Toast Warnock and Hampson

[The_Wookie]

With Kreuzer out still, Im pretty pleased that the pre-season form continued for both the big men, whether it was up forward or in the ruck contests. More than that, both big guys tackled well - something we've seen a bit from warnock in the past, but even hampson was doing it - and paid the price with a few high tackles that you can forgive the big fella for. Both big men put their bodies on the line at ground level as well.
Its as if both ruckmen are modelling themselves on the kreuzer method (before he was injured kreuzer led the tackle count for carlton).

Both missed set shots for goal, but both took some great contested marks as well. Enough so that we can afford not to rush kreuzer back in to the side or worry about needing a sub ruckman. And they both won in the ruck duels - and both played the full match on the ground.

When all 3 of the big men are in the side, its going to be a very interesting time indeed.

 

[Big Red is back]

Warnock was excellent the other chap dropped so many marks he even got a bronx cheer.

 

[The_Wookie]

yes lets not look at the delivery or the idiots from his own team that flew at everything he tried to take. he drops no more marks than henderson.

 

[KruZin]

Both were rubbish last night. We should have kept Sauce!

Surprised that most had Warnock in our top 5 last night. He looked slow as, and was only playing against that spud Graham FFS..who matched him for the most part. Not much of an achievement beating Graham & Vickory in the hitouts.

The sooner Kruezer comes back into the side and Setanta plays 2nd ruck/sub and Warnock & Hampson are playing for the Bullants the better off we will be.

 

[Azul]

To be honest, I'm still not sold, particularly after round 22 last year.

Last night Hampson's tap work was good, he did kick a match saving goal but had few touches around the ground. Our structure was destroyed last night and neither had much scoreboard impact.

As 100 minute footballers, I can't see a spot for both in our 21. I'd play Warnock for 3 quarters then sub Hampson.

For next week, let's hope Waite and Henderson can get on the park together. If not, it's exactly why we elevated Levi Casbah - as a forward and for 5 mins a quarter in the ruck. Heck, even Setanta offers more versatility than Thornton - if, say, we wanted to select Watson AND Bower.

 

[thylacine60]

Hammer dropped more marks than a Tsarist sniper.

 

[Bluebear]

Enough so that we can afford not to rush kreuzer back in to the side or worry about needing a sub ruckman.

I don't think Kreuzer would have been "rushed back" before they changed the interchange rule let alone now. He will get his legs back in the two's and only be picked when he is 100%. We can't afford to rest him on the bench for a half, and I don't think we will see a ruck as a sub - they will be "utilities" or flankers who can play midfield or a back up defender/forward.

 

[KruZin]

Hammer dropped more marks than a Tsarist sniper.

Missed a regulation set shot from 20 metres out in the last 1/4 as well. Warnock missed a sitter from 30 out earlier in the game as well. If these 2 are going to rotate from the Ruck/FF/FP they need to learn to convert every oppertunity. Anything less than 3 goals from these two (combined) whilst resting in the forward line is not enough to keep both in our starting 22

 

[NAUGHT5]

I didn't mind Hammer.

Plucked a couple. Still dropped a few but he's improving.

 

[gbatman]

I'd like to see Hampson hold more marks. I think he tries to mark directly above his head too much. Needs to mark more out in front.

Warnock was decent but get's out bodied a bit much and could be more aggressive in contested marking. Love his efforts at ground level and his poise with the ball.

 

[Mandragoran]

Hampson showed signs but just needs to get some confidence to clunk more marks. last quarter will help with that. When he was in the ruck he was better than average I thought, it seemed to me that a number of our cleanest clearances came from perfect taps from him.

Warnock was the best ruckman on the ground last night, but he did get consistantly beaten during the third quarter, and he needs to react quicker than that when it starts happeneing again.

Both have improvement to go but I can't think of another teams ruck line up I would trade them for

 

[blues4flag]

Those who expected Hammer to come out and dominate are kidding themselves. What he did show is a marked improvement over last year.

While he dropped more than he took (it was slightly wet, so there's a small excuse) he got hands to the ball almost every time it went near him.

Yesterday's performance combined with his preseason form is very promising indeed. It's a gradual improvement with Hampson and always has been.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Hampson is improving at a good rate. Warnock is a beast.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Conditions last night were terrible for marking and as others have pointed out in other threads, delivery into the forward line wasn't exactly a feature.

Folks are hailing Jack, who is credited with 6 marks for the game, and Hammer managed 5. If he'd slotted 3 goals instead of the 1.2 he managed, I doubt we'd even be talking about his dropped marks.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Missed a regulation set shot from 20 metres out in the last 1/4 as well. Warnock missed a sitter from 30 out earlier in the game as well. If these 2 are going to rotate from the Ruck/FF/FP they need to learn to convert every oppertunity. Anything less than 3 goals from these two (combined) whilst resting in the forward line is not enough to keep both in our starting 22

Yep cos every other ruck combination is contributing 60 goals a year.

Name a single ruck or ruck combination in the league that kicked over 50 goals let alone 66 (thats 22 x 3) last season or any frickin season for that matter. Get a clue.

 

[Azul]

Name a single ruck or ruck combination in the league that kicked over 50 goals let alone 66 (thats 22 x 3) last season or any frickin season

Paul Salmon and Simon Madden?

Last night, with Henderson out, we were a key forward short. So it would not be unreasonable for that pair to contribute 3 goals between them. That's less than 1 goal a half for each.

To consistently produce that every week is another story - we'll have Waite/Henderson/Casboult/Setanta as specialists.

 

[Sublime]

Conditions last night were terrible for marking and as others have pointed out in other threads, delivery into the forward line wasn't exactly a feature.

Folks are hailing Jack, who is credited with 6 marks for the game, and Hammer managed 5. If he'd slotted 3 goals instead of the 1.2 he managed, I doubt we'd even be talking about his dropped marks.

Jack 6 marks, 4 contested.

Hammer 5 marks, 3 contested.

I agree, Hammer is doing his job great. He's getting his hand to many balls, and no player clunks every mark. He has taken great steps forward so far from what i've seen and i'm sure the MC are very happy. Kicking will always be shaky, but can be worked on continually. A handy return for a ruckman in the forwardline on a slippery night.

Jacks contested marks were allowed to be mainly on his chest, Hammer took them dukes in the air. Impressive, and the ones he didn't take were front and centre where the smalls should be.

Only trolls could say he was horrible last night.

 

[jonoman89]

Only trolls could say he was horrible last night.

Guess that makes me a half-troll then?

Hammer was average last night. Dropped a ton of marks which is a sin for a ruckman.

I know it was wet, but jeez some of those grabs should have been absolute gimme's.

Warnock was great

 

[40yearBLUE]

Guess that makes me a half-troll then?

Hammer was average last night. Dropped a ton of marks which is a sin for a ruckman.

I know it was wet, but jeez some of those grabs should have been absolute gimme's.

Warnock was great

Well you got one half right! Good job. A sin you say. Find me a ruck, any of them, even the very best of them that dont drop marks. A sin it might be, but not even remotely unusual.

Warnock took 3 marks and had 30 hit outs, Hammer took 5 and had 12 hit outs. Contrast that to Graham had 4 marks and 16 hit outs and Vickery who had 3 marks and 7 hit outs.

That totals out to 8 marks for our rucks and 42 hit outs and 7 marks for them and 22 hit outs or about half of ours. In other words of every 3 ruck contests our boys got 2 of them. Vickery and Knockers have about the same number of games and Hammer and Graham about the same. I know which pair I would like to have going forward.

Now compare marking. An acknowledged mark in Reiwoldt took just 1 more mark than Hammer on the night. Just 1.

By any measure you like, our rucks dominated. To your credit you acknowledge that 206 was great, and Hammer took a fair to good number of marks. But because he got his hands on a number more that didnt stick and because he missed 2 fairly easy shots at goal you are dissappointed? Have a bit of a think about it.

 

[Aussie Joe]

If Hammer can hold down those marks, he would be a beast. But I do seriously worry why he drops so many and releases so quickly after taking one. Nothing wrong with Warnock. You will see how good he is come mid season, if no injuries come his way.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Paul Salmon and Simon Madden?

Last night, with Henderson out, we were a key forward short. So it would not be unreasonable for that pair to contribute 3 goals between them. That's less than 1 goal a half for each.

To consistently produce that every week is another story - we'll have Waite/Henderson/Casboult/Setanta as specialists.

Yep thats a fair call, they averaged about 70 goals a season between them, between 87 and 92. I cant think of any others that have ever been that effective in front of goal whilst still winning the taps around the ground. But to also be fair, they were both freaks of the game and both went on to play 300 games, a pairing similar to Warne and McGrath.

Can anyone else think of any others. Or better yet, any this century? Even Charman/Keating/McDonald of Brisbanes dominant years only managed about a goal a game between them.

In 2004 Lade had the most hit outs for Port and kicked 31 goals, that is about the best I can think of, and Jolly last year got about 20 goals. Primus for Port in 02 got 23.

So by any measure, a goal a game from a top flight ruckman is very good in todays footy. If we get a goal a game between our rucks for the year we will be doing ok. Its not that common.

 

[Sublime]

Why do people have such unreasonable expectations on Hampson just because he's tall? He led our team in contested marking last night, and half the time was the only one who looked likely in our forwardline.

Walker can jump 20 metres before the ball arrives and let the ball over the back to waiting defendersor give away a free kick.

Betts can drop contested marks just because he's small.

But no, Hampson has to swat everything that goes near him even though the ones he misses go front and centre where the rovers should be.

 

[Kramer1]

Warnock started and finished well. A lull in the middle wth the rest of the team. Graham is no spud either, finished last year relatively strongly.

Hampson continues to improve though doubt it will ever be at a pace to satisfy BF. Clunked a ripper to begin, and should have taken the one immediately after. A shit of a night for marking talls, compounded by the largely clueless delivery into the forward line. Doing much more follow upwork at ground level too which is pleasing to see.

 

[thylacine60]

It's an over-rated place, Harkmanistan.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

If you didn't know Hampson had a problem holding onto his marks, and the commentators didn't exaggerate the issue, you would think he looked a likely type with a strong set of hands based on last night.

I'm not surprised he didn't hold onto some contested opportunities, in wet conditions. I'm surprised by the fact that he did manage to hold onto several contested opportunities in wet conditions.

He missed a couple of sitters - first game, greater responsibility on him, not surprised he was a bit nervous in front of goal.

Kicked the one that mattered, and was probably 1 goal short of everyone praising him. Didn't need that extra one for me though, showed more than I would have hoped.