Analysis Trades that didn't work out for the player

[Duckimus Prime]

Ablett to Gold Coast or Judd to Carlton which one was the bigger mistake?

During Chris Judd's time at Carlton

Carlton finished 11, 7, 8, 5 (5th after finals, lost semi to West Coast), 10, 8* (6th after finals), 13, 18#
Eagles finished 15, 11, 16#, 4, 5, 13, 9, 2

# - Wooden Spoon
* - 2013 when Carlton finished 9th but replaced Essendon in the finals

So Carlton played finals 4 times, West Coast 3 times. Both won a wooden spoon. But West Coast also had a second last finish.
West Coast lost a Grand Final in Judd's final year.

Didn't work out too bad for Judd. Its not like the Eagles were any better.

 

[Colonial]

Correct but for the player? Depends on Buddy’s motives. If it was for money then it was always going to be a success. If it was to avoid the Melbourne media attention then probably not so good, and if it was to achieve premierships then a monumental failure.

Financially he is set and if he is happy in his home life, especially without the dumpster diver media hounding him, I'm sure he thinks it's a success.
I'm sure a flag would be amazing but it's more a cherry on top when you think about the whole thing.

 

[Scotland]

During Chris Judd's time at Carlton

Carlton finished 11, 7, 8, 5 (5th after finals, lost semi to West Coast), 10, 8* (6th after finals), 13, 18#
Eagles finished 15, 11, 16#, 4, 5, 13, 9, 2

# - Wooden Spoon
* - 2013 when Carlton finished 9th but replaced Essendon in the finals

So Carlton played finals 4 times, West Coast 3 times. Both won a wooden spoon. But West Coast also had a second last finish.
West Coast lost a Grand Final in Judd's final year.

Didn't work out too bad for Judd. Its not like the Eagles were any better.

That's a bit of a flawed comparison because he wasn't playing for the team that he left.

Cleveland won 50 games in the NBA last year with LeBron James and 19 this year without. The Lakers won 35 without LeBron and then 37 with. Did he make the right move because Cleveland fell? Cleveland plus a fit LeBron this year make the playoffs.

Judd's move was ultimately unsuccessfu for the player l because Carlton never hit any great heights during his time there. He left WC at 24 years old and his best result in 8 seasons was 14 wins and 5th one year. He played excellent football for the first 4-5 years of that time before injuries caught up with him but in that period Victorian clubs won the 08, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 flags. St Kilda and WB also made GFs and prelims respectively. So he backed the wrong horse in that respect.

2008-2015 wasn't a great period in WC history by any means but we did make a prelim in 2011 and a GF in 2015. That's two higher peaks than Carlton got to. At the conclusion of Judd's time at Carlton they were back where they started on field while we were in a GF and have since played finals 3 more years in a row and won a flag. Carlton have, well everyone knows that. We would've followed a different path had he stayed but I doubt reflecting on his whole career Judd judges his time at Carlton based on what WC did during that period. He chose to move back to Victoria and our fortunes were irrelevant.

The biggest failure of the Carlton trade is on the club. When you recruit a player of his calibre you want it to translate to success. Geelong haven't won a flag with Danger but they've been a top 4 side and are currently flying. Sydney have made two GFs with Buddy.

 

[brett15]

Wasn't he a Free Agent?

Like many others are listing....

ahh yep, my bad

 

[The 747]

Troy Menzel - Did he ever actually end up playing for the Crows?

At the time me (and many others) thought that trade was madness but Carlton proved to be the evil geniuses in hindsight.

 

[Captain_Bender]

That's a bit of a flawed comparison because he wasn't playing for the team that he left.

Cleveland won 50 games in the NBA last year with LeBron James and 19 this year without. The Lakers won 35 without LeBron and then 37 with. Did he make the right move because Cleveland fell? Cleveland plus a fit LeBron this year make the playoffs.

Judd's move was ultimately unsuccessfu for the player l because Carlton never hit any great heights during his time there. He left WC at 24 years old and his best result in 8 seasons was 14 wins and 5th one year. He played excellent football for the first 4-5 years of that time before injuries caught up with him but in that period Victorian clubs won the 08, 09, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 flags. St Kilda and WB also made GFs and prelims respectively. So he backed the wrong horse in that respect.

2008-2015 wasn't a great period in WC history by any means but we did make a prelim in 2011 and a GF in 2015. That's two higher peaks than Carlton got to. At the conclusion of Judd's time at Carlton they were back where they started on field while we were in a GF and have since played finals 3 more years in a row and won a flag. Carlton have, well everyone knows that. We would've followed a different path had he stayed but I doubt reflecting on his whole career Judd judges his time at Carlton based on what WC did during that period. He chose to move back to Victoria and our fortunes were irrelevant.

The biggest failure of the Carlton trade is on the club. When you recruit a player of his calibre you want it to translate to success. Geelong haven't won a flag with Danger but they've been a top 4 side and are currently flying. Sydney have made two GFs with Buddy.

Add 2011 Judd to the 2011 Eagles side they just might won the flag that year, granted if Judd stayed West Coast wouldn't have had Kennedy

 

[atlaser]

Brendan Fevola to the Lions owns this thread-
View attachment 687860

Fev's career panning out the way it did is one f the great footy tragedies. played in a shithouse Carlton unit for years and then got flicked out of the league while still in his prime. Absolute monster. Ought to have plugged 1000+ and gone down as an all timer

 

[Anja_Nees]

Ryan Griffen, injuries got the better of him at GWS.
Malcheski (spelling?) heading north from the swans didn't seem to work for him either
Alan Jackovich to the bulldogs was a disaster

Well Jacko wasn’t strictly a trade. We drafted him...at pick f’ing 9.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Most of Freos...

 

[iBeng]

Preuss going from #2 behind a 31 year old to #1 behind a 28 year old was... interesting.

From our perspective Brad Ebert is the only player that things have really worked out for. Sinclair also going ok at the Swans. Scott Selwood, Matt Rosa, Ben McKinley, Koby Stevens never really hit great heights.

Sharrod Wellingham went backwards coming in. Was part of the mid/fwd rotation at the Pies and ended up playing half back for one good season in four before being delisted.

Razzle Dazzle DALZIEL!

 

[ManOfClay]

Crameri to dogs from Essendon

 

[threesixpio]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/buddys-regret.1177345/

 

[shaqsuns]

Gary Ablett jnr.

I’m sure Geelong could have worked overtime to find Gary sponsorships in Victoria to make up the difference in pay Gold Coast we’re offering.

Not only did Ablett waste several years of his prime for a team with no premiership ambitions, but he developed the image of being a slightly crazy religious bloke who isolated himself from teammates and slacked off at the end of his contract to force a trade home.

If interviewed one day he would probably trot out the “no regrets” line but his Gold Coast stint was a massive mistake.

I kinda agree with this.

Like I loved that he came up here and helped grow the Aussie Rules the brand, but if he stayed at Geelong he would still be a 2 or 3 time Brownlow medalist, most likely would of been a big player in the 2011 premiership and to cap it all off he might not of had a career ending injury that derailed his confidence in his body.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blitzer]

If there’s one thing that stands out to me, it is that players shouldn’t chase more playing time or a bigger role elsewhere

So many guys have come into Carlton in the last few years on that premise. Fact is though, if you are a fringe player in a top or middle rung team, you are still a fringe AFL standard player in a bottom team. In fact, your deficiencies are going to stand out more because the team has less experienced vets to cover you, and losing just puts a spotlight on things. And the team is rebuilding and ready to hand your spot to a kid who might improve...

Take Alex Fasolo. Not playing at Collingwood because others competing for his spot were better at defensive pressure, fitter, and in better form. Comes to Carlton, rather than working hard to get better. But in a shite team, there’s more turnovers and long bombs inside 50. Small forwards spend more time defending and running defensively, and god it’s hard to find form as a forward in a struggling team - no Joe the Gooses to get you going, no blowout wins to jag a late one, etc. Fasolo has looked even worse, and then you lose and become a scapegoat.

Definite lesson - if you a fringe player, stat where you are and fight your way in, or try to find a better team who wants you for a specific role. Don’t chase the easy option at the bottom because it won’t work

I agree with most of this but there are exceptions. Firstly rucks are a total exception, you can easily be the second best ruck at your club and be getting no games and go somewhere else and be first ruck and do really well for yourself. I'd suggest Witts as a great example. Was never gonna be first ruck ahead of Grundy but going really well even at a bottom club. Secondly predicting struggling teams is not an exact science (Eagles weren't even in most people's top 8's preseason last year) and there's only so many spots in the top teams.

Totally agree for midfielders, half forwards/backs etc. Much better off improving yourself first and yes sometimes playing in struggling teams will make you look considerably worse. Particularly for small forwards.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Hence the sponsorships part of my post. Judd was able to get himself a nice Visy deal and Geelong should have been working overtime to find GAJ something similar.

I'm pretty sure that was banned or major restrictions were introduced following the Judd deal.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

a trade that didn't work out was Jeff Hogg to Fitzroy and from memory we got Paul Broderick Michael Gale and Matthew Dundas.....certainly didn't work out for Hoggy or Fitzroy.....

Went from a more than handy ff t o a fb.

 

[The Warlord]

Buckley

Hahaha, yep.

 

[00Stinger]

Brendan Fevola to the Lions owns this thread-
View attachment 687860

that didnt work out for Brisbane.

Fev the dickhead got what he desrved

Sent from my SM-A505YN using Tapatalk

 

[TheLoungeLizard]

Jetta was shaky early, but has turned that around beautifully

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Does Cam McCarthy belong in this thread or he is just a player who didn't kick on, not kicking on at a different club?

He kicked 35 goals as a 20-year-old, in his 2nd season, and I wouldn't say he's a better today at 24.

 

[kozi]

Ablett

 

[Firestarter]

Ablett

I think he got exactly what he wanted -- money, captaincy, less spotlight.

 

[Benno_900]

I vaguely remember North downgrading a top 10 pick to a pick in the late teens to acquire some West Coast spud.

Then we used that pick to bring in Jon Hay.

Brilliant move all round. Hay was virtually sacked mid-season.

 

[Benno_900]

During Chris Judd's time at Carlton

Carlton finished 11, 7, 8, 5 (5th after finals, lost semi to West Coast), 10, 8* (6th after finals), 13, 18#
Eagles finished 15, 11, 16#, 4, 5, 13, 9, 2

# - Wooden Spoon
* - 2013 when Carlton finished 9th but replaced Essendon in the finals

So Carlton played finals 4 times, West Coast 3 times. Both won a wooden spoon. But West Coast also had a second last finish.
West Coast lost a Grand Final in Judd's final year.

Didn't work out too bad for Judd. Its not like the Eagles were any better.

Based on that, West Coast would have won 1 or 2 more flags if he stayed there.

 

[ronpingwins]

I vaguely remember North downgrading a top 10 pick to a pick in the late teens to acquire some West Coast spud.

Then we used that pick to bring in Jon Hay.

Brilliant move all round. Hay was virtually sacked mid-season.

I think it was #13 to #17 to acquire the great Daniel McConnell. West Coast used 13 to draft a slider in Shannon Hurn. Win win for both clubs.