Time for Gubby to Go?

[Quigley]

This question was asked elsewhere the other day and I have been thinking about it ever since. I was ambivalent but the more I think about it the more I think it is time he was moved on. Every year we have list management fiascos coming out of the office of one Mr G Allan.

For the last four years or so we always had key young players unsigned come this time of year and every year we would get poached and end up having to pay above market value. This year I thought we had learnt our leason when we wrapped up Clark early but Brown remaining unsigned was a major distraction at the time when we were fighting for a finals spot.

The Johnstone acquisition also had Gubby's finger prints all over it. With the seeming move to no nonsense players how does he fit in? He is talented but is his attitude detrimental to the team as a whole?

Now we have given away a player in Corrie who was in our best 22 all year and showed he had a bit to offer on the wing which was a new position for him.

Begley also remains unsigned and for me he seems to have been handled disgracefully by the club. This is a guy that moved his life from Ireland, has shown plenty, was asked by the club to remain on the rookie list last year and did it when he could have demanded and been given a full list spot and multi year contract, was played in a more defensive role this year to his detriment and had injury issues most of the year. To treat him as they have sends a very poor message to the players and spirit within the club will suffer because of it imo. It lacks class and an awareness of the consequences by Gubby. He has been getting yearly holidays to Ireland supposedly to build our brand there and aid recruiting. Our Irish recruiting program has been effectively killed off because of Gubby's usual ill conceived and poorly considered list management strategy.

Time to go Gubby Allan.

Sorry mods - let the wolves decend.

 

[Cousin Jed]

*Goes and gets some popcorn*

He will be gone by this time next year.

 

[Dylan12]

This year I thought we had learnt our leason when we wrapped up Clark early but Brown remaining unsigned was a major distraction at the time when we were fighting for a finals spot.

The Johnstone acquisition also had Gubby's finger prints all over it. With the seeming move to no nonsense players how does he fit in? He is talented but is his attitude detrimental to the team as a whole?

Now we have given away a player in Corrie who was in our best 22 all year and showed he had a bit to offer on the wing which was a new position for him.

Begley also remains unsigned and for me he seems to have been handled disgracefully by the club.

Good OP Quigs.I know he has done alot of good for the club, but you are 100% spot re:

1. Brown's prolonged contract negotiations at a critical time of the year (some responsibility does lie with Brown and his mgt)
2. Johnstone - not exactly a success last year and tbh, pick 14 would have been much more useful.
3. Corrie - disgusted...third leading goal-kicker, showed alot, could actually have an impact/influence on a game...but yet we keep Harding...go figure.
4. Begley - if true, I am appalled. Can't say I have been a huge wrap for the whole Irish experiment, but Begley shows something...again more than say Harding. If Begley goes, why would any Irish kid want to come to the Lions after being axed when Begley proved he could play. Great way to endear yourself to the Irish boys if true, but I bet he would not be giving up his cushy yearly trip to Ireland.

During our halcyon days, he formed a formidable partnership with Lethal, but maybe with a new coach, Ashcroft should have replaced Gubby.

Similar to CJ's opinion, wouldn't be surprised if he was gone in a year, he has done alot of good for the club, you just hope he doesn't hang around for any selfish reasons.

 

[scotty4]

we way overpaid for johnstone, but i dont think begley has shown as much as others think
harding on the other hand, i cant even remotely see where he fits in

 

[Quigley]

During our halcyon days, he formed a formidable partnership with Lethal, but maybe with a new coach, Ashcroft should have replaced Gubby.

In our halcyon days Ireland held the reins.

 

[Dylan12]

In our halcyon days Ireland held the reins.

When did Allen become Leighs 2IC. I thought Allen joined in 1999, when Leigh arrived...my mistake.

 

[Old Den]

Some patience will probably be required - in a little over a week from now (31 October) the first list lodgement for 2009 is required,which includes rookies promoted and retained which,hopefully,sorts out the positions of Begley,Tippett and Garner.

I haven't seen any word as to the re-signing of Hawksley,Macdonald,McGrath,Notting,Roe,Sheldon and Stiller - but that is not to say it hasn't happened,so unless any of those have been or are delisted,the Senior List stands at 33.

So a minimum of 5 and 7 at the most(through Veterans outside the list) can be added as far as we know now - it might turn out to be more.

Of course we don't know what is being considered regarding the drafts including the Pre Season Draft.

 

[Quigley]

Different roles but Ireland was the CEO throughout the premiership years before moving to the Swans in 2004 I think it was

 

[John]

The Johnstone acquisition also had Gubby's finger prints all over it.

No opinion really other than this. I have heard that Mathews was very insistent on the Johnstone acquisition.

 

[Grimreepah]

I wouldn't have thought any of us are familar enough with all the factors involved to be able to make any sort of definitive judgement on this.

Re Brown - was in contract negotiations early in the year. I'm not sure how you expect him to force Brown to sign.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Last year I would have considered agreeing, but this year's trade week was a dream.

I have no basis to call for his sacking.

Agree on Begley though... let him know one way or the other at least.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Sheesh Quigs, you must be wearing long strides otherwise ya ghoolies would be showing, an interesting OP.

In my opinion if Gubby does have additional time on the clock then as John has suggested maybe? it was Leigh who was looking for the last breath gasp of power and glory with the on sell of pick 14 for Johnstone?

From what we are led to believe about Leigh? There are suggestions that he was not going to let anybody tell him what to do? Yes - I know, the come back volley would be; but what about his response come draft time where he has been quoted and observed to take a back seat and allow “those” within the club will look after list management.

Not having an inside knowledge to the club and as I have previously stated elsewhere I rated Corrie just outside our best 22, depending on form, anywhere between say 23 and 28? IMO.

The Begley situation is purely speculative? Come the 31st we will know, but happy at present with the no news is good news? My fingers are crossed, wise heads will prevail and Colm will still have a part to play in our next Premiership.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Oh, and who is to say that with the JB stalemate that it wasn’t GA who made the Big Call to check mate Leigh?

 

[Quigley]

If you are going to give a spray make it a good one and don't let the facts get in the way.

Seriously though I have been very frustrated each of the last few years with several very poor administrative decisions each year. A lot of those have been around list management and that seems to have continued this year and Gubby Allan seems to be regularly be in the middle of the muck.

And yes Leigh consistently said that he took a back seat on the list management issues. Those guys would have been silly not to consult and take in what he had to say but the decision is ultimately theirs.

With Browny, from the start everyone knew where it was going to end up. The whole matter could have quietly been dealt with behind closed doors about two months before it was. Some fault has to stand with Brown's team but it was reported from several sources that the Lions were sticking to their guns and only offering a 3 year deal and stayed with that position for an inordinate amount of time. Everyone knew they would compromise why distract the team with pointless grandstanding when you were always going to come around.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Would have been calling for his head, had the anomally that Sam Neuman raised re: the Brown signing come to fruition.

- ie. Brown said that he gave Gubby the "we're all good" verbal confirmation as to re-signing, and Gubby left the paperwork until after he went to Ireland and back.

Sam's comment to the effect of "you're telling me that arguably the best player in the AFL wants to re-sign and Gubby says we'll deal with it when I get back from Ireland?" IMO has legs - With all due respect to Browny - I agree with Sam in the sense that something is odd about that.

I guess I'm the type that if I won the lottery, I'd be at Golden Casket at 9.00 am the next morning wanting to know where my cheque was.

Anyways, I will be calling for his head if we don't stitch up Begley. His time down back this year, I had thought, was to make him a better player. The biggest blemish that I recall he had in that role was "that play on decision" with a few minutes left against the Roos at Carrara, which lets face it, was a BS umpire's call. I may have repressed a couple of other touch ups he had from opponents, but I'm sure he will read the play better from his time back there and learned off the opposition forwards, which, perhaps I naively assumed was the point of having him back there in the first place.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Not one to spray Quigs,

Re the Browny scenario, No, everybody didn’t know where JB was going to end up. The news was scary down here with the Pies talking of “An Open” or Lay Down Misere with the champagne on ice almost being shouted out.

 

[notting18]

Gubby, etc were in a catch 22 situation re: Brown's contract. If he left Gubby and the team were going to be blamed. If he stayed Browny was "always staying" and they would get no credit.

 

[John]

I guess I'm the type that if I won the lottery, I'd be at Golden Casket at 9.00 am the next morning wanting to know where my cheque was.

I know a couple who won and were told to come back in a couple of weeks.

Anyways, I will be calling for his head if we don't stitch up Begley.

I have made it clear that I think that we have a future player in Begs but if we decide not to take a punt on him, a player that at best has been an elevated rookie I will not be calling for anyone's head if we let him go.

We have to let the new coach make his own decisions.

 

[Old Den]

If Gubby Allan is to be criticised for list management - and I think some comments have been a bit harsh - he is also entitled to some credit for the very good recruiting over the past 3 years

2005 2006 2007

Clark (+) Leuenberger (+) Henderson (+)
Mills (-) Proud (+) Collier (+)
Hooper (+) Schmidt (-) Polkinghorne (?)
Patfull (+) Hawksley (?) Dalziell (+)
Tyler (?) Austin (?)
Roe (+) Sheldon (?)
Clark Len (-)
Forsyth (-) Corrie (+) Smith (?)
Clouston (+) Garner (?)
Dzufer (-) Hanley (?)
Kiel (-)
Tippett (+)

26 new faces - 12 PLUSES 6 MINUSES 8 JURY STILL OUT

Of the 8 yet to be decided 6 are looking good

The dragging on Contract renewals we find annoying but some players (with Manager's advice,no doubt) like to see what is offered probably even including Browny but this year the worry was a lot less than previously - If the reports on what has been offered in the poaching stakes are mainly correct,more credit is due to the club for retaining most of the players concerned

As for Corrie - I would have preferred to keep him but I know what Sergeant Schultz says he knows about the whys and wherefores regarding that decision

To sum up - Gubby Allan is very experienced,nobody is perfect - I don't think it is too hard to go from rooster to feather duster in that job if things come back to bite you - I'm satisfied with his efforts

 

[acuguy]

After reading Emma Quayle's The Draft does anyone know if our recruiting process is as well structured and researched as the Hawthorn method?

 

[acuguy]

The Press on Begley being delisted or moving on has to be bloody nonsense!

I am pretty sure the boy has only been on our list for 3 seasons, in that time he has shown more than enough to suggest he will only get better and better. Begs has pace, courage and skill, i would have imagined this year pre season would be the most rewarding one for him in terms of growing confidence in his own game. If we pull out now then our list management need to be shot. In Begley and Hanley we have 2 important players who will be important in our future structure.

 

[NQlionnut]

the thing to remember about the aquisition of Johnstone was that the plan was for him to be supplementing a midfeild that included Nigel Lappin who know how that may have worked out, but it sounds good on paper. I agree that all the delays with resigning is pretty ordinary but the Lions always seem to be more secretive about internal movements ( a hangover from Aka spilling the beans on a weekly basis maybe) than the other clubs

 

[Hollow Knight]

Wrong thread. Sorry.

 

[Ruse]

Wrong thread. Sorry.

 

[The_Roar]

I know this has nothing to do with Gubby, but who is responsible for the fitness staff?

Does anyone have info on Lachlan Penfold? I heard Vossy was trying to get him across to West Coast when he had that assistant job, so obviously he must rate him.

I'm not too sold on the Lions fitness (based on the last couple of seasons) and would like to find out what kind of background he's got and who got him to the club.