doing this once and if it doesn't work, I'm getting rid of you'."