Recruiting Trade/Draft Talk III - Zaharakis for a SIG BET?

[Killer_Mike]

Just curious, who do you think is more important to the team? Zach Merrett or Joe Daniher?

Joe but he's already ours.

My assumptions are based on current personal not if starting a team from scratch.

 

[TheGrizz]

Would I be wrong in saying that Sloane, Bont, Fyfe, Martin, Gray, Ablett, Dangerfield are the best midfielders in the game? 5 of the 6 are players who have heavy rotations forward of center.

"Pure mids" as a concept is stupid and I will call anyone who says otherwise out on it. Having the flexibility to play these guys anywhere is more important

I would correct you in saying Selwood, Pendlebury, J. Kennedy Cripps and maybe Hannebery and Ward are in that conversation and aren't notable forward options (Kennedy maybe if any).

It is certainly helpful and preferable to have a multi positional aspect I agree, but I would certainly take any of those guys I mentioned regardless. I think that's what people mean.

 

[Killer_Mike]

My personal thoughts are that Daniher, Stewart and Francis is enough to take us forward for the next ten years up front.

Then we have Ambrose, Hartley, Brown and Hurley down back.

Hurley in my opinion should be our only concern at this point but for me I would address that later because mids will propel us up the ladder a lot faster and they will also help us to stay there when we get there.

As Hawthorn and other clubs have done you address specialist positions through trading and free agency.

Essendon in my opinion will be a destination club again sooner rather than later.

 

[TheGrizz]

I wouldn't want Grundy or Gawn though for the price that they would cost!

I think the talls we have now are good enough. The ruck is an issue but I believe with more time and a better quality midfield that will be fixed.

We have to remember that the whole center square arrangement has only played together for 8 rounds.

We continue to build our midfield and that includes getting experience into the ones we have and we are in premiership mode in two years in my opinion.

Wouldn't want to waste trade capital on a mature ruckman at the moment now. Leuey and Tbell can cover the immediate need at the moment. Would rather take another developing option on top of draper late in the draft/rookie to take a develop, as the majority of ruck men turn out to be.

Only reason I would go ruck early in the draft would be for forward/ruck combo such as Coleman-jones. Early pure ruck picks such as Hayes have the odds stacked against them.
For every Grundy there is multiple longer, leuenberger (been handy but hardly worth pick 4), Ayce Cordy and vickery picks. Would rather use that pick on a mid.

 

[quotemokc]

Might not have to worry about a KPD if Mason Fletcher is AFL quality

 

[MightyDons4]

Pure mids are exactly what we don't want. A player who can only play one position on the ground? Pass.

I think B4L was suggesting we go after natural midfielders rather than choosing flankers and attempting to convert them.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Wouldn't want to waste trade capital on a mature ruckman at the moment now. Leuey and Tbell can cover the immediate need at the moment. Would rather take another developing option on top of draper late in the draft/rookie to take a develop, as the majority of ruck men turn out to be.

Only reason I would go ruck early in the draft would be for forward/ruck combo such as Coleman-jones. Early pure ruck picks such as Hayes have the odds stacked against them.
For every Grundy there is multiple longer, leuenberger (been handy but hardly worth pick 4), Ayce Cordy and vickery picks. Would rather use that pick on a mid.

I don't know much about Coleman-Jones but my thoughts with those types of players is how they fit into a system?

Joe is an exceptional case of a ruckman size forward because of not only what he can do in the air but more so his running patterns.

If this Colemen-Jones guy has that in his arsenal then I would take him. But if he is in the Tippet mold or even Jenkins I would pass.

 

[TheGrizz]

Wasn't referring to Coleman jones on a preferred basis.

Only as an example to the fact that a player that could play ruck and forward would be the only reason I would take a ruckman in he first round at all.

I used Coleman joneses an example as he is the only one this year around that mark, I have no idea any more than his position and what DPS has said as to his value.

 

[efcboy]

Might not have to worry about a KPD if Mason Fletcher is AFL quality

And then when Heppell retires Max Fletcher takes his spot in the team

 

[WEEVZ]

I get what you are saying but I'm of the belief that its not all about the personal its also about systems.

I like the talls we have now and most of them are young and still have improvement.

If our midfield starts clicking then we can be anything.

I don't disagree. Just saying our ruck and key forward stocks aren't good and that its been an issue that has needed addressing for years but keeps getting ignored.

Leuenberger is good around and decent in winning the hit-outs but is useless up forward, and he's injury prone and given he's 29 next month the sooner we find a replacement the better because his body won't hold out much longer I don't think.

Bellchambers is also decent in terms of hitouts but is horrible around the ground. And as a forward while he provides a solid marking target he certainly isn't dynamic.

As for the other options; Daniher is a key forward first and foremost and in all honesty he's not really any good in the ruck, Stewart is a solid 2nd ruck/KPF but I wouldn't want him being the primary ruckman, McKernan consistently makes mistakes in the ruck and gives away stupid free kicks because he can't compete physically, and Draper is a mile away from being ready.

 

[WEEVZ]

Just curious, who do you think is more important to the team? Zach Merrett or Joe Daniher?

Daniher by a country mile. Merrett is bloody good, but Daniher is becoming something special.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Daniher by a country mile. Merrett is bloody good, but Daniher is becoming something special.

I agree.

From what I've seen of Stewart as well I think we have more than enough firepower.

If Francis comes on as expected then we will be hard to stop!

 

[Killer_Mike]

I don't disagree. Just saying our ruck and key forward stocks aren't good and that its been an issue that has needed addressing for years but keeps getting ignored.

Leuenberger is good around and decent in winning the hit-outs but is useless up forward, and he's injury prone and given he's 29 next month the sooner we find a replacement the better because his body won't hold out much longer I don't think.

Bellchambers is also decent in terms of hitouts but is horrible around the ground. And as a forward while he provides a solid marking target he certainly isn't dynamic.

As for the other options; Daniher is a key forward first and foremost and in all honesty he's not really any good in the ruck, Stewart is a solid 2nd ruck/KPF but I wouldn't want him being the primary ruckman, McKernan consistently makes mistakes in the ruck and gives away stupid free kicks because he can't compete physically, and Draper is a mile away from being ready.

Yeah, but as suggested by others ruckman you can get from other sources.

Other than Grundy most ruckman are traded in from other clubs or even come up off the rookie list.

I just believe that if we want to go up the ladder fast its through midfielders that it will happen.

 

[ghostdog]

My personal thoughts are that Daniher, Stewart and Francis is enough to take us forward for the next ten years up front.

Then we have Ambrose, Hartley, Brown and Hurley down back.

Hurley in my opinion should be our only concern at this point but for me I would address that later because mids will propel us up the ladder a lot faster and they will also help us to stay there when we get there.

As Hawthorn and other clubs have done you address specialist positions through trading and free agency.

Essendon in my opinion will be a destination club again sooner rather than later.

I can understand looking at Francis as a player to take us forward, given his draft year rank. Your confidence in Stewart is admirable though.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I can understand looking at Francis as a player to take us forward, given his draft year rank. Your confidence in Stewart is admirable though.

I can see what you mean because he's only played one game for us.

I look at football a little different than just players and stats though.

I'm looking at it from a system perspective and how that player fits into it.

I have seen Stewart quite a bit this year and what he does well is run to position! For me that is his primary role. If he takes marks and kicks goals then that's obviously good as well but he is just a part of the machine!

With two talls like Joe and Daniher running up and down the wings its creating space for other guys to run into! And then obviously guys like Walla and Fantasia and hopefully Francis can come into it.

I don't look at teams as names on a page but cogs in a machine.

 

[ghostdog]

I can see what you mean because he's only played one game for us.

I look at football a little different than just players and stats though.

I'm looking at it from a system perspective and how that player fits into it.

I have seen Stewart quite a bit this year and what he does well is run to position! For me that is his primary role. If he takes marks and kicks goals then that's obviously good as well but he is just a part of the machine!

With two talls like Joe and Daniher running up and down the wings its creating space for other guys to run into! And then obviously guys like Walla and Fantasia and hopefully Francis can come into it.

I don't look at teams as names on a page but cogs in a machine.

If only! The link ups would be guaranteed!

I'm interested to know what people think of Ryan Burton (who I don't recall seeing play) as opposed to Stewart. I heard some good things about him on the weekend, playing as a defender though. HFC have him listed as a forward.

 

[WEEVZ]

Yeah, but as suggested by others ruckman you can get from other sources.

Other than Grundy most ruckman are traded in from other clubs or even come up off the rookie list.

I just believe that if we want to go up the ladder fast its through midfielders that it will happen.

Fair enough I think it's through a mixture of both. Which is why I hope we find a way to add a 2nd first rounder to our picks this year. If by some miracle he added another top 10 pick (if we finished around 12th or so), I'd really want Hayes and Fogarty. Hayes as the 2nd ruck and forward partner to Daniher, and Fogarty who looks like being the next Fyfe/Bont/Cripps.

 

[Skipper_]

If only! The link ups would be guaranteed!

I'm interested to know what people think of Ryan Burton (who I don't recall seeing play) as opposed to Stewart. I heard some good things about him on the weekend, playing as a defender though. HFC have him listed as a forward.

Plus they'd be able to hug each other all game long!

 

[Snake Charmer]

Does anyone know how Jeremy Goddard is going in the WAFL this season?

 

[Killer_Mike]

I don't disagree. Just saying our ruck and key forward stocks aren't good and that its been an issue that has needed addressing for years but keeps getting ignored.

Leuenberger is good around and decent in winning the hit-outs but is useless up forward, and he's injury prone and given he's 29 next month the sooner we find a replacement the better because his body won't hold out much longer I don't think.

Bellchambers is also decent in terms of hitouts but is horrible around the ground. And as a forward while he provides a solid marking target he certainly isn't dynamic.

As for the other options; Daniher is a key forward first and foremost and in all honesty he's not really any good in the ruck, Stewart is a solid 2nd ruck/KPF but I wouldn't want him being the primary ruckman, McKernan consistently makes mistakes in the ruck and gives away stupid free kicks because he can't compete physically, and Draper is a mile away from being ready.

I think if Joe was played in the ruck he could be the best in the AFL if his body could handle it long term.


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[eth-dog]

Does anyone know how Jeremy Goddard is going in the WAFL this season?

Averaging 30 hitouts in the reserves.

 

[efcboy]

I can see what you mean because he's only played one game for us.

I look at football a little different than just players and stats though.

I'm looking at it from a system perspective and how that player fits into it.

I have seen Stewart quite a bit this year and what he does well is run to position! For me that is his primary role. If he takes marks and kicks goals then that's obviously good as well but he is just a part of the machine!

With two talls like Joe and Daniher running up and down the wings its creating space for other guys to run into! And then obviously guys like Walla and Fantasia and hopefully Francis can come into it.

I don't look at teams as names on a page but cogs in a machine.

What I like about Stewart is his pace - what worked well against Geelong is that we had 3-4 very quick players playing forward in Stewart, Fantasia, tippungwuti, Colyer whilst Daniher, green have OK pace with hooker being the only plodder. What I liked was a paddock type setup where the forwards dragged the defenders up past CHF leaving an open forward 50m that our fast guys like Stewart, Tippa, Fantasia could run into. This created a number of goals and was exciting to watch. I hope they can continue to play this well and use our strengths moving forward.

 

[Eleven 38]

I think if Joe was played in the ruck he could be the best in the AFL if his body could handle it long term.


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Sam Jacobs had 70 hitouts on the weekend and his side lost by 7 goals.

I don't think putting your best players in the ruck fulltime is a good idea at all. Joe just has to be played forward.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Sam Jacobs had 70 hitouts on the weekend and his side lost by 7 goals.

I don't think putting your best players in the ruck fulltime is a good idea at all. Joe just has to be played forward.

Yeah, totally agree.

If you read my posts above you will see what I think of rucks.


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[Yoda_]

Only way Jackets goes for a ruck (early) is if we simply dont rate Draper. From what i understand, the club has big wraps on the kid and rightly so.

If we go tall early, it will be a genuine KPF not a pseudo fwd/ruck. We've a plethora of them already on our list.

Would hope that we can nab a Jake Carlisle type steal tall in the second round and grab a dominant inside mid with our first.