Things we learnt tonight......

[Stifler's mom]

Thoughts on the game:

toovey is slow,

Are you for real?

Toovey is a lot of things but slow is NOT one of them.

 

[swiftdog]

Sorry, yes I do.

But why did it happen that way? It's as if someone pricked their confidence balloon. It just hapened so quickly, and there was no recovering.

It happened in a split-second thanks to Chris Bryan, it's a common domino effect in football.

Chris Bryan's late hit -> Geelong = pissed off -> Geelong goes crazy for the rest of the 2nd qtr -> Geelong full of confidence, Collingwood now flat -> GAME OVER

It happened with Maxwell's stray elbow to Murphy against Carlton last year as well.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Crying to the umpires every time he blows the whistle is not leadership.

Bucks did it all the time.
So do many other players and leaders in the afl..

is this what we're gonna do to nick from now on?? look for any little way to put down his selection as captain?

 

[pie chucker]

Thoughts on the game:
Geelong should have smashed us by far more than what they did and it was not because of us that they didn't smash us by more...it was their goal kicking

When your team loses like this beer is essential

Some of our decision making was just plain dumb

A good defender will shut anthony down, but if he cops it all year he will persist and I believe he will adapt.

Is Dawes the invisible man? Barely sighted was he subbed?
we have no taggers in our side. Wellingham plays too loose, cook is not up to it, toovey is slow, where do we turn to?

We need fraser. Even if you hate him you have to admit it.

Umpire's hate maxwell

If harry taylor is not in your dreamtime put him in now

Our skills when not under pressure have increased significantly, under pressure however not so much

Beams is ahead of Sidebottom and I believe he will play round 1. Beams looks comfortable enough at AFL level to have an impact at this level for 09. Definitely a quality pick up.

Despite his preseason injuries Medhurst is going to pick up where he left off. There were very little ball up forward but despite being rusty he looked lively and created opportunities

Bryan is a long way ahead of Wood at this stage? Dunno? Both made some blunders, if you took them out Bryan is ahead, but Bryan made more? I think the coaches would see Bryan ahead of Wood.

Bruce is still a sh1t commentator

Toovey is not as bad as we all like to make out. He wasn't our best, but he wasn't our worst. Did some good things tonight.

Bartel the 09 version looks like a bulked up emo peter parker. Think back to Spiderman 3 and you know it is true.

Umpires will annoy everyone by giving free kicks that are although correct by the letter of the law are extremely soft.

Reid is going to get exposed in the backline and screw up, but is not going to be absolutely horrible

O'brien and Shaw are a big out for us

Geelong are determined to wreak havoc on everyone for losing the GF in 08.

For a game that is concerned about more handballs than kicks, making the kick have to travel 20m for a mark to be taken does not help.

Thomas worked hard to find the footy. I thought he played well given we were being dominated by the Cats.

You should turn your phone off when you're a Collingwood fan and they are losing like this.

Everyone screwed up tonight. From the fringe players to the core players. Clarke, Cox, Bryan, etc. A lot of dumb decisions and poor skill execution.

Cucumber tastes better pickled.

Great post. Beer was the only saviour on Friday night. On nights like this, nothing works. Other nights (eg game against Cats last year), everything works. My main concern is that we never seem to click in a GF.

 

[rose jam]

Most of the core group played all 4 games so no wonder we hit a big flat spot (even though there was a decent break after the 1st game). Guys like Ckoke, Didak, Clarke, Davis, Pendles, Thomas etc should have at least have been rested for a game. We're going to kill Cloke.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Bucks did it all the time.
So do many other players and leaders in the afl..

is this what we're gonna do to nick from now on?? look for any little way to put down his selection as captain?

Maxwell has to grow up. Sooking is not leadership.

 

[crusader36]

This game was a good reality check. I definitely believe we will be competitive, but I really cannot see how we can win a grandfinal soon when we have a number of major flaws in our side. But like always I really hope I am wrong and somehow do make it. Tonight it was simple, it was a good side vs a super side and obviously the latter won. While I am pleased with how our side has improved over the last few years, we are still only a good side not a great super awesome side.

At times we are able to "punch above our weight" and for some it seems that is good enough, but if we want to win the premiership, we must correct our flaws and continue to improve in our desire and want to win as a team. As supporters we shouldn't accept anything but the best. Fumanchu is right in saying that 4th or 2nd is absolutely not good enough, esp for a club that prides itself on its history, its greatness and being the best on the field as well as off the field. We shouldn't make excuses for our failure or assume a performance is the best we can ever reach ie prelim in 2007. There is always another step up.

However it is not all doom and gloom, and we have a lot to look forward to in the next few years, and I am certaintly excited. So lets hope we can correct our deficiencies sooner rather than later and get to where we as a club (from the supporters to the players to the president) would like to be.

 

[Hells K1tch3n]

Ben Johnson is not an AFL standard footballer
Dayne Beams will be something special
We need to get games into Stanley to see if he can perform in the middle at AFL level (not on the back flanks, or as a CHB... ffs mick)
We need to play 2 key forwards (JA is not a key forward, he is a third forward, essendon are just shit)
We took our least strength team of the preseason into the grand final...

I want to watch the game again, as i was really only watching it while i was working

 

[DoubleO7]

This game was a good reality check. I definitely believe we will be competitive, but I really cannot see how we can win a grandfinal soon when we have a number of major flaws in our side. But like always I really hope I am wrong and somehow do make it. Tonight it was simple, it was a good side vs a super side and obviously the latter won. While I am pleased with how our side has improved over the last few years, we are still only a good side not a great super awesome side.

At times we are able to "punch above our weight" and for some it seems that is good enough, but if we want to win the premiership, we must correct our flaws and continue to improve in our desire and want to win as a team. As supporters we shouldn't accept anything but the best. Fumanchu is right in saying that 4th or 2nd is absolutely not good enough, esp for a club that prides itself on its history, its greatness and being the best on the field as well as off the field. We shouldn't make excuses for our failure or assume a performance is the best we can ever reach ie prelim in 2007. There is always another step up.

However it is not all doom and gloom, and we have a lot to look forward to in the next few years, and I am certaintly excited. So lets hope we can correct our deficiencies sooner rather than later and get to where we as a club (from the supporters to the players to the president) would like to be.

What do you mean our club when your club is specifically listed as Melbourne? Please explain?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Hopefully the selection of Dawes and Wellingham is the last time in season 2009 we choose a side on reputation rather than form.

I believe that Wellingham's selection may have been a "horses for courses" pick, given he was great against Geelong last time, rather than a reputation pick. Of course, that's open to debate.

Wellingham is not a tagger. I actually believe we don't need a tagger. We should just go head-to-head with the opposition and back ourselves in to hurt the opposition rather than negate them. This is why, whilst Toovey has been good, I don't see him in our best 22. If we are good enough we will prevail. Sharrod should be used as an attacking midfield option, hunt the ball, not the man.

I think we do need a tagger, at least one, on our list. This tagger may not be used every week, but certainly there are matchups that dictate that we should use one if in form. Wellingham and Barham, being quick and excellent tacklers, are IMHO our best candidates.

 

[Old Spice]

Re the debate about high-possesion games style. One thing to remember is the core line. If Geelong and Collingwood had a similar score, you might be able to say that Geelong over-posses compared to Pies, but the scoreline I think showed that their high possessions was reflected in a greater score. Possessions per goal might be a better way to get at the question.

In any case, what's clear is that Geelong do play through the middle and have the skill to do so. I think this might be the point about the Pies gameplan. It's not enough to will it through the centre and a gameplan, but the skill base to hit targets, then evade, carry and pass well.

Things then become chicken and eggy. Do you say we shouldn't do it because we aren't good enough to play that style, thereby essentially giving up on that style of approach, or do you say we have to sharpen the guys up so that they improve and can play that style.

It depends I suppose on your expectations and what latitude you're given. The pressures and cross-currents within the club make it hard. If it is expected that a premiership is on the horizon, starting to apply a new style can cost you games in the process. Not doing it, can win you more but cost you important ones.

After Friday's shellacing, I think we're still a class below, but can definitely beat Geelong on our day. In the next two years as our players develop, that margin will shrink. I think we need to experiment with teams like Hawthorn and Geelong to strenghten our playbook and sharpen skills.

 

[Return of the Pies]

Geelong are clearly more developed and threw our guys around like kids against men. They are still the benchmark and will be tough to beat this year. I don't think we can win a flag with O'Bree and Johnson in the team. They work hard and have been good servants, but the lack of finishing skills and/or propensity to turn the ball over in vulnerable parts of the ground is so costly.
You would rarely see all of Pendlebury, Swan, Davis and Didak have such stinkers on one night. I am very enthused by Beams. His courage was terrific and if the one question mark was occasional 'blazing' with his long kicking, from what I have seen there is little to worry about.
I think we will be a top 4-5 team. Geelong are just that good.

 

[FuManchu]

Re the debate about high-possesion games style. One thing to remember is the core line. If Geelong and Collingwood had a similar score, you might be able to say that Geelong over-posses compared to Pies, but the scoreline I think showed that their high possessions was reflected in a greater score. Possessions per goal might be a better way to get at the question.

Yes,in a clumsy way, that was what I was getting at with this:

The weight of numbers of their possessions only tells me that they get a lot more ball up forward a hell of lot more than us and for more effect.

In any case, what's clear is that Geelong do play through the middle and have the skill to do so. I think this might be the point about the Pies gameplan. It's not enough to will it through the centre and a gameplan, but the skill base to hit targets, then evade, carry and pass well.

And again, I believe that is the reason we play wide. But as you go onto suggest its the chicken and the egg argument. But with a variation. MM has not developed an effective midfield and ruck structure in his entire tenure at Collingwood. He has not got the recruiters or got draft swaps to really create a dangerous and effective midfield. Surely that is an indictment on his whole tenure. Enginerooms win flags, and he has persisted with a slow, pedestrian ( albeit servicable ) midfield but little regard for the Ruck dept.

In neglecting such a vital ingredient, he is forced into this ridiculously wide game.

So therefore is he a good coach and a bad list manager and recruiter and therefore his game plan is hamstrung by these inadequacies( because recruitment sheets home to him after so long, he gets what he asks for) ? These days you got to be good at all aspects.

Things then become chicken and eggy. Do you say we shouldn't do it because we aren't good enough to play that style, thereby essentially giving up on that style of approach, or do you say we have to sharpen the guys up so that they improve and can play that style.

I say that game plan will not win what ultimately you want to win. So the question is do you persist with a game plan that will only take you so far? Or do you bite the bullet, restructure everything so that recruitment and game plan coincide to peak at the one time. A bit like one step back to go 3 steps forward.

At the moment so many are lulled by these finals finishes from good coaching but poor list management and poor game day planning. They forget the original intent is not to make up the numbers as we do time and time again, but to win the ultimate prize.

It depends I suppose on your expectations and what latitude you're given. The pressures and cross-currents within the club make it hard. If it is expected that a premiership is on the horizon, starting to apply a new style can cost you games in the process. Not doing it, can win you more but cost you important ones.

You mean eternally 4th? I'd rather go into the rise and fall cycle than remain stagnant in no mans land.

After Friday's shellacing, I think we're still a class below, but can definitely beat Geelong on our day. In the next two years as our players develop, that margin will shrink. I think we need to experiment with teams like Hawthorn and Geelong to strenghten our playbook and sharpen skills.

Perhaps the question people should ask is: If the gap between 4th or wherever you think we are and the top is huge, are you content with remaining there or do you try new things to bridge the gap? In doing so, you risk fall, but you also might achieve the goal. MM is not a gambler, he is conservative, so we know what he will coach for.

He has copped little for not achieving, so there has been little pressure on him to change things.

 

[Trojan82]

Here are a few things I learnt that I haven't seen mentioned yet....Feel free to disagree....

Pendlebury got tagged by Ling. I believe last week he got tagged pretty successfully by Hocking. He needs to learn how to deal with a tag now. It didn't happen last year and other clubs now know that its a good tactic.

All through the NAB Cup Didak, Davis and Swan have all looked like they were not firing at 100%. Against Adelaide we will find out for sure but I wonder if this has been done on purpose.

Once the game was lost on Friday night I think we dropped a gear particularly from our stars which has a massive flow on effect. Some of the young kids obviously tried there guts out all night but when others around you aren't pushing as hard as you it makes it tough.

Dawes and Browny subbed off is not a good sign for either of them and I doubt we will see them against Adelaide.

A previous poster did point out that JA was manned by the number 1 fullback in the league and not much can be read into his game. Scarlett would usually have taken Rocca (Or Rusling if he comes good). It was a great game for JA to learn what playing true full forward is about but he wont need to for most of this year.

People are bagging out O'Bree a bit but he played against the best midfield in the competition.

IMO the Tribunal will tell us that Wood is playing against Adelaide. We will not defend Bryan as much as we did Maxwell. They are completely different scenarios!

 

[FuManchu]

Here are a few things I learnt that I haven't seen mentioned yet....Feel free to disagree....

Pendlebury got tagged by Ling. I believe last week he got tagged pretty successfully by Hocking. He needs to learn how to deal with a tag now. It didn't happen last year and other clubs now know that its a good tactic.

Yes, Pendlebury was quiet against Essendon the week before as well.

All through the NAB Cup Didak, Davis and Swan have all looked like they were not firing at 100%. Against Adelaide we will find out for sure but I wonder if this has been done on purpose.

We already know that trio can play, they have in far more important games than an NAB game.

Once the game was lost on Friday night I think we dropped a gear particularly from our stars which has a massive flow on effect. Some of the young kids obviously tried there guts out all night but when others around you aren't pushing as hard as you it makes it tough.

It became obvious that with 10 minutes of football in the second qtr, that the blokes knew the game was up and they did go down a gear. So fridays result is not a real indicatio of where they are at. No point in pushing too hard for a result that has no consequence if you know that pushing too hard could result in injury. I take little from fridays game, it wasnt important.

Dawes and Browny subbed off is not a good sign for either of them and I doubt we will see them against Adelaide.

I think Brown you might. Dawes seems to have an attitude problem.

A previous poster did point out that JA was manned by the number 1 fullback in the league and not much can be read into his game. Scarlett would usually have taken Rocca (Or Rusling if he comes good). It was a great game for JA to learn what playing true full forward is about but he wont need to for most of this year.

Well, he needs to learn how to deal with the best defender, because if he imposes himself like we want him to, he may cop that number one defender a lot more than he thinks. Cloke is not always going to get it, Rocca is not always going to be on the park. JA may cop them just in a match up situation. He better start learning now

People are bagging out O'Bree a bit but he played against the best midfield in the competition.

Lets face it, O'Bree is not an elite midfielder, at any other club he'd be a backup mid at best and a fringe player. He is slow, one sided, a poor kick, does not run the lines and has little penetration into the forward area. He is a plodder, he has always been a plodder. So unless one day we play a GF on a lake, he will not help you win a GF. So why persist with someone holding you back?

IMO the Tribunal will tell us that Wood is playing against Adelaide. We will not defend Bryan as much as we did Maxwell. They are completely different scenarios!

Wood is a better tap ruck but he seemingly has gone backwards to a large degree. I wonder what is going on with him. But I still think he has more upside thn Bryan. Whether we get to see that upside is a different matter.

 

[Barnzy]

I just went over these 10 pages and geez.. I thought Richmond supporters got carried away over NAB Cup defeats. All is not lost, atleast your team can actually make Grand Finals, let alone the finals.

 

[Snag Breac]

I just went over these 10 pages and geez.. I thought Richmond supporters got carried away over NAB Cup defeats. All is not lost, atleast your team can actually make Grand Finals, let alone the finals.

The Pies board is palace of passion, Barnzy.

 

[Barnzy]

The Pies board is palace of passion, Barnzy.

.. One thing I do agree on with some posters though is, Nick Maxwell should never had been made captain. In those games you need someone to lead by example and say "This is how you do it boys". Dummy spitting at the umpires and a poor performance. I watch alot of Collingwood games, I seriously doubt he's even in your best 22 at times. Other than that, you guys have a good young list and should make the top 4 if you don't drop games you shouldn't.