Opinion Thoughts on Dawes' Dees Interview

[Obese Arachnid]

So he deserves to be in the leadership group because he is big and played in a premiership team?

I think melbourne keep making terrible choices... starting with chopping all their experienced players and giving trengove captaincy at 20

If you want to denigrate it to that then yes, that is a large part of it. You obviously ignored the part about winning team culture, which Melb desperately need.

So your'e saying Trengove is a bad choice but then not getting some wiser old heads about the place helps this?

 

[76woodenspooners]

My thoughts.
I think he wishes he was still a Collingwood player.

Really?

He's going to get a lot more opportunities at Melbourne than he would have at Collingwood - leadership role as an example.

 

[Mick98]

Really?

He's going to get a lot more opportunities at Melbourne than he would have at Collingwood - leadership role as an example.

He seems to be lamenting the fact he isn't a Collingwood player anymore in that interview IMO.

He isn't leadership material......................sorry

 

[Stifler's mom]

Hope he has a good and long career.
There aren't many living Collingwood full forwards.
Exclusive club.

I think you mean Premiership full forwards

 

[blaze036]

If you want to denigrate it to that then yes, that is a large part of it. You obviously ignored the part about winning team culture, which Melb desperately need.

So your'e saying Trengove is a bad choice but then not getting some wiser old heads about the place helps this?

Sure a winning team culture is important, but how is dawes in the leadership group going to help that? You get a winning team culture by winning not putting people in a leadership group.

I'm not saying trengove is a bad choice, i said a 20 year old trengove was a bad choice... there is a difference. And where did i say wiser heads wouldn't help their leadership?

 

[Checkside35]

Premiership players don't make leaders because they have a goldy around their neck. You'd hope Melbourne put other qualities before that one when looking at Dawes as a potential leader.
Bucks said something about the big men needing to be monsters in his side. IMO this would be a big reason why he let him go. Dawes may have looked imposing but we could all see that the physical side of his game was lacking. Having said that, is Lynch going to hurt anyone that gets in his way. Can't say that I have watched enough of him to answer that. Anybody?

 

[blaze036]

Premiership players don't make leaders because they have a goldy around their neck. You'd hope Melbourne put other qualities before that one when looking at Dawes as a potential leader.
Bucks said something about the big men needing to be monsters in his side. IMO this would be a big reason why he let him go. Dawes may have looked imposing but we could all see that the physical side of his game was lacking. Having said that, is Lynch going to hurt anyone that gets in his way. Can't say that I have watched enough of him to answer that. Anybody?

Yes.

 

[Avatar]

He will inflict pain no doubt about that.
Sent shivers Fri night him.shuntinh into Rambo like that.

 

[Mick98]

Mitch Clark will run rings around him.

Will always love him for being a Collingwood Premiership player,but we didn't let him go for no reason.

 

[Cyclops]

Lovely bloke, premiership success will help his leadership in the short term in that it will impress the young blokes (Melbourne is so desperate they need every straw they can clutch). He's smart and he never stopped trying until the end, and you can't blame him for dropping the head the way it panned out.

He's a big strong forward and was run out of form: a coaching failure I'm afraid in part, but a coach can't be good for every type of player and Bucks is good for most of them.

Maybe Melbourne or some other club (I hope he moves on, what a Hell Melbourne is in atm) will suit him better.

 

[blaze036]

Lovely bloke, premiership success will help his leadership in the short term in that it will impress the young blokes (Melbourne is so desperate they need every straw they can clutch). He's smart and he never stopped trying until the end, and you can't blame him for dropping the head the way it panned out.

He's a big strong forward and was run out of form: a coaching failure I'm afraid in part, but a coach can't be good for every type of player and Bucks is good for most of them.

Maybe Melbourne or some other club (I hope he moves on, what a Hell Melbourne is in atm) will suit him better.

He had to play 10% of the game in the ruck, played at a pathetic level (even when forward), and you blame bucks?

 

[Markfs]

Another thing that has come to light in the last few months....well at least to me about a month ago....and I think its relevant and I'm not sure anyone has raised it...

but Chris took a bit of a salary drop when he signed his last contract. He did that because the Pies were trying to squeeze others in the salary cap so Chris actually aaccepted a relatively low pay level on his contract.

I read a while back that the Pies thought it would be unfair if the club was to stand in Chris's way if he got a good offer from Melbourne or West Bulldogs, because he was effectively being underpaid at the Pies.

 

[blaze036]

Another thing that has come to light in the last few months....well at least to me about a month ago....and I think its relevant and I'm not sure anyone has raised it...

but Chris took a bit of a salary drop when he signed his last contract. He did that because the Pies were trying to squeeze others in the salary cap so Chris actually aaccepted a relatively low pay level on his contract.

I read a while back that the Pies thought it would be unfair if the club was to stand in Chris's way if he got a good offer from Melbourne or West Bulldogs, because he was effectively being underpaid at the Pies.

Based on his performances for the 2nd half of 2011 and 2012 he was getting over payed

 

[Cyclops]

He had to play 10% of the game in the ruck, played at a pathetic level (even when forward), and you blame bucks?

Malthouse found a way to make him moderately effective, although he isn't the best kick and actually a poor mark for his size, Bucks put this square peg into a round hole.

Dawes wasn't a particularly good forward, and he came back to the field with Bucks in charge, there's no blame here, its how I see the guys interacting.

 

[jonbe54]

Malthouse found a way to make him moderately effective, although he isn't the best kick and actually a poor mark for his size, Bucks put this square peg into a round hole.

Dawes wasn't a particularly good forward, and he came back to the field with Bucks in charge, there's no blame here, its how I see the guys interacting.

Bux seemed to demand that Dawes step up to the line and produce, Dawes either was incapable or not interested in actually competing for his position. The end result is of course inescapable. . .

 

[Cyclops]

Bux seemed to demand that Dawes step up to the line and produce, Dawes either was incapable or not interested in actually competing for his position. The end result is of course inescapable. . .

Yep, I think Malthouse got the best out of Dawes by protecting him a little. He did have favourites, MM, and he got alot out of some quiet guys other coaches couldn't.

Bucks is shining a bit of harsh light on our list, its another way of doing things and seems to be just as valid as MM's. The captaincy discussion is another aspect of this, certainly Dawes would not be considered under MM or NB, shows Melbourne are a bit leaderless but thats no surprise.

 

[Maggie5]

He has gone, leave him be. He gave what he could and turned out was not enough. Time for all of us to move on like he has.

 

[Markfs]

Malthouse found a way to make him moderately effective, although he isn't the best kick and actually a poor mark for his size, Bucks put this square peg into a round hole.

Dawes wasn't a particularly good forward, and he came back to the field with Bucks in charge, there's no blame here, its how I see the guys interacting.

Comparing the use of Dawes by Bucks and MM is a bit ridiculous. MM had Leigh Brown. Bucks didnt. As for Malthouse finding " a way to make him moderately effective". I would argue that coaches dont have that large of an effect on a player's form, at least across the season. The fact is, Chris had a good season in 2010, but it wasnt a blinder. He was effective in tanden with Travis Cloke. After that, he failed to improve much. His marking failed to improve, either through average ability or not enough confidence and his kicking, while never strong, lost some of its accuracy - probably due to lack of confidence. He gave the impression that he dwelt on his problems, rather than brushing them off and looking forward to the next contest.

A lot of these traits are inherent to the person. It's not a matter of coaching them out. A player either improves or gets worse under a different coach. Too often, people think its the coach that has been the magic solution. A lot of the times, it's the player showing a new attitude, being given an opportunity for a fresh start.

Yes, its true, sometimes where are personality problems between players and coaches, but I dont anyone could say that Bucks had a problem with Chris or that MM had any special insight into Chris. Chris's lack of improvement in the last two years is mainly due to him and his inability to take on a role that he HAD to take on if he was going to be a permanent member of the team.

 

[MarkT2]

I think you mean Premiership full forwards

Yes, sorry, that is what I meant.

 

[Ed D]

I still think there is something we are all missing here. Why did Collingwood so easily let him go to Melbourne while he still had 2yrs remaining on his contract. If say Pendles came out in the media saying he wanted out or was looking around.....Eddie would have come out strong saying he is under a binding contract and not going anywhere.
So in the Dawes situation.....had out coaches totally lost faith in him and the offer from melbourne too good to refuse. Or was it based on Salary Cap relief. Im sure after 2010 and even 2011 pick 20 for Dawes would have been laughed at by our officials.

I'd say there were a few reasons why Collingwood didn't fight hard to keep him. His pay (not huge but significant to free up salary cap space), his perfomances and ability, that he didn't want to stay at the club, and what other clubs were prepared to offer in a trade. No doubt it would be different with someone like Pendles, because he makes a huge difference on the field and his value is extremely high. Like you said, Dawes' value has dropped, and one of the big reasons it was up there to start with was based on potential, not output.