Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

Sweet has no value to you but he may have some value to someone in need of ruck and ruck depth and has value to us as he may be steak knives in a bigger picture deal especially when he is contracted to us.

He can have value to them all he likes if they don't satisfy what we need in a trade and we don't bring in a 2nd ruckman he will be held to his contract again he is contracted so him wanting to leave or another club wanting him is irrelevant to us if we don't have a suitable replacement which we currently don't have

 

[Dog 36]

He can have value to them all he likes if they don't satisfy what we need in a trade and we don't bring in a 2nd ruckman he will be held to his contract again he is contracted so him wanting to leave or another club wanting him is irrelevant to us if we don't have a suitable replacement which we currently don't have

Agree unless like I said he is not steak knives to someone or something we really want.

 

[Foxman98]

Agree unless like I said he is not steak knives to someone or something we really want.

He's a a back up ruckman at best none one will pay more then a pick in the 60s for him

 

[Dog 36]

He's a a back up ruckman at best none one will pay more then a pick in the 60s for him

No at Pick 60 he is worth more to us than the pick but

Hypothetical - We want Barrass for instance if WC include Sweet as part of the deal and we are happy with everything else Do you do it?

If Yes you are a ruck down (regardless of what you think of his ability as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc ruck) on your list.

 

[Foxman98]

No at Pick 60 he is worth more to us than the pick but

Hypothetical - We want Barrass for instance if WC include Sweet as part of the deal and we are happy with everything else Do you do it?

If Yes you are a ruck down (regardless of what you think of his ability as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc ruck) on your list.

Of course you do in that situation he is a back up ruck at best they're not that hard to replace but we need to ensure if we do we have one to come in

 

[Charlie Bucket]

He's saying openly what pretty much every uncontracted (or as we know even many contracted) players do on a regular basis. How does that make him a mercenary? He hasn't actually left. Jong made the mistake of appearing at Pies HQ with media knowledge. Chris Grant openly considered an offer from Port at the end of 96, didn't affect his standing. Dustin Martin toured GWS facilities - I bet no Tigers supporters were thinking about that each time he did a victory lap after a GF. Also the link with multiple clubs is media speculation - may be his manager feeding them, but again many players/managers do it. It is his right to test the market. The bolded is laughable. All of it.

This is the SECOND TIME in two years he’s looked at possibly moving on. He’s doing it for a fatter contract. He’s a ****ing disloyal mercenary mate. Fair enough if you’re happy for him to go down this path. But don’t pretend what he’s doing is just standard for every player in the comp.

All those players you mentioned decided that staying at the club they were at was the right choice. A perfect example of loyalty over self interest. A concept some struggle to comprehend the importance of.

 

[Dale4captain]

This is the SECOND TIME in two years he’s looked at possibly moving on. He’s doing it for a fatter contract. He’s a ******* disloyal mercenary mate. Fair enough if you’re happy for him to go down this path. But don’t pretend what he’s doing is just standard for every player in the comp.

All those players you mentioned decided that staying at the club they were at was the right choice. A perfect example of loyalty over self interest. A concept some struggle to comprehend the importance of.

Wait, so let’s get this right.

Hypothetically:

The company you have been working for for the last 7 years offers to renew yoir contract. Similar rates as what you’re currently on, you don’t mind the company, you’ve had good years, you’ve had bad years. You don’t always get on with your boss and you’ve had friction with some of your colleagues but the place is pretty good if not mildly stale in its approach to business.

A second company comes along. Offers you a 20% raise. It’s in another city. Similar longevity in contract and promises you the corner office space you’ve wanted for a few years. You don’t know the folks you’ll be working with but you get told that you’ll lead your division and have some genuine say and direction in how it operates.

You’d stick with the original company?

Answer honestly.

 

[dergert]

Carlton are apparently into Fischer McAsey

3

Fischer Mcasey

Age

24

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.8

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

3star

MG

102.3

2star

D

6.8

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

MG

102.3

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

114.8

2star

 

[Foxman98]

Carlton are apparently into Fischer McAsey

Kid just looks like an average player at best really hasn't developed at all

 

[Anja_Nees]

Reckon in a year or two Darcy will be able to give some relief in the ruck, particularly against other backup ruckmen. I don’t think he’ll take as long to fill out as Tim.

Will be interesting to see where he plays long term. Great intercept skills but potentially a great ruck forward. Probably won’t go into the ruck if playing back.

 

[TiAn_]

It's entirely possible if Dunkley wants to move it's for a more pivotal midfield role and a different environment. Or because he is a huge fan of ecclesiastical architecture and the Barossa. Or is yet another spongy floor enthusiast.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Wait, so let’s get this right.

Hypothetically:

The company you have been working for for the last 7 years offers to renew yoir contract. Similar rates as what you’re currently on, you don’t mind the company, you’ve had good years, you’ve had bad years. You don’t always get on with your boss and you’ve had friction with some of your colleagues but the place is pretty good if not mildly stale in its approach to business.

A second company comes along. Offers you a 20% raise. It’s in another city. Similar longevity in contract and promises you the corner office space you’ve wanted for a few years. You don’t know the folks you’ll be working with but you get told that you’ll lead your division and have some genuine say and direction in how it operates.

You’d stick with the original company?

Answer honestly.

I really dislike these types of hypotheticals and comparisons.

Being a professional AFL player isn’t anything like most other jobs. And it certainly isn’t comparable to an office job or similar as your question suggests.
There’s a whole lot more to why players would stay at their current club than what would keep a normal Joe Blow at his. Most people couldn’t give too ****s about their work or employers. Most do it specifically for the pay check. Because let’s be honest, there wouldn’t be many of us in here that get paid enough to not jump at the chance for a 20% pay rise.

None of this matters though because it’s a silly comparison.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Wait, so let’s get this right.

Hypothetically:

The company you have been working for for the last 7 years offers to renew yoir contract. Similar rates as what you’re currently on, you don’t mind the company, you’ve had good years, you’ve had bad years. You don’t always get on with your boss and you’ve had friction with some of your colleagues but the place is pretty good if not mildly stale in its approach to business.

A second company comes along. Offers you a 20% raise. It’s in another city. Similar longevity in contract and promises you the corner office space you’ve wanted for a few years. You don’t know the folks you’ll be working with but you get told that you’ll lead your division and have some genuine say and direction in how it operates.

You’d stick with the original company?

Answer honestly.

In the real world, what would the rate be for employees who turn down a 20% pay rise to move companies? Probably almost zero you’d say?

And what would the rate be in the AFL? It would be pretty high I reckon? You don’t see many players move on, particularly the well paid ones.

Does this give you some idea why the comparison doesn’t work?

 

[Mofra]

No at Pick 60 he is worth more to us than the pick but

Hypothetical - We want Barrass for instance if WC include Sweet as part of the deal and we are happy with everything else Do you do it?

If Yes you are a ruck down (regardless of what you think of his ability as 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc ruck) on your list.

As part of the Barass deal?
Yes, provided we find backup elsewhere

 

[LittleG]

As part of the Barass deal?
Yes, provided we find backup elsewhere

We would need a second rounder for a decent ruck prospect this year. Probably 3 likely to go in that range.

 

[Mofra]

We would need a second rounder for a decent ruck prospect this year. Probably 3 likely to go in that range.

State league DFA signing? Ballendon as a back up who can also pinch hit forward.

 

[dergert]

Are clubs going to start using the mid season draft as a chance to bring in talent rather than top up or fill in their list due to injury?

I'm of the view we should take at least one selection into to upcoming drafts.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think Dunks has learnt to drive a hard bargain, probably from his dad. He can’t very well talk enthusiastically about his future at the club when their is a stalemate on the negotiations. I am confident that a compromise will be reached and he will stay.

If you look at Port, it will be an upheaval to move. The coach is not popular and likely to get the chop over the next 12 months and they are an unbalanced side that only plays well at home, as long as it is not a final. Not a tantalising prospect.

Essendon, hung him and his brother out to dry two years ago. Same situation with the coach, they look miles off it, and the supporters have become very abusive to the players. It is a bigger club, and it is in Melbourne, but the negatives outweighs the positives.

Negatives for the dogs is a crazy but successful coach, good team mates Adz, Bont etc. A game plan that even the players can see is shite, young elite talent coming through. Hopefully the good outweigh the negative.

 

[Sentinel]

If we're in the search for a longer term key defender type, what about Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

at Collingwood? Can't get into the side after injuries and form for a few years but is still young and a decent size, needs to put some more muscle on though.

 

[Mofra]

If we're in the search for a longer term key defender type, what about Will Kelly at Collingwood? Can't get into the side after injuries and form for a few years but is still young and a decent size, needs to put some more muscle on though.

Is he a legitimate KPD or a 'third' type?
Pretty sure in an interview earlier in the season Power mentioned we'd look for a gorilla type. Interesting that Payne has been recalled for Brisbane in Adams' absence. Might be a game worth watching.

 

[Doggy]

If we're in the search for a longer term key defender type, what about Will Kelly at Collingwood? Can't get into the side after injuries and form for a few years but is still young and a decent size, needs to put some more muscle on though.

Father sons would be hard to get. Didn't think he was that good?

 

[Sentinel]

Is he a legitimate KPD or a 'third' type?
Pretty sure in an interview earlier in the season Power mentioned we'd look for a gorilla type. Interesting that Payne has been recalled for Brisbane in Adams' absence. Might be a game worth watching.

Borderline between the two I think. He's definitely not a gorilla and needs to add bulk, so more of a longer term option. Definitely is a work in progress but would come cheap if Collingwood were willing to let him go, after 3 games in 3 seasons.

 

[Mofra]

Borderline between the two I think. He's definitely not a gorilla and needs to add bulk, so more of a longer term option. Definitely is a work in progress but would come cheap if Collingwood were willing to let him go, after 3 games in 3 seasons.

I'm just wondering if he'd replicate what we already have with Cordy who we can re-sign on a base salary or near to it to help our cap.
TOB is a similar size too and has played more football in recent years.

 

[Sentinel]

I'm just wondering if he'd replicate what we already have with Cordy who we can re-sign on a base salary or near to it to help our cap.
TOB is a similar size too and has played more football in recent years.

True, difference being that Cordy and probably O'Brien are known quantities in that we wouldn't expect either to really improve from what they already offer.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Wait, so let’s get this right.

Hypothetically:

The company you have been working for for the last 7 years offers to renew yoir contract. Similar rates as what you’re currently on, you don’t mind the company, you’ve had good years, you’ve had bad years. You don’t always get on with your boss and you’ve had friction with some of your colleagues but the place is pretty good if not mildly stale in its approach to business.

A second company comes along. Offers you a 20% raise. It’s in another city. Similar longevity in contract and promises you the corner office space you’ve wanted for a few years. You don’t know the folks you’ll be working with but you get told that you’ll lead your division and have some genuine say and direction in how it operates.

You’d stick with the original company?

Answer honestly.

You want to play silly hypotheticals?
You get brought into a company, you are taken under the wing by the CEO, he shows confidence in you to put you on a team that is taking on a big project, and the project is a massive success.
You take a lot of time off sick leave yet whenever you come back the CEO puts you straight back into the team working on the big project, but the project suffers because you aren't performing at your best.
Then the other members of your team vote to make you one of the leaders on the project.
Then you demand to leave the business for another business despite being under contract and despite being a lead on the project.
The CEO refuses and you make an excuse that it was because you were sad because of covid and he really likes working for the company.
Now you go to lunch with the new guy who was kicked out his company.
You get sick again but the CEO keeps putting you on the big project and you aren't performing well. You are carried by the rest of your team to the end of the project but you were so bad the other team members couldn't finish the project.
The company offers you another contract, great money for many years, despite you having serious limitations to your abilities. You are great at one or two things but suck at most other things, but the CEO love you.
When your contract runs out, will you leave for a bit more money and a slightly nicer view or will you show loyalty to the guy who made you?

What actually makes a football club and makes them worth supporting?
Who would Chris Grant be to you if he left for Port Adelaide for double the money?
What’s the difference between 600k and 700k? Bugger all when you understand how money works and you can turn it into as much as you want. It’s also bugger all when you are Josh Dunkley and when other players are congratulating their team mates on milestones on instagram, he’s flogging his free haircuts, ready made meals and dozens of other endorsements.

**** Josh Dunkley. Beveridge showed confidence in him as a first year player with serious limitations to play roles in a team that won us a premiership. He’s been seriously injured more than once and Beveridge has shown confidence in Dunkley to bring him straight back into the team, to the detriment of the team. Players showed confidence in him as a 5th year player to make him part of the leadership group, only 6 months later for him to have a sook and demand a trade to a club down the road with 2 years left on his contract. Him sooking resorted to the Dogs going to a captain-vice captain setup in 2021 with no additional players in the leadership group to avoid the embarrassment of removing this clown from it. Now, he sits on the outside of group huddles, holding his new best buddy’s hand. He tried to set the narrative after the failed trade, saying it was because of covid and isolation... yet here we are.