We Need a Plan B

[Undisputed_King]

Is anyone here as frustrated as I am with Roos' reluctance to try something different?

I mean if what you're doing is not working for you then you've got to change it. Kick it long, be direct, play on quickly, I don't care if the ball doesn't hit Hall on the chest. Just get the ball to our forwards ASAP and as often as possible.

this idea of hitting targets on the lead and playing it safe by not kicking to contests is all great in theory, but is simply not advantageous anymore because that invariably gives teams the chance to get numbers back. The Pies and the Saints have used this to great success and I think it will only be a matter of time before other teams adopt this policy.

 

[rancidpants13]

Is anyone here as frustrated as I am with Roos' reluctance to try something different?

this idea of hitting targets on the lead and playing it safe by not kicking to contests is all great in theory, but is simply not advantageous anymore because that invariably gives teams the chance to get numbers back. The Pies and the Saints have used this to great success and I think it will only be a matter of time before other teams adopt this policy.

yes
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
yes yes yes yes
i am seriously frustrated at watching the same friggin game as i've seen i dunno how many times in the past two seasons, whether it's the game plan or the personnel or a combination
last night followed the same pattern as all three losses to c'wood last season, the same as our round 1 loss to the weagles, the same as our one-point loss to essendon, the same as the loss to geelong at skilled, the loss to the roos at the dome

yes, it's time we tried something different
we seemed to try something different in round 22 against hawthorn, but it must have failed dismally because we ditched it the following week in the finals against the pies
remind me .....sighhhhhh .... what happened?

 

[RUNVS]

yes, it's time we tried something different
we seemed to try something different in round 22 against hawthorn, but it must have failed dismally because we ditched it the following week in the finals against the pies
remind me .....sighhhhhh .... what happened?

Yes i remember that. It was far to free flowing and high scoring for Paul Roos tastes. It didnt feel right winning by 73 points. It felt far more natural losing by under a goal.

 

[rancidpants13]

Yes i remember that. It was far to free flowing and high scoring for Paul Roos tastes. It didnt feel right winning by 73 points. It felt far more natural losing by under a goal.

the worst aspect is feeling like we're out of the game, giving away too big a start, BEFORE quarter time
i bruised my knuckles banging my hands against the (thankfully empty) seat in front of me through the first quarter last night
all the excitement and build-up to a new season, the feeling like MAYBE we're gonna be a bit different this year, and feel it completely deflate in barely 15 minutes
yes, i know we scragged our way back and in the end we probly should've won it, but do we have to play that kinda teeth-pulling style all the time???
i'm sick of the roos line, "we've got no stars, we play to our team strengths"
we HAVE got stars, and we've got NEW stars, such as kieren jack .........

ahhh, look, it's round 1 and a long way to go
i should take a deep breath and calm down

 

[Undisputed_King]

yes
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
yes yes yes yes
i am seriously frustrated at watching the same friggin game as i've seen i dunno how many times in the past two seasons, whether it's the game plan or the personnel or a combination
last night followed the same pattern as all three losses to c'wood last season, the same as our round 1 loss to the weagles, the same as our one-point loss to essendon, the same as the loss to geelong at skilled, the loss to the roos at the dome

yes, it's time we tried something different
we seemed to try something different in round 22 against hawthorn, but it must have failed dismally because we ditched it the following week in the finals against the pies
remind me .....sighhhhhh .... what happened?

The game against the hawks is a good example of what we are capable of when we play footy AS IT SHOULD BE PLAYED.

I've stopped blaming the players because the problem comes from the top. If we're seeing the same things happen week after week then there is a problem with the tactics that Roos is using.

And its even worse when the problem comes from the top because Roos and his coaching staff are not held accountable to anyone in the immediate future unlike players who can get dropped the very next week.

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Is anyone here as frustrated as I am with Roos' reluctance to try something different?

I mean if what you're doing is not working for you then you've got to change it. Kick it long, be direct, play on quickly, I don't care if the ball doesn't hit Hall on the chest. Just get the ball to our forwards ASAP and as often as possible.

this idea of hitting targets on the lead and playing it safe by not kicking to contests is all great in theory, but is simply not advantageous anymore because that invariably gives teams the chance to get numbers back. The Pies and the Saints have used this to great success and I think it will only be a matter of time before other teams adopt this policy.

Apart from the lack of run and carry and also the extra age and "battle fatigue weariness" of our players to me the other biggest difference IMO between 2005 and 2007 is that in 2005 we didn't miss targets and turn the ball over as much.

How many times did the delivery against the saints drop short and bounce infront of the leading forward.

Is it the extra age or what - why has our standard of dispossal dropped since 2005 ?

 

[Undisputed_King]

Apart from the lack of run and carry and also the extra age and "battle fatigue weariness" of our players to me the other biggest difference IMO between 2005 and 2007 is that in 2005 we didn't miss targets and turn the ball over as much.

How many times did the delivery against the saints drop short and bounce infront of the leading forward.

Is it the extra age or what - why has our stanadard of dispossal dropped since 2005 ?

We missed targets because there is a smaller margin for error. brought on by the fact that the saints had huge numbers back. If we had moved the ball quicker into our forward line, at least there was the possibiity of a one on one contest.

We have no problems getting the ball outside the 55-60m mark. Its the delivery inside the 50 that kills us because its simply too congested.

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

We missed targets because there is a smaller margin for error. brought on by the fact that the saints had huge numbers back. If we had moved the ball quicker into our forward line, at least there was the possibiity of a one on one contest.

We have no problems getting the ball outside the 55-60m mark. Its the delivery inside the 50 that kills us because its simply too congested.

I do agree that the use of some long goal kicking midfielders as I read elsewhere would make it harder for opposition teams to clog up our forwardline, but I don't know that I totally agree with the "undisputed king" as there were times our forwards had their 5 metre breaks whilst leading and we couldn't hit them.

My honest opinion is that in 2007 our kicking skills all over the ground were not as good as in 2005.

Have we changed skills coaches?

Perhaps a decline in skills is contributing to us losing these tight games.

i.e. in 2007 as compared to 2005 were we more inclined to turn it over when the pressure was on ?

 

[ryantoogood]

From where I sat on Saturday night, it just looked to me like the players had NO confidence in kicking to a one on one contest. Therefore they held onto the ball waiting for a clear player, which only gave the Saints time to get back and turn the one on one into a three on one. This put extra pressure on players to find a clear target, and our terrible foot skills were clearly taken advantage of. Somebody has to bite the bullet and trust the player downfield in a one on one contest.

 

[SouthSwans]

It is true all of this that we need to trial some of this stuff, but keep in mind also that it is round one, we've blooded many youths with little experience and we only lost by two points to the 2nd favourites for the premiership.

Things need to be worked on, but stay optimistic.

 

[Undisputed_King]

It is true all of this that we need to trial some of this stuff, but keep in mind also that it is round one, we've blooded many youths with little experience and we only lost by two points to the 2nd favourites for the premiership.

Things need to be worked on, but stay optimistic.

I don't think we should draw any comfort from the fact that we played against a flag favourite.

Fact is we have not learnt anything from last season.

 

[Skystyler]

Could not agree more. The same things that were wrong last year are still wrong.
1. Too slow out of the blocks
2. No reliable key targets up front.
3. Too small down back.
4. Too many turnovers leading to easy shots on goal
5. Too slow bringing the ball forward, inviting a flood.
6. No idea how to deal with a flood.

We desperately need another tall target up forward. Can Playfair be that player? I dont know. Jesse White? maybe. LRT needs to hold down a key position in the back half and shouldn't be asked to pinch hit in the ruck. Even then we are short one tall defender in my opinion. I'm sick of seeing Craig Bolton and Leo Barry playing on these guys a foot taller than them.

We also need to be prepared to kick to a one on one and back our guy to win it occassionally. Goodes wore Leigh Fisher like a glove but Fisher is at least 6 inches shorter than Goodes. Why didn't we isolate the pair of them and just kick it above his head? The saints weren't afraid to go to Riewoldt even though Craig Bolton had him covered - and look at all the soft free kicks he was given.

 

[TheMase]

Plan B is not much good when the players can not hit a target by hand nor foot.

 

[matthew_357]

even though it would never happen i'd like to see longmire fully coach us for a game, just to see what changes he makes etc, will probably see him coaching in a couple of years anyway but would like to see what he wouldve done on saturday.

P.S LRT is a star, and i would put every dollar that i have in a bet that sydney will finish 16th in Frees For, and 1st in Frees Against, at the end of the year lol.

 

[Undisputed_King]

Plan B is not much good when the players can not hit a target by hand nor foot.

I think being patient and waiting for someone to lead is what's causing a lot of the problems. Sure if the opposition does not flood then it may work and by all means we should continue to do it. But when it doesn't work, then you've got to change it up. for arguments sake sometimes the best option is simply one long kick (even if it's inaccurate) instead of a series of short kicks along the wings which allow the opposition to flood.

 

[RUNVS]

My solution is moving Leo Barry to Full Forward and moving Barry Hall into defence

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

Is anyone here as frustrated as I am with Roos' reluctance to try something different?

I mean if what you're doing is not working for you then you've got to change it. Kick it long, be direct, play on quickly, I don't care if the ball doesn't hit Hall on the chest. Just get the ball to our forwards ASAP and as often as possible.

this idea of hitting targets on the lead and playing it safe by not kicking to contests is all great in theory, but is simply not advantageous anymore because that invariably gives teams the chance to get numbers back. The Pies and the Saints have used this to great success and I think it will only be a matter of time before other teams adopt this policy.

Not all is lost mate. Remember despite all the chip kicking & flooding from both teams we still nearly won the game in the last couple of minutes.

Not every match will be like one against Ross Lyon-coached St Kilda. He knows our game like the back of his hand & hence knows the way to stop it.

The thing is, the Swans do need a more defined game plan to beat the flood. What you need is long kickers around the 55-60m mark. Guys like Nick Davis & maybe even Craig Bolton floating forward with shots over the throng of players in our attacking 50.

The thing we need to seriously look at I believe is our handball happy approach to getting the ball out of defensive. Teams know what we do now. They know that Leo Barry will run around in circles. These days they know they can catch him too. The short kick-off or even little chip-to-yourself kick outs often put us under a great deal of pressure at exactly the wrong part of the ground.

Especially on the shorter SCG, I'd love to see us go straight down the guts to a long target. But I guess I'll have to give Roos the benefit of the doubt that he knows what is best for the team I guess.

JF

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

The game against the hawks is a good example of what we are capable of when we play footy AS IT SHOULD BE PLAYED.

I've stopped blaming the players because the problem comes from the top. If we're seeing the same things happen week after week then there is a problem with the tactics that Roos is using.

And its even worse when the problem comes from the top because Roos and his coaching staff are not held accountable to anyone in the immediate future unlike players who can get dropped the very next week.

I have heard rumours that many of the players are extremely unhappy as to why we are not adopting a more open game plan. One player I'm told even wanted out because of it.

It is only a rumour, but at a club like the Swans where there is smoke, you often get fire as well.

JF

 

[RUNVS]

I have heard rumours that many of the players are extremely unhappy as to why we are not adopting a more open game plan. One player I'm told even wanted out because of it.

It is only a rumour, but at a club like the Swans where there is smoke, you often get fire as well.

JF

You can understand some of them being upset as it is a gameplan which kills all flair players and they end up looking like apsolute shit (Goodes for example). Out of curiosity do you know which player wants out of the club?

 

[swannykika]

swans fans will be calling for Roos blood by mid season. I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt come under mounting pressure as this season unfolds, to step down and hand over the reigns. Having done a fine job thus far, every coach has his limitations, and I would hate to see his coaching rep tarnished and spoiled by what seems to be a glass ceiling. Noone wants to Roosy remembered like that.

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

You can understand some of them being upset as it is a gameplan which kills all flair players and they end up looking like apsolute shit (Goodes for example). Out of curiosity do you know which player wants out of the club?

This one, I hear.

From his performance on Saturday night, I really wouldn't mind if he did do..

JF

 

[RUNVS]

This one, I hear.

From his performance on Saturday night, I really wouldn't mind if he did do..

JF

Is that Bolton?

 

[Undisputed_King]

Not all is lost mate. Remember despite all the chip kicking & flooding from both teams we still nearly won the game in the last couple of minutes.

Not every match will be like one against Ross Lyon-coached St Kilda. He knows our game like the back of his hand & hence knows the way to stop it.

You are right to some extent. but there is a preconceived idea that to "beat sydney, you have to do what they do to other teams - strangle the opposition".
And so what I fear is other teams employing those tactics

 

[balldman]

swans fans will be calling for Roos blood by mid season. I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt come under mounting pressure as this season unfolds, to step down and hand over the reigns. Having done a fine job thus far, every coach has his limitations, and I would hate to see his coaching rep tarnished and spoiled by what seems to be a glass ceiling. Noone wants to Roosy remembered like that.

So by Round 10,we'll have a 3-7 w/l record & the catch cry will be "Lose Roos",will it?

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Can't believe the negativity in this thread.

Yes us, who usually start the season slowly and who played several younger players, we lost by 2 points in an away game to a premiership favourite coached by one of our own.

Whilst there were a few negatives, all in all there were a lot of positives which I personally thought out weighed the negatives.

I don't know which is worse on this board the habitual bagging of McVeigh or the bagging of Paul Roos