Tom Boyd

[Sweet Jesus]

It shows your stupidy.

How's that?

It shows that you can't sustain an argument about Boyd so have to pivot to talking about a different player at a different club.

Let's assume for a second that I concede Naitanui is in fact overpaid. Does that mean Boyd isn't? How are the two connected?

 

[Whats a Battle]

The fact that they won the flag doesn't automatically mean Boyd has been worth $1 million per season. That argument doesn't prove what you claim it proves.

There were 22 players for the Dogs on GF day. Are they all worth $1 million per season too? Or is Boyd the only one, even though he's nowhere near being their best player?

According to NSM judges he was their second best player. JJ received 10 votes and Boyd received 7. No Boyd, no flag. Yes you could say that about other Dogs players such as Picken, but they were already at the club, the $1m/year is what got Boyd to the club in the first place.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Why are you so obsessed with him?

I'm not. I am inclined, though, to point out obvious realities when people deny them.

Honestly, what do you expect of a 21 year old, 200cm, 104 kg ruck/forward? Do you expect him to be kicking 80 goals a year?

That's not the issue. It's whether he's been overpaid or not. He has been.

You aren't getting anywhere with this mate. Stop wastin your time.

I'll take it under advisement.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

How am I rejecting it? I've already addressed that point. Weird. What weird reply.

You rejected the figure and the sourcing from media reports here.

Despite quoting the figure yourself here.

The contradiction is obvious.

On one hand, you suggest the figure is dubious and media reports can't be trusted. Yet you've quoted the figure yourself, presumably relying on those same media reports.

 

[Doggies1972]

How's that?

It shows that you can't sustain an argument about Boyd so have to pivot to talking about a different player at a different club.

Let's assume for a second that I concede Naitanui is in fact overpaid. Does that mean Boyd isn't? How are the two connected?

It comes back again.... Players are paid to help get their team the premiership.
Tom boyd did, Nic Nat hasn't... yet it's taken you 8 pages of dribble to only nearly concede the point that Nic is overpaid.
So where are your massive rants about Nic. This has being going on for years with him. Tom helps team win premiership, most agree should have gotten Norm Smith and yet he is the one you carry on about.
Look in your own backyard if players salaries are of such a personal concern.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

No, he can kick 17 goals a year like a 29 year old also highly paid ruck/forward. Sweet Jesus if you want to pick on a player for being poor value, Tippett's your man.

Tippett is also overpaid. Does that mean Boyd isn't?

According to NSM judges he was their second best player. JJ received 10 votes and Boyd received 7. No Boyd, no flag. Yes you could say that about other Dogs players such as Picken, but they were already at the club, the $1m/year is what got Boyd to the club in the first place.

Is Joel Hamling worth $1 million a year too?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Supposedly the equal highest paid player in the comp last season along with Gary Ablett.

I am unfamiliar with that number. Do you have a source?

If Naitanui is in fact being paid $1.2 million per season, then yes, that seems like overs to me.

How does this make the case one way or the other regarding Boyd?

It comes back again.... Players are paid to help get their team the premiership.

That doesn't mean they're all worth $1 million just because the team won the flag. That is not a logical argument.

Was Joel Hamling suddenly worth $1 million per season because the Dogs won the flag?

Tom boyd did, Nic Nat hasn't... yet it's taken you 8 pages of dribble to only nearly concede the point that Nic is overpaid.
So where are your massive rants about Nic. This has being going on for years with him. Tom helps team win premiership, most agree should have gotten Norm Smith and yet he is the one you carry on about.
Look in your own backyard if players salaries are of such a personal concern.

Again, you are unable to sustain an argument about Boyd, so pivot instead to another player at another club.

Why don't you just concede Boyd has been overpaid to date? Because you've basically stopped arguing against this.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Tom was paid 2nd year wages last year and kicked 16 goals. He was underpaid.

You rejected the figure and the sourcing from media reports here.

Despite quoting the figure yourself here.

The contradiction is obvious.

On one hand, you suggest the figure is dubious and media reports can't be trusted. Yet you've quoted the figure yourself, presumably relying on those same media reports.

I used a figure I guessed. My estimations are a legitimate source. Don't presume to know where I garnered the figures from. However I'm the first to admit I have no idea how much his exact salary is. I assume you're in a similar boat, unless you do, in fact, have said bank statements. Wouldn't they be a godsend about now? We could really have a debate then; with facts...

 

[conrad_437]

I'm not. I am inclined, though, to point out obvious realities when people deny them.

That's not the issue. It's whether he's been overpaid or not. He has been.

I'll take it under advisement.

He's overpaid now. However the thing you fail to grasp is that it doesn't matter whether he's overpaid or not. He was our best player in a grand final, one of our most influential in the PF and more than serviceable in the SF and EF. He isn't forcing players out because of his contract, which is what people claimed would happen. What's wrong with him being overpaid in his third year for what he could be like in his eighth?

Tell us all what you're expectations of Tom were this season.

 

[Whats a Battle]

Tippett is also overpaid. Does that mean Boyd isn't?

Is Joel Hamling worth $1 million a year too?

A $1mil/year deal wasn't required to grab Joel Hamling, he was brought over as a delisted free agent. As a fringe player delisted by Geelong, he has less currency than last year's still contracted #1 pick that GWS didn't want to let go. More was required to bring Boyd over to the Dogs.

I'm sure the Footscray admin would love it if Boyd could be brought over for $50k/year, but they did what they had to do to get Boyd there. It's not like there's been a mass exodus due to salary cap pressure, so what's the problem?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What's with this obsession with saying Tom Boyd is overpaid?

Okay, if you looked it at the narrowest lens possible, you can conclude that he's overpaid. Literally and technically speaking he's one of the highest paid players in the competition and he's not one of the very best players in the competition. No Dogs supporter will disagree with you there.

But the thing is player's salaries are paid in the context of utilising the whole salary cap. You have 100% of the cap to spend and you can distribute that money in a way you believe is most efficient.

Clubs look to build a strong culture so they can re-sign their own players usually drafted for a rate lower than they could command in the market. That means that they are underpaid. Technically speaking the other Boyd is underpaid because he's an AA yet on not much more than minimum wage. Jesse Hogan claimed he had offers of over $1.2 million on the table from other clubs, but was retained for about two thirds of that at Melbourne and is therefore underpaid.

Underpaying some players creates salary cap room in order to overpay others to recruit them from other clubs.

Basically we failed to recruit a gun KPF through the draft in order to underpay them. All the league's best KPF who entered the competition in the last few years - Lynch, Patton, Hogan, McCartin... we missed out on.

So we recruited a player in a position of need by overpaying them seeing as we failed to recruit one in the draft.

It's no different to say Collingwood overpaying for somebody like Chris Mayne. Is he overpaid? Yes. Clearly so. But they had a list management need for a forward pressuring player, had money in their salary cap because they're probably underpaying players like Grundy, Pendlebury and Sidebottom would command in an open market. It's allocating their 100% of their salary cap in an efficient way which does include overpaying players like Mayne.

Not every player is worth the same to all clubs. Sydney already have Tippett and Buddy, so Boyd clearly isn't worth $1 million to them. But he is to us - because, for example, if you took Boyd from us but also gave us his salary cap room back, we'd be in a worse off position. This is because the $1 million new salary cap room as a benefit is not more beneficial than no Boyd, and our best KPF being Cloke next year and Redpath coming off an ACL tear. Therefore from that perspective he's not overpaid, because we're not better off in a list management situation if we could void his contract and release him into the wild right here right now.

Is it really that hard of a concept to understand?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I used a figure I guessed.

You guessed? And it just happened to be the same figure quoted in every report about his contract. What a coincidence.

I thought you were all about "dealing in facts". But now you're telling me you just guessed?

My estimations are a legitimate source. Don't presume to know where I garnered the figures from.

You already told me you guessed.

But more importantly, you now accept that the $1 million figure is viable?

Because you were questioning it previously.

Which one is it, champ?

However I'm the first to admit I have no idea how much his exact salary is.

Was it a "legitimate source" or did you just guess? You seem to be alternating between the two.

I assume you're in a similar boat, unless you do, in fact, have said bank statements.

I accept the veracity of the media reports, given the figure has been reported with uniformity for a couple of years.

And you acknowledge above that the figure is viable, whether it's gleaned from media reports, other legitimate sources or just your wild guess that happens to be identical. So we can put that tangent to bed.

 

[FoochPackage]

Bloody hell. I never thought id say it...... but give me JeffDunne over this bloke anyday. Jeff???

 

[TiAn_]

An indisputable fact. And not only that, he received the second most NSM votes of any Bulldog player (Jo$h Kennedy came second).

Funny, I did know that.

Let me ask, how many votes did Eagles players receive when you lost the grand final by 46 points the year before?

On another note, have you googled premise yet?

G.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

He's overpaid now. However the thing you fail to grasp is that it doesn't matter whether he's overpaid or not.

You're a big fan of saying people "fail to grasp" things as though you're revealing something profound that has so far gone unnoticed before following up with something utterly banal.

You already acknowledged he's been overpaid to date. That's the only argument I've been making.

He was our best player in a grand final, one of our most influential in the PF and more than serviceable in the SF and EF. He isn't forcing players out because of his contract, which is what people claimed would happen. What's wrong with him being overpaid in his third year for what he could be like in his eighth?

Tell us all what you're expectations of Tom were this season.

Like I said, you've acknowledged he's been overpaid. That's my only argument.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

A $1mil/year deal wasn't required to grab Joel Hamling, he was brought over as a delisted free agent. As a fringe player delisted by Geelong, he has less currency than last year's still contracted #1 pick that GWS didn't want to let go. More was required to bring Boyd over to the Dogs.

The argument being made for Boyd is that the Dogs won the flag so he's therefore worth $1 million a year. It's bizarre. So I just want to know if that goes for the other players who played in the GF. Or does it only apply to Boyd?

I'm sure the Footscray admin would love it if Boyd could be brought over for $50k/year, but they did what they had to do to get Boyd there. It's not like there's been a mass exodus due to salary cap pressure, so what's the problem?

The question is whether he's been overpaid to date. He clearly has.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

What's with this obsession with saying Tom Boyd is overpaid?

Okay, if you looked it at the narrowest lens possible, you can conclude that he's overpaid. Literally and technically speaking he's one of the highest paid players in the competition and he's not one of the very best players in the competition. No Dogs supporter will disagree with you there.

He's clearly been overpaid. But some Dogs supporters apparently would disagree.

 

[conrad_437]

You're a big fan of saying people "fail to grasp" things as though you're revealing something profound that has so far gone unnoticed before following up with something utterly banal.

You already acknowledged he's been overpaid to date. That's the only argument I've been making.

Like I said, you've acknowledged he's been overpaid. That's my only argument.

Congratulations. Did you need however many pages to argue your point? He's 21, just leave it.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

He's clearly been overpaid. But some Dogs supporters apparently would disagree.

Are you going to reply to the rest of my post or are you only going to selectively quote what supports your argument and ignore what doesn't?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Congratulations. Did you need however many pages to argue your point?

There are quite a few for whom the penny still hasn't dropped. So, yes.

He's 21, just leave it.

I don't follow.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Are you going to reply to the rest of my post or are you only going to selectively quote what supports your argument and ignore what doesn't?

My plan was to respond to the part of the post that acknowledged the obvious reality in a straightforward manner, while ignoring the several paragraphs of false nuance arguing against it.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

The Crows who had a great injury run and got spanked in the second week of the finals and the Giants who have had all the picks in the world and couldn't beat us on their own patch. I'm pretty happy with our list management in comparison. Calling the premiers list management "serviceable" is ridiculous. Are lists not managed with the aim of winning a premiership?

You won a premiership im taking the piss. Ofcourse the dogs have a great list

 

[Pannalstaroz]

You guessed? And it just happened to be the same figure quoted in every report about his contract. What a coincidence.

So it was a good guess?

I thought you were all about "dealing in facts". But now you're telling me you just guessed?

I think everyone would prefer to deal in facts, but no one can be certain, because no one knows.

But more importantly, you now accept that the $1 million figure is viable?

Of course it could be, as could any other figure. Perhaps he's on $150,000 and the media's wild speculation is just that?

Was it a "legitimate source" or did you just guess? You seem to be alternating between the two.

Define "legitimate source"

I accept the veracity of the media reports, given the figure has been reported with uniformity for a couple of years.

And you acknowledge above that the figure is viable, whether it's gleaned from media reports, other legitimate sources or just your wild guess that happens to be identical. So we can put that tangent to bed.

Earth was reported as flat for many years, uniformly. Perhaps not everything reported as correct, is correct? It's hard to know what the truth is, when no one actually knows.

I think for all our benefit we should all simply speculate Tom's wage as x. As it's unknown, it will give everyone the knowledge that they're correct.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I think everyone would prefer to deal in facts, but no one can be certain, because no one knows.

So maybe you shouldn't dismiss information that is actually sourced, when you're only guessing.

Of course it could be, as could any other figure. Perhaps he's on $150,000 and the media's wild speculation is just that?

Yes, it's just a random number plucked out of thin air by every media report. And parroted by you.

Define "legitimate source"

You're the one who used the phrase. You define it.

Earth was reported as flat for many years, uniformly. Perhaps not everything reported as correct, is correct? It's hard to know what the truth is, when no one actually knows.

Wow. That blows my mind.

I think for all our benefit we should all simply speculate Tom's wage as x. As it's unknown, it will give everyone the knowledge that they're correct.

Tell this guy.

 

[TiAn_]