Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[Chief]

And there's merit in that.

And if someone competent investigates the methodology and data and finds it lacking, then it's worth bringing up.

But the first thing you see from the same old people is "well I bet that it wasn't what I would call hate" as if that is the most important thing.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

And there's merit in that. Unless you're a moral absolutist, you have to recognise that people have different standards, because of course they do. It's evident everywhere, all the time. Therefore the definitions of what constitutes an act of hate towards someone is up for discussion, and therefore so is the validity of the published results.

If a conservative think tank published a report on conservatives being victims of hate crimes or some similar thing, I am 100% certain those against them would question it in the same way.

Why do conservatives hate trans people?

 

[ShanDog]

And if someone competent investigates the methodology and data and finds it lacking, then it's worth bringing up.

But the first thing you see from the same old people is "well I bet that it wasn't what I would call hate" as if that is the most important thing.

It kind of is the most important thing if that's the foundation of the report.

 

[ShanDog]

Why do conservatives hate trans people?

I dunno, ask them.

 

[Chief]

It kind of is the most important thing if that's the foundation of the report.

So some third party who follows all the far right entertainment YouTubers like Rogan and Shapiro, THEIR opinion about each individual instance of hate speech and abuse is what matters?

Nah.

 

[ShanDog]

So some third party who follows all the far right entertainment YouTubers like Rogan and Shapiro, THEIR opinion about each individual instance of hate speech and abuse is what matters?

Nah.

Show me where I said anything of the sort.

 

[Chief]

But the first thing you see from the same old people is "well I bet that it wasn't what I would call hate" as if that is the most important thing.

Your response: "It kind of is the most important thing if that's the foundation of the report."

Not at all. Honestly I don't care what some dork somewhere glued to billionaire-backed far-right American weirdos thinks is "hate". They're soaking in it and they wouldn't recognise it. Their hip-fire hot take on whether this report is maybe valid is absolutely irrelevant.

If they brought up some knowledgeable, dispassionate person's view with proof that it was a bad study then I'd consider it.

But my opinion is irrelevant to them anyway.

 

[Gralin]

Reports of physical violence also rose in the report.

 

[Chief]

Reports of physical violence also rose in the report.

Well mate their definition of violence might not be mine so the report is probably invalid.

 

[Gralin]

Well mate their definition of violence might not be mine so the report is probably invalid.

We should explore that further. Here's what was in the report so you can judge whether you would define any of it as violence.
Tagging it for those that don't want to read

Spoiler

We could of course do this with the in person and online hate with the people that argue the definition is wrong but let's try this first

 

[Chief]

We could of course do this with the in person and online hate with the people that argue the definition is wrong but let's try this first

Mate. MATE!

The Italians said touching ISN'T assault if it lasts less than 10 seconds.

Who are we to argue with the country next door to the country that calls itself the cradle of civilization and stuff? I think any fair-minded Breitbart reader would agree with me that this report is now Officially DebunkedTM.

 

[Chief]

But seriously, this is horrendous shit. Just in case anyone takes my sarcasm above as my actual view and cancels me.

 

[Gralin]

But seriously, this is horrendous s**t. Just in case anyone takes my sarcasm above as my actual view and cancels me.

You mean the mob has to disperse without cancelling you?

 

[Chief]

You mean the mob has to disperse without cancelling you?

It's not like I want that. I haven't had a good cancelling in days, bro.

 

[ShanDog]

Your response: "It kind of is the most important thing if that's the foundation of the report."

Not at all. Honestly I don't care what some dork somewhere glued to billionaire-backed far-right American weirdos thinks is "hate". They're soaking in it and they wouldn't recognise it. Their hip-fire hot take on whether this report is maybe valid is absolutely irrelevant.

If they brought up some knowledgeable, dispassionate person's view with proof that it was a bad study then I'd consider it.

But my opinion is irrelevant to them anyway.

Ok I see. My comment about the validity of the definitions was completely disconnected from the "who" that you asserted.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

But seriously, this is horrendous s**t. Just in case anyone takes my sarcasm above as my actual view and cancels me.

Are we getting to the point where chat boards like this actually need [sarcasm]sarcasm[/sarcasm] tags?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Are we getting to the point where chat boards like this actually need [sarcasm]sarcasm[/sarcasm] tags?

Orange font I thought was the way to indicate sarcasm

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Just watched the Spotlight show on ch 7 featuring transgender adolescents. While there are several questions around the use and ongoing effects of puberty blockers I was somewhat unsurprised to find it overwhelmingly unbalanced in favour of conservative viewpoints.

I'm going to watch it again when it bobs up on 7 plus but for now I'll say that there is room for dissent. There is room for exploration and an acknowledgement that transitioning may not be the ideal solution for everyone. I tend to believe that gender (not biological sex) can be seen as a spectrum and accept that some individuals may display both male and female aspects without opting for reassignment.

I also believe that we're NEVER going to get this right until we see how it goes with select groups under medical scrutiny. Some will say it's harmful. Some will say it's fine. None of us will know until we have the data to study.

 

[DaTBird187]

Just watched the Spotlight show on ch 7 featuring transgender adolescents. While there are several questions around the use and ongoing effects of puberty blockers I was somewhat unsurprised to find it overwhelmingly unbalanced in favour of conservative viewpoints.

I'm going to watch it again when it bobs up on 7 plus but for now I'll say that there is room for dissent. There is room for exploration and an acknowledgement that transitioning may not be the ideal solution for everyone. I tend to believe that gender (not biological sex) can be seen as a spectrum and accept that some individuals may display both male and female aspects without opting for reassignment.

I also believe that we're NEVER going to get this right until we see how it goes with select groups under medical scrutiny. Some will say it's harmful. Some will say it's fine. None of us will know until we have the data to study.

It was slightly interesting until that trainwreck of an interview at the end. The reporter is a giant twat.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

It was slightly interesting until that trainwreck of an interview at the end. The reporter is a giant twat.

Yeah. That definitely left a bad impression on me.

 

[Chief]

Are we getting to the point where chat boards like this actually need [sarcasm]sarcasm[/sarcasm] tags?

That's what was meant to be but people take offense when I add that after calling them a Nazi.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

That Spotlight thing last night was disgusting. Just an open invite for scumbags and bigots to spout their hate, post airing judging by the water-cooler talk at my office this morning.

 

[Gralin]

That Spotlight thing last night was disgusting. Just an open invite for scumbags and bigots to spout their hate, post airing judging by the water-cooler talk at my office this morning.

never forget this is the group that did a sympathy interview for Bruec Lerhman and the channel owned by Stokes who funded BRS defamation case

its a conservative program on a conservative network owned by a conservative billionaire

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

never forget this is the group that did a sympathy interview for Bruec Lerhman and the channel owned by Stokes who funded BRS defamation case

its a conservative program on a conservative network owned by a conservative billionaire

Yep.

Sadly it means that the great unwashed feel safe coming out of the gutter for a while. They can hide behind Spotlight whilst it is topical.

F***ing grubs.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Watching the Spotlight show again now on 7 plus. The presenter's name is Liam Bartlett. I think that transitioning, as in full reassignment, is not the solution for eveyone. Among all the stories the Spotlight show highlights all I see is pain. People wondering where they fit in in life and so desperately unhappy with who they were at the time.

Some such as Courtney couldn't deal with how the hormones were making them feel and ultimately decided it wasn't worth it for them. Understandable. Others sought assurance from voices online and thought a permanent solution would solve that confusion only to reconsider later. Again, understandable.

There are no easy solutions, as each person is at a different stage and in a different mindset. There is no 'all one way or the other' on a spectrum and so there are no 'one solution fits all' answers to be found here.

The thing is, for many it IS the answer. I read that in the US an extreme minority regret transitioning;

What data shows about transgender detransition and regret

Medical professionals who provide gender-affirming care typically have a pre-surgery process in which patients undergo psychological and physical assessments.

www.newsweek.com

6/17/23

...In 2021, a study published by Mary Ann Liebert, Inc., which publishes peer-reviewed research, looked into the reasons for past detransition among TGD (Transgender and Gender Diverse) people in the United States. Researchers surveyed 27,715 TGD adults, including 17,151 people (61.9 percent) who said they had gender-affirming treatment, with 2,242 (13.1 percent) of them reporting a history of detransitioning. However, the majority of those who detransitioned (82.5 percent) said their decision was influenced by external factors such as family pressure and societal stigma.

"A total of 15.9% of respondents reported at least one internal driving factor, including fluctuations in or uncertainty regarding gender identity," the study from 2021 read.

Researchers added that "clinicians should be aware of these external pressures, how they may be modified, and the possibility that patients may once again seek gender affirmation in the future...

"

For every story of regret how many stories of success?

It is a tough situation regarding age, I admit. At twelve years of age how many of us can say we want permanent change in life? I think there is scope for more non-permanent gender exploration at that age, but what of parents who refuse to even acknowledge that transitioning may be a solution for their son or daughter's pain? Are the parents' beliefs then detrimental to their child's overall welfare?

What happens then?

Again, there are no 'one solution fits all' answers here. And there won't be any solutions to find at all unless there is raw data to study. Practical as well as academic. To know if a solution is wrong or right one must have examples to learn from.