Weakest Premiership team since 1990

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i think people forget how big port and the lions were in 02-04 (of course lions in 01 too)

port just managed to get shit together in the 04 finals series, hence we were able to make the grand final
 
I agree that Port do not deserve to be in this poll.

However, some people are missing the mark by talking up how they defeated Brisbane in that Grand Final. Brisbane were a spent force, and severely diminished in 2004 relative to their previous years. They only just got over a young and inexperienced Geelong side in the prelim - and in actual fact would have lost that game if Geelong knew how to win.

Brisbane were shaky in 2003 as well. It just so happened that they scrapped their way to the GF (after losing the QF) and then faced up to Collingwood - a team that clearly is better at losing GFs than winning them.

On that note - the weakest premiership would have to the Pies of 1990. I watched that match a few weeks back and was amazed at the anticlimactic aspect of the Collingwood team... I still can't work out how they won it on the back of 3 or 4 players, whom are not the sort o 3 or 4 players that would normally win a flag off their own collective boot.

... on second though - the weakest flag is undoubtedly Adelaide of '98! finished 5th, got smashed in their first final yet lived to fight another day thanks to a quirk in the finals system back then (a quirk that has thankfully been fixed), and then got handed the flag on a platter by North Melbourne, who kicked 2 goals 9 behinds in a dominant second quarter, and choked completely thereafter.
 

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Wow, Bigfooty is full of complete idiots.

The team that won the most games in 01-04, beat 4th, 3rd and 2nd to win the flag in 04.

Complete utter ****wits
 
I reckon Adelaide 1998, as mentioned by several posters, no side finishing 5th with a mediocre 13-9 record (as they have this season) deserves to survive and progress to the 2nd week of the finals after a whipping at the hands of the Demons. They had Darren Jarman who was ice cool at the death who carried them away to the chance for a flag, and they won 7 games in September in those two seasons, but that quirk of the finals system still rankles.

And in 1997, i reckon if any side nominated an opponent to confront in a Preliminary final and Grand final, the Dogs and saints would rate right up there. Dogs have only made two Grand Finals, Saints have made i think had made five in their entire history, two sides that just are not noted performers in September.

Adelaide went back to back with a middling 33-19 record in those two years. Hawthorn by contrast in 1988-89 were 42-6 in that time. Hopefully, Geelong this year can make it 45-5 if they can go back to back. Once thing is for certain, oh i so wish for the return of the old 'second semi final'. Win it, straight to the Grannie, lose and get a preliminary as the 2nd chance. A singular chance in a preliminary for a side being 22-1 at this point if the year seems awfully harsh.
 
Essendon 1993 and Carlton 1995, as both had to exceed the salary cap win it, to this day I am still dumbfounded to why the AFL can allow them to keep the cups they won when they had to cheat to do so.
 
Claude Balls said:
I agree that Port do not deserve to be in this poll.

However, some people are missing the mark by talking up how they defeated Brisbane in that Grand Final. Brisbane were a spent force, and severely diminished in 2004 relative to their previous years. They only just got over a young and inexperienced Geelong side in the prelim - and in actual fact would have lost that game if Geelong knew how to win.
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I've heard Brisbane supporters say that they were better in 2004 than they were in 2003. In fact, I don't see how they were severely dimished, and i'm going to need some convincing to ever believe anything of the sort.

They were pretty much universally tipped to win by 5-6 goals in the GF as well. Anyone calling them a spent force the day before the 2004 GF would have been laughed at.

In any case, we didn't just beat Brisbane, as someone else said, we beat 4th, and 3rd in the finals as well, as well as finishing top.
 
SA Blue said:
1990 Pies side. Easily.
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agree, worst side to win a flag for many years.... the draw won them the flag that year, essendon effectively had 3 weeks off due to resting alot of their playes in the last game of the year, then having the next 2 weeks off due to the drawn game between eagles and pies... was one of the worst grand finals as well. Only highlight was the brawl.... and to think this is collingwoods only flag in the last 50 years.....
 
ThunderPower_14 said:
I've heard Brisbane supporters say that they were better in 2004 than they were in 2003. In fact, I don't see how they were severely dimished, and i'm going to need some convincing to ever believe anything of the sort.

They were pretty much universally tipped to win by 5-6 goals in the GF as well. Anyone calling them a spent force the day before the 2004 GF would have been laughed at.

In any case, we didn't just beat Brisbane, as someone else said, we beat 4th, and 3rd in the finals as well, as well as finishing top.
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The bolded sentence is very vague assesment indeed. If anything, you will find that the vast majority of Brisbane supporters believe that the team's best football was played between round 8 or 9 in 2001, through to the latter stages of 2002. During this period, the likes of Voss, Lappin, Leppitsch, Michael, Johnson, the Scotts, Aker, Black, Lynch, were at their peak, and were around 24 - 27 years old (with the exception of Lynch who was already over 30).

I know you have only compared 2004 with 2003, but the point remains that in 2004, this Lions team was at the end of its reign. In fact, the following players were already at least 28 years old in '04 (several to be 29 or older during '05), and were to retire within the next 18 months to 2 years: Voss, Lynch, Brad Scott, Leppitsch, Pike, McRae, White...

What's more, Brisbane barely overcame a Geelong side in the 2004 prelim that was a very poor imitation of Geelong's current side, and in which the likes of Bartel, Ablett, Johnson etc were all 21 years old, and Corey, Enright, Chapman, Ling etc were all about 23.

Add to this the fact that Port had an irrepressible hunger to atone for several years of finals choking and underperforming, while Brisbane comparitively did not (already having 3 cups in the cabinet), and I just cannot see how there is anything to make proud reference to in terms of the quality of the opposition in that grand final.

Sure, Port were a very good team, and worthy premiers, but there is absolutely no merit in claiming that the 2004 permiership was exceptional in that the victors dispatched one of the great teams. The great team in question, was actually no longer that great.
 
Claude Balls said:
The bolded sentence is very vague assesment indeed. If anything, you will find that the vast majority of Brisbane supporters believe that the team's best football was played between round 8 or 9 in 2001, through to the latter stages of 2002. During this period, the likes of Voss, Lappin, Leppitsch, Michael, Johnson, the Scotts, Aker, Black, Lynch, were at their peak, and were around 24 - 27 years old (with the exception of Lynch who was already over 30).

I know you have only compared 2004 with 2003, but the point remains that in 2004, this Lions team was at the end of its reign. In fact, the following players were already at least 28 years old in '04 (several to be 29 or older during '05), and were to retire within the next 18 months to 2 years: Voss, Lynch, Brad Scott, Leppitsch, Pike, McRae, White...

What's more, Brisbane barely overcame a Geelong side in the 2004 prelim that was a very poor imitation of Geelong's current side, and in which the likes of Bartel, Ablett, Johnson etc were all 21 years old, and Corey, Enright, Chapman, Ling etc were all about 23.

Add to this the fact that Port had an irrepressible hunger to atone for several years of finals choking and underperforming, while Brisbane comparitively did not (already having 3 cups in the cabinet), and I just cannot see how there is anything to make proud reference to in terms of the quality of the opposition in that grand final.

Sure, Port were a very good team, and worthy premiers, but there is absolutely no merit in claiming that the 2004 permiership was exceptional in that the victors dispatched one of the great teams. The great team in question, was actually no longer that great.
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We beat 4th (you guys)
We beat 3rd (St Kilda, arguably their finest hour)
We beat 2nd (the greatest team ever)

We did it after 3 straight Minor Premierships.

That ain't soft, that's the hardest of the lot.

No to mention the loss of the Captain and most dominant ruck in the league, Primus, and our most dominant, and twice top 3 in the brownlow, clearance player in Francou, also the Vice-captain.

And who gives a shit what Geelong's side consisted of back then, that's 4 years ago.

Wilson and Wanganeen's shoulders falling out virtually every quarter.... Roger James knees an absolute wreck etc etc

And don't get me started on the number of older players either.... you are forgetting that we won more games with that same bunch then Brisbane did in those years, we were ageing too.
 

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I'd compare Brisbane just getting over the line over Geelong in 04 to Geelong just getting over the line against Collingwood in 07.

A footballer is still in his prime at 28, so that point is pretty well worthless.

Again, anyone who wasn't a Port supporter was mightily confident that we were comfortably going down in that GF. It's all well and good to say "oh well the Lions were on their way down anyway" after the fact, but absolutely no one was saying that in the week leading up to the game. No one. It was all about how they were going to win 4 in a row.
 
ThunderPower_14 said:
Again, anyone who wasn't a Port supporter was mightily confident that we were comfortably going down in that GF. It's all well and good to say "oh well the Lions were on their way down anyway" after the fact, but absolutely no one was saying that in the week leading up to the game. No one. It was all about how they were going to win 4 in a row.
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Your right, no one rated us... despite the fact we had a winning record over the Lions in those years, which would presumably be the only club in that situation.
 
Claude Balls said:
I agree that Port do not deserve to be in this poll.

However, some people are missing the mark by talking up how they defeated Brisbane in that Grand Final. Brisbane were a spent force, and severely diminished in 2004 relative to their previous years. They only just got over a young and inexperienced Geelong side in the prelim - and in actual fact would have lost that game if Geelong knew how to win.

Brisbane were shaky in 2003 as well. It just so happened that they scrapped their way to the GF (after losing the QF) and then faced up to Collingwood - a team that clearly is better at losing GFs than winning them.

On that note - the weakest premiership would have to the Pies of 1990. I watched that match a few weeks back and was amazed at the anticlimactic aspect of the Collingwood team... I still can't work out how they won it on the back of 3 or 4 players, whom are not the sort o 3 or 4 players that would normally win a flag off their own collective boot.

... on second though - the weakest flag is undoubtedly Adelaide of '98! finished 5th, got smashed in their first final yet lived to fight another day thanks to a quirk in the finals system back then (a quirk that has thankfully been fixed), and then got handed the flag on a platter by North Melbourne, who kicked 2 goals 9 behinds in a dominant second quarter, and choked completely thereafter.
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Just got over the line? :confused:

18.9 vs 9.8
 
Claude Balls said:
I agree that Port do not deserve to be in this poll.

However, some people are missing the mark by talking up how they defeated Brisbane in that Grand Final. Brisbane were a spent force, and severely diminished in 2004 relative to their previous years. They only just got over a young and inexperienced Geelong side in the prelim - and in actual fact would have lost that game if Geelong knew how to win.
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They beat Geelong in the Qualifying final; what you're thinking of is the 6-point win over St Kilda in the prelim.
 
PAFC_1 said:
We beat 4th (you guys)
We beat 3rd (St Kilda, arguably their finest hour)
We beat 2nd (the greatest team ever)

We did it after 3 straight Minor Premierships.

That ain't soft, that's the hardest of the lot.

No to mention the loss of the Captain and most dominant ruck in the league, Primus, and our most dominant, and twice top 3 in the brownlow, clearance player in Francou, also the Vice-captain.

And who gives a shit what Geelong's side consisted of back then, that's 4 years ago.

Wilson and Wanganeen's shoulders falling out virtually every quarter.... Roger James knees an absolute wreck etc etc

And don't get me started on the number of older players either.... you are forgetting that we won more games with that same bunch then Brisbane did in those years, we were ageing too.
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You're completely missing the point.

Port were a very good team; they deserved that premiership. However, one of their supporters, earlier in this thread, suggested that the 2004 grand final victory was especially great becasue it was at the expense of one of the greatest teams of all time.

I am quite clearly debating that Brisbane in 2004 were a fading power. They were at their best in 2001, and steadily diminished thereafter, culminating in the 2004 grand final loss. They only made the '04 grand final on the back of experience over a younger opponent with a severe lack of experience. In 2005, they finished 11th.

The fact that Port were minor premiers in the preceding two years is not actually endearing to your argument. The only logical interpretation is that they were not good enough while Brisbane was still powerful. If they had capatilised on their regular season success in 2002 for example, and defeated Brisbane in that year's grand final, we would not be debating this.
 
whomb said:
They beat Geelong in the Qualifying final; what you're thinking of is the 6-point win over St Kilda in the prelim.
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Actually no, if you read that sentence again you'll see I was referring to Brisbane, not Port. Brisbane narrowly beat Geelong in the prelim.
 
While I accept what you are saying, go back and look at some of the threads on this site before the Grand Final in 2004. Anyone who wasn't a Port supporter had us being comfortably beaten. Everyone in the media had us being comfortably beaten.

As i've said earlier in the thread, it's all well and good to claim that they were a fading force after the fact, but no one in September 2004 would have ever called Brisbane a fading force. Despite beating Geelong in a close one, they absolutely belted St Kilda at the Gabba in the qualifying final. 80 points. And that was St Kilda at their peak.

If you look back to the previous year, in 2003 they actually lost a final to Collingwood.

None of this points to them being a fading force in 2004. None of it.
 
Adelaide in 98, still rather win it with a weak team than lose it with a strong one (99).

I thought Ports team in 04 was excellent should have won 03 as well. 2004 was a very good grand final
 
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