"Training The House Down"

[theGav56]

I don't get why the number of kicks you get is relative to how effective you are when the ball is bounced at the start of a quarter or after a goal.

Yeah. What you'd have to do is compile the stats of a player when competing against the established centre square ruckmen, especially Sandilands and Cox, and ignore any stats against the 2nd ruckmen in teams, and then compare.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Yeah. What you'd have to do is compile the stats of a player when competing against the established centre square ruckmen, especially Sandilands and Cox, and ignore any stats against the 2nd ruckmen in teams, and then compare.

Considering Naitanui took the vast amount of CB hit-outs for WC, certainly in the back half of the season - i'm guessing he probably got the lion share of 1st ruckmen, and Cox the other way around.

Sarcasm and ridiculous exaggeration aside, your point has validity and just shows why the merits of pure statistics is highly questionable when not in context.

And if you think your square metre of turf is as important as a stoppage that occurs in the least congestion, 30 times per game - more power to you!!

Back to the OP - has something happened to Morabito - is he not back into full training yet?

Also Fyfe?

 

[DockerLand1]

I don't get why the number of kicks you get is relative to how effective you are when the ball is bounced at the start of a quarter or after a goal.

All those stats show is he is not the best ruckman in the league - which I doubt anyone would disagree with. I mean Todd Goldstein taking a mark on the wing and kicking a ball has what relevance to how effective he was at the centre square tap-out?

Can you please explain to me how you would manage to get the ball out of the Centre if you are a ruckman without getting a Hit Out, a clearance a kick or a handpass?
​

What it doesn't show is how effective any of the ruckmen are when the ball was bounced in the centre square.

I;e effective clearances, cb clearances won versus lost etc. (by the team when X is rucking at the time)

So what you guys are saying is that despite other ruckmen getting more hit outs, more clearances, more kicks and handpasses-NicNats are better in every aspect and he is the best in the centre square despite having so few possessions and less than 4 clearances in a game ​

I take it that you missed the game where Sandi racked up 20 clearances vs Geelong. That is over 5 times what Nic Nat averages per game against the best side in the comp.
​

I know that this is getting tiresome for some on here but I want you delusional Weagles fans to prove what you are stating. Show me proof or flock off back to your own silly board!!!

 

[wild side]

I'd say 211 when fit and firing is the no. 1 ruck in the comp.
He may also be the most valuable player in the comp, when fit and firing.
He is a clearance machine, and that is one of the biggest kpi's they look for these days.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

So what you guys are saying is that despite other ruckmen getting more hit outs, more clearances, more kicks and handpasses-NicNats are better in every aspect and he is the best in the centre square despite having so few possessions and less than 4 clearances in a game ​

I take it that you missed the game where Sandi racked up 20 clearances vs Geelong. That is over 5 times what Nic Nat averages per game against the best side in the comp.
​

I know that this is getting tiresome for some on here but I want you delusional Weagles fans to prove what you are stating. Show me proof or flock off back to your own silly board!!!

No what I am saying in none of those stats relate to what happens at the centre square. Not one of those stats show me how many of those kicks/handpasses or clearances were won at the centre square.

Do you not understand that? Do you not realise that those stats relate to what happens over 120 minutes of football all over the ground - as opposed to what happens at the centre square 30 times per game?

In respect to Sandi's game against geelong - have a look at the main board to get my thoughts on that - one of the most epic games of football played.

In terms of statistical evidence to support an argument - there was a stat that related to a ledger of whether a team won the ball out of the middle from centre square bounces and who was rucking at the time. So if you were rucking and your team won the ball out - your got +1, if your team lost you got -1.

From memory it only assessed the finals ruckmen (though I could be wrong). Regardless, that had Naitanui so far in front it wasn't funny. Cox and Jolly as an example were miles behind.

Edit: Found a link

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...n-the-afl-finals/story-e6frf3e3-1226129475711

 

[theGav56]

Considering Naitanui took the vast amount of CB hit-outs for WC, certainly in the back half of the season - i'm guessing he probably got the lion share of 1st ruckmen, and Cox the other way around.

Sarcasm and ridiculous exaggeration aside, your point has validity and just shows why the merits of pure statistics is highly questionable when not in context.

And if you think your square metre of turf is as important as a stoppage that occurs in the least congestion, 30 times per game - more power to you!!

Back to the OP - has something happened to Morabito - is he not back into full training yet?

Also Fyfe?

Yeah. Great points. Really strengthen the claim you are making.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

No what I am saying in none of those stats relate to what happens at the centre square. Not one of those stats show me how many of those kicks/handpasses or clearances were won at the centre square.

Do you not understand that? Do you not realise that those stats relate to what happens over 120 minutes of football all over the ground - as opposed to what happens at the centre square 30 times per game?

In respect to Sandi's game against geelong - have a look at the main board to get my thoughts on that - one of the most epic games of football played.

In terms of statistical evidence to support an argument - there was a stat that related to a ledger of whether a team won the ball out of the middle from centre square bounces and who was rucking at the time. So if you were rucking and your team won the ball out - your got +1, if your team lost you got -1.

From memory it only assessed the finals ruckmen (though I could be wrong). Regardless, that had Naitanui so far in front it wasn't funny. Cox and Jolly as an example were miles behind.

Edit: Found a link

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...n-the-afl-finals/story-e6frf3e3-1226129475711

look, i think you will find, that 99.9% of freo supporters agree that natanui is a great young talent and would agree that we would prefer him on our list than not... but take the me for example and the following:

1. this is a dockers board

2. I hate the eagles and everything about them

3. every second day there is a NN puff piece in the west or on the news... (like last night on channel eagle, when there was a story about NN having lost a dredlock for a drug test and he wasnt happy about it... i mean FFS!)

all of these contribute to the responses you are getting right now.

consider the following questions, adn i will answer truthfully and without a hint of sarcasm etc

1. is natanui a freak athlete?- yes

2. would i like natanui in my team?- yes

3. is natanui going to be the best ruck in the comp at some point?- i believe so yes, but not in the next 3 years

4. who would i chose out of natanui and ballantyne? begrudgingly natanui, but i love ballantyne and standby the fact that he has won more games for us than natanui has for you.... at this stage

5. would i trade hill for natanui? never in this lifetime, i honestly believe that hill will be the better player and a much more valuable aquisition, that is my honest to god opinion.

6. would i trade fyfe for natanui- see answer to question 5

7. would i trade zac clarke for NN- yes i would trade zac for NN

 

[Quinz]

So what you guys are saying is that despite other ruckmen getting more hit outs, more clearances, more kicks and handpasses-NicNats are better in every aspect and he is the best in the centre square despite having so few possessions and less than 4 clearances in a game ​

I take it that you missed the game where Sandi racked up 20 clearances vs Geelong. That is over 5 times what Nic Nat averages per game against the best side in the comp.
​

I know that this is getting tiresome for some on here but I want you delusional Weagles fans to prove what you are stating. Show me proof or flock off back to your own silly board!!!

Only 1 ruckman in 2011 had more clearances than Naitanui, and that was Cox. In 2010, he had the most of any ruckman. He was also second in contested possessions (behind Cox). Those are key indicators for work in the centre and ruck. You'd suspect Sandilands would be ahead playing a full season however.

He was also forth in contested marks this year, despite taking only 50 marks in total. He was fifth in total possessions, ahead of a lot of "football smart" ruckmen. Third in tackles, fifth for goals kicked.

More damaging in the middle and forward of centre than most ruckmen in the competition this year. And he's already replacing a current and 5-time AA ruckman as our preferred option in the centre square. He might get undue hype for his potential, but his current performance, if anything, is underrated. Mostly I think it's poor understanding of his game style, and it comes from football writers as well as fans.

Some interesting career numbers between Ballantyne and Naitanui

Games: Ballantyne 44, Naitanui 55

Marks per game: Ballantyne 3.2, Naitanui 1.7 (WTF, LMFAO)

Here's an equally useless stat.

Tackles in 2011
Naitanui 88
Ballantyne 53

Mr. Forward Pressure being out-tackled by a guy two foot taller than him?

your dillusional. even at his best there is no way NN will ever be the best player in the comp. he is good, but has never been and will never be that good

I'll take Pendlebury's word, if it's all the same

"He jumps that high in the contest, he actually hits it out of the zone where the inside midfielders are and brings the forward flankers and the wingers into the game.

"I have no doubt in a few years he'll be the best player in the business."





Oh, and who is training well at Freo then?

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Only 1 ruckman in 2011 had more clearances than Naitanui, and that was Cox. In 2010, he had the most of any ruckman. He was also second in contested possessions (behind Cox). Those are key indicators for work in the centre and ruck. You'd suspect Sandilands would be ahead playing a full season however.

He was also forth in contested marks this year, despite taking only 50 marks in total. He was fifth in total possessions, ahead of a lot of "football smart" ruckmen. Third in tackles, fifth for goals kicked.

More damaging in the middle and forward of centre than most ruckmen in the competition this year. And he's already replacing a current and 5-time AA ruckman as our preferred option in the centre square. He might get undue hype for his potential, but his current performance, if anything, is underrated. Mostly I think it's poor understanding of his game style, and it comes from football writers as well as fans.


Here's an equally useless stat.

Tackles in 2011
Naitanui 88
Ballantyne 53

Mr. Forward Pressure being out-tackled by a guy two foot taller than him?


I'll take Pendlebury's word, if it's all the same

"He jumps that high in the contest, he actually hits it out of the zone where the inside midfielders are and brings the forward flankers and the wingers into the game.

"I have no doubt in a few years he'll be the best player in the business."





Oh, and who is training well at Freo then?

wake up. ive been winding you idiots up for two days now, look at my last post for my real thoughts... and by the way, who's board are you guys on?

 

[Lach72]

So anyway, head to the pre-season thread...