Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[adogsfan5]

Yeah I understand the development of Sweet but you can’t both call for selection integrity and also call for Sweet to play ahead of Martin.

Schache not playing is disappointing but I can only assume he’s on the move, in which case I welcome him not playing (not a spite thing, we just need to do what’s best for us).

Lachie Hunter being in was a surprise. Wasn’t even an emergency last week if I remember correctly.

Garcia out is a bit annoying as well but he’s been fairly quiet so I get it.

I was only iffy on Martin as I had heard he pretty much retired earlier in the season but continued to train in case of a break glass emergency type situation but if he’s been good, then that’s fine.

 

[Golden_6]

I was only iffy on Martin as I had heard he pretty much retired earlier in the season but continued to train in case of a break glass emergency type situation but if he’s been good, then that’s fine.

It's interesting because we're a long way from that situation. We've rested Bruce, not picked Schache or Sweet and could've moved Darcy forward and kept Keath in the side. This is purely a form selection.

 

[Foxman98]

For those wondering Stef/Sweet/Schache last 3 weeks:

Casey:
Stef - 22 Disposals 5 Marks 7 Clearances 25 Hitouts 1 Goal
Sweet - 7 disposals 1 Mark 0 Clearances 31 Hitouts 0 Goals
Schache - 9 Disposals 3 Marks 0 Clearances 0 Hitouts 0 Goals

Werribee:
Stef - 14 Disposals 2 Marks 10 Clearances 28 Hitouts 0 Goals
Sweet - 12 disposals 2 Mark 2 Clearances 31 Hitouts 1 Goal
Schache - 11 Disposals 5 Marks 2 Clearances 4 Hitouts 3 Goals

Coburg:
Stef - 28 Disposals 9 Marks 8 Clearances 24 Hitouts 2 Goals
Sweet - 14 disposals 5 Mark 3 Clearances 21 Hitouts 2 Goals
Schache - 23 Disposals 9 Marks 1 Clearances 0 Hitouts 7 Goals

Stef destroys Sweet which eliminates him and has had a better 3 week block which means selection integrity is still fine having him over Schache

 

[gordo2016]

Someone should ask Bevo at a presser what the term "Selection Integrity" actually means. See what answer the dipstick comes up with.

 

[doggies ftw]

I swear I see you comment on the VFL game day threads. Are you watching those games and actually thinking Sweet is outplaying Martin?

Yeah I’m watching the games not just reading the stat sheets, Sweet has been undoubtedly more effective the past two weeks. Sure Martin had 28 disposals, 26 of them grabbing the ball out of the ruck and slamming it on the boot.

It’s not even about their VFL form though we all saw Martin in the seniors earlier in the year - bloke is cooked at the top level, it’s a completely different story in the 2s.

It was pretty much unanimously agreed on here that Sweet has gone past him at AFL level and we wasted 4 weeks on Martin when Sweet came in and held down the number one ruck spot much much more competently - short memories around here I spose

I guess I put more weight in recent exposed AFL level form than both their VFL form beating up on genuine plodders. Look if Martin was just injured and he now he is fully fit sure, but the blokes 36 lmao he’s a ticking time bomb why even take the chance when the upside is so little.

Either way I don’t care which ones in so long as they actually play first ruck - if he comes in and plays forward as expected

 

[Bald]

Yeah I understand the development of Sweet but you can’t both call for selection integrity and also call for Sweet to play ahead of Martin.

Schache not playing is disappointing but I can only assume he’s on the move, in which case I welcome him not playing (not a spite thing, we just need to do what’s best for us).

Lachie Hunter being in was a surprise. Wasn’t even an emergency last week if I remember correctly.

Garcia out is a bit annoying as well but he’s been fairly quiet so I get it.

Just realised this wasn’t the changes thread. Woops.

 

[Outback Footy]

Someone should ask Bevo at a presser what the term "Selection Integrity" actually means. See what answer the dipstick comes up with.

The "dipstick" who took us from basket case to premiers in 2 years and then to another granny which the boys led half way through the 3rd quarter? Is that the same bloke youre talking about?

Respect mate. Show some.

Without that "dipstick" were still wallowing with Saints as 1 cup losers with the longest drought in the league, 30,000 members and "irrelevance".

Dont you remember those days? I certainly fricken do. And I for one was sick of it.

Lay off bevo. Yes he makes some decisions which are hard to fathom but hes the most successful coach in our history. FFS. People do my head in sometimes.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

So emotionally connected fans can be blamed for Dunkley wanting out, twice in two years, for cash and a more professional working environment? And possibly a preferred paying role?

Are you a Dunkley family member, Norm?

Fans need to pull their heads out of their arses and let go of their inability to seperate their emotional connection to the club from another person making decisions that will shape their lives. Like any player coming out of contract Dunkley has the right to test the market every time that he is in this situation.

Just as the club retains the right to not renew their contract or walk players to the trade table at whenever they see fit. Lets not forget that after news broke last time that the club took the rational decision to name and stick to their price and wouldve traded Dunkley if Essendon had acquiesced to our demands for two first round picks. Not pick 7 and a future 2nd. A deal that is very unlikely to be topped this time around.

The amount of whining about Dunkley in here stands in stark contrast to the amount of glee I see when it comes to our alleged pursuit of Barass. Both players if they chose to leave their respective clubs could be seen as unloyal money hungry mercenaries by each clubs fan bases. But I guess its ok because Barass or any other high profile trade would be our money hungry mercenary.

Not that it really bothers me, but this is just another recent topic where I find myself out of step with the current orthodoxy of this board.

So I'll concede defeat, let it go and watch how things play out.

 

[doggies ftw]

Fans need to pull their heads out of their arses and let go of their inability to seperate their emotional connection to the club from another person making decisions that will shape their lives. Like any player coming out of contract Dunkley has the right to test the market every time that he is in this situation.

Just as the club retains the right to not renew their contract or walk players to the trade table at whenever they see fit. Lets not forget that after news broke last time that the club took the rational decision to name and stick to their price and wouldve traded Dunkley if Essendon had acquiesced to our demands for two first round picks. Not pick 7 and a future 2nd. A deal that is very unlikely to be topped this time around.

The amount of whining about Dunkley in here stands in stark contrast to the amount of glee I see when it comes to our alleged pursuit of Barass. Both players if they chose to leave their respective clubs could be seen as unloyal money hungry mercenaries by each clubs fan bases. But I guess its ok because Barass or any other high profile trade would be our money hungry mercenary.

Not that it really bothers me, but this is just another recent topic where I find myself out of step with the current orthodoxy of this board.

So I'll concede defeat, let it go and watch how things play out.

Why do you care tho?

Fans yell about players leaving their club on the internet, who gives a shit

 

[willofwest]

Fans need to pull their heads out of their arses and let go of their inability to seperate their emotional connection to the club from another person making decisions that will shape their lives. Like any player coming out of contract Dunkley has the right to test the market every time that he is in this situation.

Just as the club retains the right to not renew their contract or walk players to the trade table at whenever they see fit. Lets not forget that after news broke last time that the club took the rational decision to name and stick to their price and wouldve traded Dunkley if Essendon had acquiesced to our demands for two first round picks. Not pick 7 and a future 2nd. A deal that is very unlikely to be topped this time around.

The amount of whining about Dunkley in here stands in stark contrast to the amount of glee I see when it comes to our alleged pursuit of Barass. Both players if they chose to leave their respective clubs could be seen as unloyal money hungry mercenaries by each clubs fan bases. But I guess its ok because Barass or any other high profile trade would be our money hungry mercenary.

Not that it really bothers me, but this is just another recent topic where I find myself out of step with the current orthodoxy of this board.

So I'll concede defeat, let it go and watch how things play out.

Nicely said Norm.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Why do you care tho?

Fans yell about players leaving their club on the internet, who gives a s**t

I think its more those who consider Dunkley to be a dog for the fact he has been 'stringing' the club along all year. It hasn't hurt us at all in terms of re-signing any other out of contract player and Dunkley's performance has not suffered one bit. Some would argue it pisses off other players in the locker room but we can't blame the poor form of a lot of players on Dunkley not signing a deal. End of the day we would all do what Josh is doing even as diehard Doggies fans and sign for another team if they were offering us $500k more over the life of a contract. Its just sports.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Fans need to pull their heads out of their arses and let go of their inability to seperate their emotional connection to the club from another person making decisions that will shape their lives. Like any player coming out of contract Dunkley has the right to test the market every time that he is in this situation.

Just as the club retains the right to not renew their contract or walk players to the trade table at whenever they see fit. Lets not forget that after news broke last time that the club took the rational decision to name and stick to their price and wouldve traded Dunkley if Essendon had acquiesced to our demands for two first round picks. Not pick 7 and a future 2nd. A deal that is very unlikely to be topped this time around.

The amount of whining about Dunkley in here stands in stark contrast to the amount of glee I see when it comes to our alleged pursuit of Barass. Both players if they chose to leave their respective clubs could be seen as unloyal money hungry mercenaries by each clubs fan bases. But I guess its ok because Barass or any other high profile trade would be our money hungry mercenary.

Not that it really bothers me, but this is just another recent topic where I find myself out of step with the current orthodoxy of this board.

So I'll concede defeat, let it go and watch how things play out.

I don’t see much whining at all. I’d say it’s an almost split between those who wish him well and those who don’t. And even then, there’s only a few of us who wish he’d GAGF.

Out of interest, what would your view on it be if over the next 2-3 years we see the same behaviour from Bont, Naughts and Smith? Only using your reasoning that sympathy should be shown to players that want to look out for themselves and their future, you’d be ok to see more players do what Dunkley is doing?

 

[doggiesin08]

Yeah I’m watching the games not just reading the stat sheets, Sweet has been undoubtedly more effective the past two weeks. Sure Martin had 28 disposals, 26 of them grabbing the ball out of the ruck and slamming it on the boot.

It’s not even about their VFL form though we all saw Martin in the seniors earlier in the year - bloke is cooked at the top level, it’s a completely different story in the 2s.

It was pretty much unanimously agreed on here that Sweet has gone past him at AFL level and we wasted 4 weeks on Martin when Sweet came in and held down the number one ruck spot much much more competently - short memories around here I spose

I guess I put more weight in recent exposed AFL level form than both their VFL form beating up on genuine plodders. Look if Martin was just injured and he now he is fully fit sure, but the blokes 36 lmao he’s a ticking time bomb why even take the chance when the upside is so little.

Either way I don’t care which ones in so long as they actually play first ruck - if he comes in and plays forward as expected

Fair enough, I guess I'm viewing the VFL games differently (and was not part of that unanimous agreement on Sweet).

Agree that Martin needs to play ruck - he can play 60% TOG but none of it should be in the forward pocket.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Bevo is taking the P155 now. Recalls Martin for ruck support but leaves out Schach who kicked 7 and can support ruck with Timmy. Martin is terrible in the fwd line and only kicked two in the 2s because everyone forward of centre kicked a goal. Agree Keath needed to be dropped.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

He's been taking the p*** all season right from Round 1.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Someone should ask Bevo at a presser what the term "Selection Integrity" actually means. See what answer the dipstick comes up with.

'Pick my favourites regardless of form and do my best to f*** up the chances of winning'

 

[Charlie Bucket]

End of the day we would all do what Josh is doing even as diehard Doggies fans and sign for another team if they were offering us $500k more over the life of a contract. Its just sports.

No we wouldn’t.

Why do you think the other better players on our list are still at the club? Is it because they all got more $$$ to stay? You’d have to be kidding yourself if you think Bont and Co couldn’t have collected a lot more at another club.

Not all players are mercenaries like Dunks.

 

[gordo2016]

The "dipstick" who took us from basket case to premiers in 2 years and then to another granny which the boys led half way through the 3rd quarter? Is that the same bloke youre talking about?

Respect mate. Show some.

Without that "dipstick" were still wallowing with Saints as 1 cup losers with the longest drought in the league, 30,000 members and "irrelevance".

Dont you remember those days? I certainly fricken do. And I for one was sick of it.

Lay off bevo. Yes he makes some decisions which are hard to fathom but hes the most successful coach in our history. FFS. People do my head in sometimes.

I respect what he has done as much as anyone. My post is related to him using the term "Selection Integrity". Instead of using it, just say a player is out of form, that is why they were dropped for. If you are going to use "selection integrity," it needs to apply to everyone, not just who you pick and choose to apply it to. Yes, most successful coach in the clubs history, brilliant achievement. But now talks like someone who reeks of self importance and getting too smart for his own good.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Out of interest, what would your view on it be if over the next 2-3 years we see the same behaviour from Bont, Naughts and Smith? Only using your reasoning that sympathy should be shown to players that want to look out for themselves and their future, you’d be ok to see more players do what Dunkley is doing?

As a rule. I'll always be in favour of people exercising the rights that exist within the terms of their employment contract.

I don't care if you're a highly paid footballer or a contract cleaner.

 

[doggies ftw]

The "dipstick" who took us from basket case to premiers in 2 years and then to another granny which the boys led half way through the 3rd quarter? Is that the same bloke youre talking about?

Respect mate. Show some.

Without that "dipstick" were still wallowing with Saints as 1 cup losers with the longest drought in the league, 30,000 members and "irrelevance".

Dont you remember those days? I certainly fricken do. And I for one was sick of it.

Lay off bevo. Yes he makes some decisions which are hard to fathom but hes the most successful coach in our history. FFS. People do my head in sometimes.

On the other hand we’ve won a final under him in 2 seasons - 5 years apart - out of 8. With arguably the strongest list we’ve ever put together for a good chunk of those years.

Says more about our history than Bevo that he’s our most successful coach ever

 

[Foxman98]

Yeah I’m watching the games not just reading the stat sheets, Sweet has been undoubtedly more effective the past two weeks. Sure Martin had 28 disposals, 26 of them grabbing the ball out of the ruck and slamming it on the boot.

It’s not even about their VFL form though we all saw Martin in the seniors earlier in the year - bloke is cooked at the top level, it’s a completely different story in the 2s.

It was pretty much unanimously agreed on here that Sweet has gone past him at AFL level and we wasted 4 weeks on Martin when Sweet came in and held down the number one ruck spot much much more competently - short memories around here I spose

I guess I put more weight in recent exposed AFL level form than both their VFL form beating up on genuine plodders. Look if Martin was just injured and he now he is fully fit sure, but the blokes 36 lmao he’s a ticking time bomb why even take the chance when the upside is so little.

Either way I don’t care which ones in so long as they actually play first ruck - if he comes in and plays forward as expected

It was agreed that Sweet was better then a non fit Martin which is what we had earlier in the season he is killing him since then. You're acting as if its easy for Stef to get 28 touches then whats stopping Seeet doing the same? Stef is leaps and bounds ahead of Sweet and 2's level at this point you have to be related to Jordan because there is no way you can watch the last 3 weeks and advocate for him over Stef

 

[Dog 36]

It was agreed that Sweet was better then a non fit Martin which is what we had earlier in the season he is killing him since then. You're acting as if its easy for Stef to get 28 touches then whats stopping Seeet doing the same? Stef is leaps and bounds ahead of Sweet and 2's level at this point you have to be related to Jordan because there is no way you can watch the last 3 weeks and advocate for him over Stef

Martin playing is ok as he may need to be on the list next year as back up ruck.

 

[Dog 36]

I respect what he has done as much as anyone. My post is related to him using the term "Selection Integrity". Instead of using it, just say a player is out of form, that is why they were dropped for. If you are going to the term "selection integrity," it needs to apply to everyone, not just who you pick and choose to apply it to. Yes, most successful coach in the clubs history, brilliant achievement. But now talks like someone who reeks of self importance and getting too smart for his own good.

There is no selection integrity full stop.

 

[Foxman98]

Martin playing is ok as he may need to be on the list next year as back up ruck.

If Martin is on the list next year as Terry Wallace famously said " i'll spew up " but for the right here right now he is our best 2nd ruck which is an indictment on our list management and needs ti be addressed in the off season

 

[Dog 36]

If Martin is on the list next year as Terry Wallace famously said " i'll spew up " but for the right here right now he is our best 2nd ruck which is an indictment on our list management and needs ti be addressed in the off season

Lobb in we still need another ruck for backup next year as we may lose another one

 

[Foxman98]

Lobb in we still need another ruck for backup next year as we may lose another one

Sweets signed for 2 years and will have Bruce and Darcy as potential break glass options.