you knew something was going to happen
Warne/McGrath/Gilchrist
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Gough
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- Sep 29, 2006
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- #53
Which spinner was better than Warne, bearing in mind the degree of difficulty that comes with leggies? For mine he's not just the best spinner I've seen, he's the best cricketer, full stop. He could have changed the game, if anybody had been able to replicate what he did.
Given Warne rates Lehmann, Lee, Fleming, Boon, Merv Hughes (18), Mark Waugh (12) and Ian Healy (10) as not only better players than Steve Waugh but in the top 25 greatest cricketers of all time, I think Steve Waugh is entitled to rate Gilchrist ahead of Warne.
Warne's a bit of a toss. No doubt sour that he didn't get captaincy, or even VC.
You could see another Glenn McGrath come along, and you can imagine another Adam Gilchrist at some point in time, but it's very difficult to think we'll ever see a leggie with the devastating skills of Warne again. Before his shoulder began to show signs of wear and tear, his flipper was amazing. To be able to pitch the ball so far up and maintain the rip off the pitch as he did was one of the most incredible things I've seen in cricket.
I think Keeping ability is always slightly over-rated in importance. Sure, a good keeper might get you a chance or two in a test match that an average keeper might miss - but equally, a good slip fielder can make the same difference (obviously, a keeper gets a few more chances to make that difference over a series). If a slip drops a catch, we say 'Bad luck - that was a hard chance etc'. If a keeper drops a hard chance we say 'Well, a test keeper should have caught that, etc'.
I think Gilchrist was, after Marsh, the first keeper who was picked because (a) he was an OK-to-average keeper who was also a gun bat and that's what got him the job. You might say Gilchrist changed the game by making it acceptable to go that way. Since then - Boucher, Prior, Dhoni, even the Kiwi keepers, have all been the bats who reach a certain keeping standard - ie average. It doesn't matter if one keeper is way better than the other - if both reach the minimum standard, the best bat will be chosen.
Having said that, I have never been able to work out in my mind who was the better bowler - McGrath or Warne. Warne, however was a significantly better batter and fielder, and so overall a slightly better player.
I think Gilchrist was, after Marsh, the first keeper who was picked because (a) he was an OK-to-average keeper who was also a gun bat and that's what got him the job. You might say Gilchrist changed the game by making it acceptable to go that way. Since then - Boucher, Prior, Dhoni, even the Kiwi keepers, have all been the bats who reach a certain keeping standard - ie average. It doesn't matter if one keeper is way better than the other - if both reach the minimum standard, the best bat will be chosen.
Having said that, I have never been able to work out in my mind who was the better bowler - McGrath or Warne. Warne, however was a significantly better batter and fielder, and so overall a slightly better player.
Gough
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- #58
It's what I imagine watching Bradman was like, confident that you'll never see anyone else quite like it. I loved that AB finally got a strike bowler at the end of his career, even if it didn't take the form he quite imagined it would.
Which spinner was better than murali, bearing in mind the general lack of tracks an off spinner can use compared to a leggie? Even the worst leggie can bowl something ridiculous every few overs. Same can't be said for most of the very best off spinners. Off spin is easier to bowl, but it's not necessarily easier to get wickets with.
Your argument is comparing two quicks with similar achievements and dismissing one completely because he didn't master reverse swing.
How can any one compare him to Bradman, who was 40 per cent better than the next best in history at what he did?
Jacques Kallis is hands down the best cricketer I've seen and no one comes within a bulls roar of him for me.
- Sep 15, 2011
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I rate Warne ahead of Kallis; considerably ahead. But that's the beauty of cricket, not only do you compare players against their peers, but against players with completely different disciplines.
I'm not sure how much you know about legspin bowling. Part of their arsenal is a ball named the flipper. It had been bowled by leggies from back in the 1940s. Richie Benaud, a fine leggie, used to bowl the flipper himself.
The flipper had always been a ball that landed around mid-pitch to skid on, hoping a batsman would step back to pull and the ball sneaking underneath. Along came Warne who didn't land mid-pitch, he pitched the ball around 3/4 length which was awkward to play, and it would rocket off the pitch.
Warne is the only leggie to turn a regular delivery into a devastating weapon. No leggie has been able to do it since, so in a sense he was around "40 per cent" better than the next best in history at what he did.
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Shane had a wrong un... He just didn't rely on it much because he had the flipper, top spinner, slider, huge turning leggy.
Tried finding a video of his wrong un on YouTube and I can't find one without spending my whole Saturday night looking at Warney videos
Btw.. Anybody going to his Shane Uncut show? I'm thinking about it
Tried finding a video of his wrong un on YouTube and I can't find one without spending my whole Saturday night looking at Warney videos
Btw.. Anybody going to his Shane Uncut show? I'm thinking about it
- Sep 28, 2016
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Warne v Murali
'there's two players out here today and only one of us is playing cricket'
'there's two players out here today and only one of us is playing cricket'
He didn't rely on it because he couldn't bowl it effectively.
Doesn't make him s**t, I'm just pointing out that it's hard to say 'so and so was 40 per cent better than his contemporaries because he could bowl this ball that they couldnt' when he had trouble bowling a delivery that most of them could.
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And he began his test career before Gilchrist.
He didn't bowl it much beforehand either.
For all his tricks I think people have a tendency to forget that he got most of his wickets through sheer accuracy and monotonously hitting the same spot with his text book leg break
His top spinner was his go to ball.
if you take out the number of tests murali played vs the minnows + the fact he played at home on prepared pitches and Warne is comfortably ahead from a statistical stand point too.
If Warne played as many tests as Murali did in Sri Lanka he'd have taken 1000 wickets. Lets not forget Murali got slogged in Australia too
