Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Real bottom of the barrel stuff now...

I can't believe you all side with mass shooting gun extremists.

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www.trtworld.com

We side with human rights for all, not criminal actions. Transgender inclusion in sport will only be settled by the science, but that necessitates transgender inclusion for the study period.

 

[owen87]

It's not unscientific.

Why? Because it's logical.

Without logic, science doesn't exist.

Note. I'm not suggesting ROGD meets the technical definition of "syndrome" or a clinical diagnosis. I'm saying there's something at the core of the idea that is clearly true- there's some kind of social contagion element, social factors, that explain the rapid rise of young girls identifying as trans.

Is it logical?

You're relying on anecdotal evidence, usually lacking in much or any context, filtered through the lens of whatever media you read.

It's a bit like the 'overnight sensation' in sport. Usually that overnight sensation has actually been in the sport for a decade or more and you just haven't heard of them before.

Chances are the 'rapid onset' is actually a long period of time prior that very few people, maybe not even close family, have been aware of the internal turmoil going on.

Fortunately, these young people can seek actual medical professionals such as psychologists that can help work with them to identify the kinds of things they're struggling with and suggest various coping strategies, treatments, or pathways that will help them.

Unless we're also pretending that young kids turn up at the doctor, say they're feeling a bit off, and the doctor says 'you're trans, here's some hormone blockers' which... isn't what happens.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Some of the above comments are just abysmal.

Dragging nazism into the conversation is an admission you're losing the argument.

But the Neo-Nazis have imposed themselves on the debate by participating in anti-transgender gatherings and rallies.

 

[SnakeMan86]

We side with human rights for all, not criminal actions. Transgender inclusion in sport will only be settled by the science, but that necessitates transgender inclusion for the study period.

Oh OK, but we side with Nazis.
We can be guilty by association but your side can't be. Seems about right

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Oh OK, but we side with Nazis.
We can be guilty by association but your side can't be. Seems about right

Are Nazis supporting our argument? No. Are they supporting yours? Yes. Seems straighforward to me.

 

[SnakeMan86]

Are Nazis supporting our argument? No. Are they supporting yours? Yes. Seems straighforward to me.

And gun toting mass shooters are supporting yours. Real moral high ground.

 

[Gough]

Oh OK, but we side with Nazis.
We can be guilty by association but your side can't be. Seems about right

You know what Nazis want to do to LGBTQI people right, it's written in history. Surely you can understand why as a community we're a little twitchy about seeing them out and about anywhere, and fairly unforgiving of people who tolerate their presence.

 

[SnakeMan86]

You know what Nazis want to do to LGBTQI people right, it's written in history. Surely you can understand why as a community we're a little twitchy about seeing them out and about anywhere, and fairly unforgiving of people who tolerate their presence.

I do. And it's disgusting. But no one here is condoning Nazism. No one in here is saying "and while your at it burn the jews". No one is siding with them. Just because they are attaching themselves doesn't make anyone here a nazi apologist.

Did we go out and recruit Nazis? No. It's like the bloody hipsters that sided with the tradies during lockdowns and marched through the streets in there brand new Hi Vis,

Some groups just attach themselves to a side as an excuse to excite violence. You can't make people guilty by association unless they are condoning the actions.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

And gun toting mass shooters are supporting yours. Real moral high ground.

Bomb threats were made to stop several Drag Queen Storytime events. They may have only been threats but still, children were at these events. If Storytime went ahead what might have happened?

Violence here

‘Disappointing’: Monash Council cancels drag queen story time event

The council says it can’t guarantee it can host the library event safely after escalating intimidation from neo-Nazis and threats of violence against families, the performer, councillors and council staff.

www.theage.com.au

Bomb threats in the US

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www.usnews.com

Brooklyn library’s Drag Story Hour moved after bomb threat

The Cortelyou branch of the Brooklyn Public Library received bomb threats Saturday shortly before it was supposed to host a Drag Story Hour for kids.

nypost.com

 

[the_interloper]

But the Neo-Nazis have imposed themselves on the debate by participating in anti-transgender gatherings and rallies.

Yeah I mean while they seem to have the same opinion of transgender people, surely you'd want to distance yourself from the Nazis, because well they're Nazis. Tell em to piss off from your rally would be a start I'd reckon.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I do. And it's disgusting. But no one here is condoning Nazism. No one in here is saying "and while your at it burn the jews". No one is siding with them. Just because they are attaching themselves doesn't make anyone here a nazi apologist.

Did we go out and recruit Nazis? No. It's like the bloody hipsters that sided with the tradies during lockdowns and marched through the streets in there brand new Hi Vis,

Some groups just attach themselves to a side as an excuse to excite violence. You can't make people guilty by association unless they are condoning the actions.

Your side hasn't categorically rejected Neo-Nazi 'help'. We categorically reject the method of school shootings and violent intimidation of athletes as ways to further our cause.

 

[SnakeMan86]

Bomb threats were made to stop several Drag Queen Storytime events. They may have only been threats but still, children were at these events. If Storytime went ahead what might have happened?

Violence here

‘Disappointing’: Monash Council cancels drag queen story time event

The council says it can’t guarantee it can host the library event safely after escalating intimidation from neo-Nazis and threats of violence against families, the performer, councillors and council staff.

www.theage.com.au

Bomb threats in the US

Loading…

www.usnews.com

Brooklyn library’s Drag Story Hour moved after bomb threat

The Cortelyou branch of the Brooklyn Public Library received bomb threats Saturday shortly before it was supposed to host a Drag Story Hour for kids.

nypost.com

Good point.
So when it happens on your side we can ignore it, but when it happens on our side it's an example of how violent we are.

 

[Gough]

Good point.
So when it happens on your side we can ignore it, but when it happens on our side it's an example of how violent we are.

The trans rights crowd aren't being infected at a structural level by a bunch of fashy losers though.

 

[Kram]

Yeah I mean while they seem to have the same opinion of transgender people, surely you'd want to distance yourself from the Nazis, because well they're Nazis. Tell em to piss off from your rally would be a start I'd reckon.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

And gun toting mass shooters are supporting yours. Real moral high ground.

For balance, are you going to post articles about the trans people that have been murdered by your side?

Or is your moral crusade just bullshit?

 

[SnakeMan86]

For balance, are you going to post articles about the trans people that have been murdered by your side?

Or is your moral crusade just bullshit?

Congratulations again on missing the point.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Congratulations again on missing the point.

No, I deliberately didn't mention your nazi friends.

 

[ShanDog]

#LetWomenSpeak (2023) ~vs~ #WomenWillSpeak (2024) in Naarm/Melbourne

Yeah so anyway, Michelle Uriarau (AKA the co-founder of the ‘Women’s Action Group’ and ‘Mana Wāhine Kōrero’) organised an anti-trans rally on Saturday on the steps of …

slackbastard.anarchobase.com

If this is all accurate, it's crazy and I've no idea why they would be ok with associating with people like that.

Is it? If known Neo-Nazis start flocking to your rallies and you don't tell them 'thanks but no thanks' that means you tolerate their presence. Tolerating the presence of Neo-Nazis means you tolerate their presence in society knowing FULL WELL what they stand for.

This cannot stand.

Yep, true. This group is undermining themselves.

 

[ShanDog]

If this is all the case - it's all biologically determined until society and the environment gets in the way - what are the baseline gender expressions?

If they exist, is it possible to determine what they should be for the population? For an individual?

I guess there's what you could call 'baseline sex behaviours' (not gender expressions). They would be associated with the differences in biochemistry and biological functions between males and females. However, nothing is separate from it's environment, and for humans that also includes the social.

The problem with your second question is that all behaviours and myriad other human phenomena are a bell curve when talking about population-size perspectives. You can only make general observations, e.g. on average, males are taller than females.

 

[PJays]

The problem with your second question is that all behaviours and myriad other human phenomena are a bell curve when talking about population-size perspectives. You can only make general observations, e.g. on average, males are taller than females

Spot on.

There are certain behaviours, preferences, tendencies and interests which are more typical of males or females. For example “girls like people, boys like things” is a stereotype based in thorough study of human behaviour from almost the moment of birth. There are also significant physical biological differences between males and females. However those are only averages. There will always be individual females taller than the average male. There will always be individual males whose behavioural tendencies and interests are more "feminine" ie: typical of females and vice versa.

And the bell curve displaying typical female behaviour and preferences is wider and flatter than the bell curve displaying typical male behaviour and preferences. There are more masculine girls than there are feminine boys. This helps explain why so many girls are now identifying as “trans". Many are just non-typical girls, which are more numerous than non-typical boys.

The problem is, parents, teachers, community leaders are being told- No, if they're "identifying" as another "gender", you must never question it. You must never ask whether they're just a young female (or young male) who sits on one end of the behavioural bell curve. You must assume they have this "gender identity" which is permanently different to their "assigned sex" (an oxymoron).

As a society we've accepted that notions of "gender", and self-described inner feelings of adolescents take primacy over the fact of biological sex. We ignore the science demonstrating biological sex differences. We've associated certain tendencies and roles as being what makes you a woman/man instead of being things that are just more typical of women/men due to biology. Any resistance to this ideology makes you a "transphobe" or a bigot.

It's utterly absurd, and historians will be amazed at this particular element of our current era.

 

[Gralin]

If this is all accurate, it's crazy and I've no idea why they would be ok with associating with people like that.

its accurate

there are a couple of things at play as far as I can tell

1 - We're talking about real single issue people in these organisers of the anti trans rallies

whether its last years one with KJK or this years one without her

the main drivers behind these groups and rallies literally only care about being anti trans

nothing else matters to them, some like KJK are pretty open about it, have said many times they will work with anyone that agrees with them on this one issue because they consider this the number one issue

others I think are a little in denial about that and don't believe that its happening, they can't understand why a misogynist nazi would jump on the bandwagon of saving women from the trans agenda

for the first group denying the nazi links is just politically smart and expedient

for the second group its almost necessary for them to believe the movement and the first group are pure in their intentions

because it all starts to unravel when you realise actual hate groups are siding with you

 

[PJays]

because it all starts to unravel when you realise actual hate groups are siding with you

This is such disingenuous BS

The obvious reply is that hate groups attach themselves to many causes

Take the Palestine rallies. Many Islamists, hizb ut tahrir types, antisemites attend those rallies. If you're just a person concerned for the human rights of starving Palestinian children and want a ceasefire, should you stay home simply because actual "hate groups are siding with you?"

If you thought the government overreached in 2021 with their vaccine mandates and were over-riding human rights (a view subsequently validated by the Queensland Supreme Court), should you have stayed home, due to the presence of far- right people, some of whom brought nooses or hate to those rallies?

Many causes find hate groups attached to the cause. It's what hate groups do.

 

[Chief]

Real bottom of the barrel stuff now...

I can't believe you all side with mass shooting gun extremists.

Loading…

www.trtworld.com

KJK equivalent you reckon?

 

[the_interloper]

And before you ask, I don't follow women's darts normally, this is an interesting situation though. Darts is non-contact but a reaction like this can't be good for the sport. You'd think those born as a man wouldn't have an advantage?

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www.news.com.au

 

[owen87]

And before you ask, I don't follow women's darts normally, this is an interesting situation though. Darts is non-contact but a reaction like this can't be good for the sport. You'd think those born as a man wouldn't have an advantage?

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www.news.com.au

Bottom of the article says they need to meet hormone level requirements too.