Strategy Tom Langdon trade bait.

[jackcass]

Because since becoming a defender we've kept teams to lower scores won more games and looked like a half a team again. He's intercepts marks, makes the kicking in the backline look elite which has been lacking for years and gives us some balance down back with Reid and Brown having some sort of pressure taken off them. Howe also provides experience down back which is a valuable asset to any defense that wants to succeed.

Don't get too attached to it.

 

[PieBeast]

It may be more defensive structure that has let us down this year and more so in the early part of the season. Maynard and Marsh have been up and down, Scharenberg for me the jury is still out on noting his limited game time and Ramsey I must admit really goes unnoticed for me. (not saying he's bad, I just don't pick up on him when he's out there like others). We've been poor one on one defending.

Here's the thing, one on one defending is exactly what Langdon is rubbish at, not to mention he isn't exactly excels at anything other than occasional intercept marking. And I reckon you're confusing having plenty of time with slow decision making, he might not be getting done holding the pill but not seeing and utilising the first best option available is his glaring weakness.
Not the worst player on our list but very vanilla.

Right now he is a very poor man's Mackie and I can't see him improving enough to become someone we can't afford to lose.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Don't get too attached to it.

Well like when Buckley took Reid away from defense we will never go anywhere if we continue to weaken it by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Gone Critical]

Brown Reid Marsh Maynard Shaz Howe my back six next year.

Ramma first off the rank.

Marley up field further. Better ball winner than defender.

Rest depth.

Of those the most obvious one to question is Scharenberg. He had a little bit of senior footy in 2015 when he was just ok. That was fine because he was coming back from injury. In 2017 he will need to gain confidence and development that has been lost. He is no where near best 22 for now although obviously we hope he can become that. For now give him 2017 to develop. You couldn't possibly name him as part of the starting back 6 for 2017 at this point.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Here's the thing, one on one defending is exactly what Langdon is rubbish at, not to mention he isn't exactly excels at anything other than occasional intercept marking. And I reckon you're confusing having plenty of time with slow decision making, he might not be getting done holding the pill but not seeing and utilising the first best option available is his glaring weakness.
Not the worst player on our list but very vanilla.

Right now he is a very poor man's Mackie and I can't see him improving enough to become someone we can't afford to lose.

I still think Langdon has plenty of potential in him. I agree regarding one on one defending and tbh, I'd like to see him played further up field once we have a settled and competent defensive line. IIRC he was used as a midfielder/winger during his last season of TAC and showed some real promise.

I think we should persevere with him as I'm interested in what more he can offer as he grows and is challenged. He's had big roles to fill since his debut and certainly has shown something. 2016 has just been full of set backs for him.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I still think Langdon has plenty of potential in him. I agree regarding one on one defending and tbh, I'd like to see him played further up field once we have a settled and competent defensive line. IIRC he was used as a midfielder/winger during his last season of TAC and showed some real promise.

I think we should persevere with him as I'm interested in what more he can offer as he grows and is challenged. He's had big roles to fill since his debut and certainly has shown something. 2016 has just been full of set backs for him.

I think he lacks pace to be played up the field. Who do you take out to play Langdon up the field anyway?

 

[Markfs]

we could probably trade him for the 10th best defender on the saints list..... or even nathan freeman

 

[NT.Thunder]

I think he lacks pace to be played up the field. Who do you take out to play Langdon up the field anyway?

That is the question

 

[NT.Thunder]

we could probably trade him for the 10th best defender on the saints list..... or even nathan freeman

Would only do this to keep the Nathan Freeman thread alive - no other reason.

 

[THATSGOLD]

That is the question

Daicos and Brown probably want to play more up the field next season. Add Swan can't see Langdon playing up the field.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Is the idea to drive our list profile to pre-pubescent levels? If so, then yes.

Look I think Langdon lacks urgency but he's very young and needs more exposure. Plus why would we sell now when he'd be better than any pick we'd get in return but 3 years older? If he was coupled up with another excess player to bring us into the first round you'd have a think.

You can either trade him for a player, or use the pick for a player.

Obvious, I know, but we do not need to draft another 18 year old with what would be a spec pick for Langdon.

 

[Hagla]

Personally, as Langdon is already 22 I see very little development left in him.

I think the major reason he went so late in the draft is he has a low ceiling but the plus side was that he's a safe bet and can play straight away.

I think his slow and laconic decision making and slow loopy kicking style won't ever be things that are fixed, plus his general lack of pace and agility is something that'll always be with him. He really needs to get back his elite intercept/contested marking he had in his 1st year otherwise he doesn't add much to the team

Little development left at 22?

Lets have a look at some players who are currently having break out years and are older than 22.

Seb Ross - 23
Jason Johanissen - 23
Tom Scully - 25
Scott Lycett - 23
Jarryd Lyons - 23
Tomas Bugg - 23
It's actually rare for a player to break out before 22 so I'm not sure how you can say there is little development left because he's 22 (he only turned 22 20 days ago btw).

There are heaps of established players who have increased their output post the age of 23 and there are so many of them I can't be bothered listing them all as I'd be here all day but a few that have been incredible this year are

Jarryd Waite - 67 (who would have guessed the potential was real and we'd only see it after he turned 30...)
Eddie Betts - 29 (been developing his game for a long time but just keeps getting better with age)
Patrick Dangerfield - 26

 

[THATSGOLD]

You can either trade him for a player, or use the pick for a player.

Obvious, I know, but we do not need to draft another 18 year old with what would be a spec pick for Langdon.

If we can get a guy like Walters on our list for Langdon maybe he can go play for Freo with his brother.

 

[THATSGOLD]

You can either trade him for a player, or use the pick for a player.

Obvious, I know, but we do not need to draft another 18 year old with what would be a spec pick for Langdon.

Trade for a Walters type and send Langdon to play with us Brother.

 

[mike123]

Don't understand why people think Howe will remain in defense when we have other players back from injury and available for selection.

I know you have me on ignore but, its because Howe is better than those injured defenders and every fit defender bar Reid. Its quite simple really.

 

[mike123]

If we can get a guy like Walters on our list for Langdon maybe he can go play for Freo with his brother.

Don't think Walters would leave WA.

 

[mike123]

Fyi in 5 yrs langdon will not just be a hb flanker. Most likely hbf, winger and mid. Just like scharenberg or williams or ramsay.

Its called options and versatility. Good clubs like hawthorn have those things

Langdon on the wing is even worse.

 

[Scodog10]

I've really struggled to see the dislike for Langdon. The kids still in his third year and has plenty of upside.

The other thing I struggle with is those that don't rate him or claim he's not best 22 in a team currently sitting 14th having an injury interrupted season and expecting to get good currency through a trade.

This is the element I can't wrap my head around in these types of discussions (Witts is another that fits this bill). You can't have it both ways which is why I'd keep hold of him. IMO, he's unfortunately worth more to us than we could recoup from trading him.

 

[Scodog10]

One thing I do like about Langdon which is the opposite to most on here is his unhurried laconic play. He has time and that's a great asset in a player . He is young and inexperienced and is learning to use it but he has it. I know at times he can be a bit heart in mouth as he sizes up his options. We in the stands are thinking kick it before you are caught. Funny thing is he never seems to be caught with ball in hand.

As time goes he will make better decisions but I like that he is learning and has the ability to use time. It is a trait of good players. The best exponents of time like Pendles, Hodge, Enright, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Murphy are the players that set teams up. He obviously won't be at those levels but maybe a bit of Malcevski or the like will see him one of our better playmakers at the club.

The Shaws have it also. Rhyce had time but we lost patience with allowing him to develop and learn to use it. Posters here bagged his early decision making furiously. Sydney reaped the rewards.

It's a tremendous asset to have with ball in hand if you have a good football brain, however it is a diabolical one when it is on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Unfortunately a player without urgency is living on borrowed time just ask Paul Seedsman, Trent Mackenzie or Jarrod Brennan who also share that laconic "too cool for school style".

 

[doodles98]

This is the element I can't wrap my head around in these types of discussions (Witts is another that fits this bill). You can't have it both ways which is why I'd keep hold of him. IMO, he's unfortunately worth more to us than we could recoup from trading him.

Nah. Other clubs aren't so stupid and short sighted that they will overlook a young player with good prospects because of a short term injury or dip in form. If we rate the player and their potential... so do other clubs.
Of course we don't trade anyone for anything less than their value to us.... you'd hope anyway. Langdon has better exposed form than Aish.. we traded 2 second rounders for Aish and yet half you guys are saying Langdon won't even get us one second rounder in a trade. Think again.

 

[Scodog10]

Nah. Other clubs aren't so stupid and short sighted that they will overlook a young player with good prospects because of a short term injury or dip in form. If we rate the player and their potential... so do other clubs.
Of course we don't trade anyone for anything less than their value to us.... you'd hope anyway. Langdon has better exposed form than Aish.. we traded 2 second rounders for Aish and yet half you guys are saying Langdon won't even get us one second rounder in a trade. Think again.

That's a side discussion to my point though. I'm talking about those that don't rate him, but expect to be showered with riches at the trade table if he were offered up. Exposed form only plays a small part and for mine those that rate him have over-inflated opinions of that form anyway. For me on exposed form he sits smack bang around JT circa 2014 in which case it could go either way...

 

[doodles98]

That's a side discussion to my point though. I'm talking about those that don't rate him, but expect to be showered with riches at the trade table if he were offered up. Exposed form only plays a small part and for mine those that rate him have over-inflated opinions of that form anyway. For me on exposed form he sits smack bang around JT circa 2014 in which case it could go either way...

18 clubs.. there will be more than one genuinely interested and who either have a list need or think they can get more out of a player than we have. Refer to us recruiting Jesse White from Sydney as an example... except that in that case we were the only suitor.

 

[BPikkers]

Nah. Other clubs aren't so stupid and short sighted that they will overlook a young player with good prospects because of a short term injury or dip in form. If we rate the player and their potential... so do other clubs.
Of course we don't trade anyone for anything less than their value to us.... you'd hope anyway. Langdon has better exposed form than Aish.. we traded 2 second rounders for Aish and yet half you guys are saying Langdon won't even get us one second rounder in a trade. Think again.

Agree

 

[Gone Critical]

It's a tremendous asset to have with ball in hand if you have a good football brain, however it is a diabolical one when it is on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Unfortunately a player without urgency is living on borrowed time just ask Paul Seedsman, Trent Mackenzie or Jarrod Brennan who also share that laconic "too cool for school style".

He is early in his career and developing. I don't see Seedsman, McKenzie or Brennan in him. Like a Rhyce Shaw who wasn't a finished product early days he has some strong characteristics. Learning the trade of holding the ball and making good decisions doesn't always come overnight. He should be allowed time to develop.

 

[Kappa]

Little development left at 22?

Lets have a look at some players who are currently having break out years and are older than 22.

Seb Ross - 23
Jason Johanissen - 23
Tom Scully - 25
Scott Lycett - 23
Jarryd Lyons - 23
Tomas Bugg - 23
It's actually rare for a player to break out before 22 so I'm not sure how you can say there is little development left because he's 22 (he only turned 22 20 days ago btw).

There are heaps of established players who have increased their output post the age of 23 and there are so many of them I can't be bothered listing them all as I'd be here all day but a few that have been incredible this year are

Jarryd Waite - 67 (who would have guessed the potential was real and we'd only see it after he turned 30...)
Eddie Betts - 29 (been developing his game for a long time but just keeps getting better with age)
Patrick Dangerfield - 26

Yes... well done.. you can cherry pick some players out of the entire league who improved after 22

I could then cherry pick the same list of players who haven't improved after 22 and we'd be exactly where we started... I said I don't think Langdon has much development left, not there are no players in the entire AFL who don't have development left at 22