What do you want to see over the next 10 weeks?????

[BlueBoy83]

I havent posted here for a while but i thought id share what i want to see happen for the rest of the year with all of you ... and see what other things you WANT to see happen over the course of the next 10 weeks.

1. Put O'hailpin on list in place of ADL ... dominating vfl lets give him a REAL go not 10 mins in a one sided domination like we had against the tigers.
2. Try Bryan in a key position, ie CHB??? not sure he's up to it but he seems to have pace adn really good skills for a big man, he could be a decent kpp cos not sure if he's big enough for the ruck full time ... also it would mean teague doesn't play on a monster as he's done and failed.
3. Play simpson, bentick, carazzo, bannister, davies, walker and maybe mcgrath in the middle alongside kouta, stevens. scotland moved on a hff and campo into a tagger maybe??? i want to see MUCH MUCH MUCH more game time given to the kids in the middle to see if there up to it and to fast track there development. I hate how pagan doesnt play kids!!!!
4. Don't play wiggons, sporn, bowyer, deluca, prenda, johnson, clarke, longmuir ++++ EVER again. these players bar maybe wiggons and sporn MUST I MEAN MUST BE DELISTED!!!!
5. We DONT win more than 2 more games, i love winning as much as the next person and am as passionate about the club as you all BUT we need quality ... enough is enough with persisting with these foot soldiers who have SHOCKING skills (prendas effort saturday night was laughable as were many others).
6. Trade whitnall and keep fevola and campo (who is playing injured ppl).
7. Change our fwd structure whereby we dont bomb it in long all the time ... which is suicide when we bring the ball in slow and opposition get numbers back.

Anyone else have any thoughts on what they'd like to see happen over the coming 10 weeks??? My main goal is to see the kids get MAXIMUM game time ... basically saying look you guys have 10 weeks to show whether your up to playing a key role for us in the future in the midfield etc etc etc ... NOT giving them 5-10 mins a qtr which just doesn't help us see how there going!!!!!! i especially want to see simpson, bentick and davies given more responsbility in the midfield.

GO BLUES!

 

[Lajon]

1. Play the kids like you said. Bowyer, Clarke etc are not part of our future ... stop wasting precious spots with these hacks and play the Davies, Benticks, Betts etc in the guts for the whole game. Let's see who can cut it going forward because the development of a lot of our youngsters has stagnated. There's no point playing Bentick and co in and out of the seniors and when they do get a call up, they are shifted on and off the ground continously. We are no further down the track in identifying who has a future at the club and who doesn't. Davies is a perfect example. He's been with us a few years now and still no one can say whether he will definitely be a player of the future or not because he is constantly shifted in positions and never given time to prove himself.

2. Hopefully we remain bottom and not win more then 2 games. We need the priority. Use the first 2 picks to grab the 2 best players available and let's hope we get a couple of 200+ career Carlton boys.

3. BULK UP on draft picks. DO NOT trade away any first or second round picks (none at all if possible). Trade hacks and try and get some late picks in the hope of snagging a few talents late in the draft such as a Josh Hunt from a few years ago. Imagine if we can get 5 picks inside 20 plus a few others in later rounds.

4. If a Luke Power, Brogan or any other mid-late 20 year old "star" wants to be traded, by all means try and get them. But do not trade any of our picks. Negotiate wisely and try and utilise the #1 pick in the PSD we will have by making sure a gun player will fall into our lap, like Stevens did a couple years ago.

Basically, emulate Hawthorn and Richmond of last year. If we can do these 4 things, we might be able to look back at 2005 as the beginning of something special.

 

[Muji]

Good point guys, but would pagan be willing to play the youngsters or does he want to win?

 

[stokesy]

3. Play simpson, bentick, carazzo, bannister, davies, walker and maybe mcgrath in the middle alongside kouta, stevens. scotland moved on a hff and campo into a tagger maybe??? i want to see MUCH MUCH MUCH more game time given to the kids in the middle to see if there up to it and to fast track there development. I hate how pagan doesnt play kids!!!!
4. Don't play wiggons, sporn, bowyer, deluca, prenda, johnson, clarke, longmuir ++++ EVER again. these players bar maybe wiggons and sporn MUST I MEAN MUST BE DELISTED!!!!

GO BLUES!

Play Bannister? LOL. He needs to be delisted, not played.

 

[Effes]

I want to see us NOT win another 3 games.

I want J Russell to be given a game soon

I want L Whitnall to play well to boost his trade value

 

[XXX KINGS]

All I want to see is some team unity and some passion. I have never, in my whole life, seen a Carlton team so un-carltonlike.

 

[blues76]

I want to see us NOT win another 3 games.

I want J Russell to be given a game soon

I want L Whitnall to play well to boost his trade value

EXACTLY................
givin me the absolute s**ts that people are talkin about "oh we're so and so out of the eight, lets win games..."
finish last, 4.5 wins, play russell and carlos...

 

[Thrawn]

Hopefully we remain bottom and not win more then 2 games. We need the priority.

Best off to finish 2nd last and assume the Hawks won't win another one and we'll win two.

But I'll be ********ed off if we don't show passion and a competitive spirit. I'm sick of all this "let's tank" BS because historically it has not ensured premiership success. And not all top end picks turn out to be champions either, hence there is a risk.

I have pointed out many times that the bulk of good and better players around today were picked under #10. You make a list of all the players you consider "good" or better running around today, and tell me where they were picked in the draft. Chances are, the majority of them were picked under #10. Good drafting, good list management, good trades, confidence and a little bit of luck is what wins you premierships, not high draft picks.

I suppose you could throw in talent too, but that and potential is not measurable and is not a constant. Just because a kid was picked at 80 does not mean he is a talentless hack who will never be a star. Also note that just because a kid is picked at #1 doesn't mean he's going to be a certain star 300 game player either. Being at the bottom means squat - it just means you have destroyed your pride, and have added another spoon in which we should avoid.

Take a glance at the teams who during the 90s were at the bottom for lengthy periods of time - and tell me, how many of them have been successful? If we have the ability to win, then we should use it. If not, then that is fair enough. But when we have a few games in the balance and have a chance of winning - but instead throw them because we want picks then it'll be a sad day for the club. This to take a punt on a couple of kids who may or may not become superstars, when in reality, there are plenty of gems throughtout the whole draft. And not just at the top.

 

[Thrawn]

Hopefully we remain bottom and not win more then 2 games.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. You should never hope to lose on the basis that a talent you pick up MIGHT meet expectations.

We need the priority.

No we don't, we just need kids who can play well. Talent is a hard quality to measure.

Use the first 2 picks to grab the 2 best players available

What makes you think they will become the best?

and let's hope we get a couple of 200+ career Carlton boys.

Yes, it's all about hope, isn't it? And what if they flop? Our recruiters need to work hard to ensure that we will at least find some gems lower in the draft in case one or two of the high picks fail to deliever. I'm all for wanting high picks as it looks irresistable, but at what price? Even if we finsih big table, there is a good cahnce our pics may be better in the long run than those picked at the bottom. History shows it.

 

[Muji]

excellent stuff thrawny

 

[Lajon]

Best off to finish 2nd last and assume the Hawks won't win another one and we'll win two.

But I'll be ********ed off if we don't show passion and a competitive spirit. I'm sick of all this "let's tank" BS because historically it has not ensured premiership success. And not all top end picks turn out to be champions either, hence there is a risk.

I have pointed out many times that the bulk of good and better players around today were picked under #10. You make a list of all the players you consider "good" or better running around today, and tell me where they were picked in the draft. Chances are, the majority of them were picked under #10. Good drafting, good list management, good trades, confidence and a little bit of luck is what wins you premierships, not high draft picks.

I suppose you could throw in talent too, but that and potential is not measurable and is not a constant. Just because a kid was picked at 80 does not mean he is a talentless hack who will never be a star. Also note that just because a kid is picked at #1 doesn't mean he's going to be a certain star 300 game player either. Being at the bottom means squat - it just means you have destroyed your pride, and have added another spoon in which we should avoid.

Take a glance at the teams who during the 90s were at the bottom for lengthy periods of time - and tell me, how many of them have been successful? If we have the ability to win, then we should use it. If not, then that is fair enough. But when we have a few games in the balance and have a chance of winning - but instead throw them because we want picks then it'll be a sad day for the club. This to take a punt on a couple of kids who may or may not become superstars, when in reality, there are plenty of gems throughtout the whole draft. And not just at the top.

So many holes in your thoughts. Firstly, who suggested tanking? Stupid comment to make.

No, there is no evidence of priority picks resulting in premierships but there sure as hell will be soon with the Saints.

The science of drafting kids has changed enormously within the last 5 years and the certainty surrounding the top players in the country is PROVEN. The FACT is, if we finish bottom, we have a huge chance of securing a couple future stars as opposed to floundering in the middle of the road ala North and hoping we can find a hidden talent later in the draft. How’s our track record in late stages of the draft been Thrawn??

Obviously, a kid taken with pick 80 can turn into a star. But it is obvious and a fact when looking at past drafts that this is highly unlikely.

Thrawn, it may sound nice in theory to live in a world (or in this case the AFL) where we can all hold hands, smile, pump each other up and believe we are better then we are and hope that a flag comes along. The current system in place rewards teams bottoming out. Nothing will set us back further then winning a few games late in the year and finishing a bit higher. It's very naive of you to think so. Ask any AFL identity (or more importantly, a past Carlton identity) for the major reason our list is so sh*tful. Obviously there are extraneous factors such as poor management etc but the draft picks we lost hurt us, they hurt us a lot.

No one wants to see their club lose. Do you think I enjoy it after seeing this club dominate for so long? No, but the quickest way for us to improve is obvious, and in fact out of our hands. Tanking doesn't even come into it. Noone has suggested tanking. Prendergast, Sporn and co will ensure we lose without tanking. We should simply spend this time wisely and try the kids.

To finish off, let's look at the top 2 picks from the last 4 years of drafts:
2000
1. St Kilda - Nick Riewoldt (Southport)
2. St Kilda - Justin Koschitzke (Murray Bushrangers)
2001
1. Hawthorn - Luke Hodge (Geelong U18)
2. St Kilda - Luke Ball (Sandringham U18)
2002
1. St Kilda - Brendon Goddard (Gippsland Power)
2. Kangaroos - Daniel Wells (Peel Thunder)
2003
1. Western Bulldogs - Adam Cooney (West Adelaide)
2. Carlton - Andrew Walker (Bendigo Pioneers)
2004
1. Richmond - Brett Deledio (Murray Bushrangers)
2. Hawhtorn - Jarryd Roughead (Gippsland Power)

Oh well I guess you're right Thrawn, we don't want anything near the top 2 picks, only an equal chance they'll be as successful as a kid taken later

Get over yourself (your passion and commitment to Carlton is no greater then mine or anyone else) and just look forward to seeing some kids develop and look to the future.

 

[gadj1976]

Yep, priority picks for one year will guarantee we get first pick and that's all. Also, that priority pick might be good for us in a year or two's time, not in 2006 necessarily.

I'm sort of disillusioned in one aspect and that is why we haven't tried to pick up a ruckman in the past three years. But that's another story.

To answer the question, I want us to drop N Stevens and anyone else who continually coughs up the ball. Even Kouta missed Fev by 5 metres when in the open on the weekend. Our skills are SHOCKING and need to be fixed before we can do anything. So your answer - drop guys who cause turnovers (Lappin, 8 on the weekend) and improve our woeful skills.

 

[Fevalenko25]

GIVE RUSSELL A GAME!!!!!!!!!$!%@%@

 

[Thrawn]

So many holes in your thoughts. Firstly, who suggested tanking? Stupid comment to make.

No it's not. I've seen a few from TBV (and here) the idea of "tanking" games. If you wish I can provide you with various links ... it's an observation. You and BM for one said it:

Hopefully we remain bottom and not win more then 2 games.

So I suppose we win the next 2 games on the trot, and what then? That's right, you hope for them to lose? Even when some of these games are winniable or in one of these games we have a chance to win, but lose a pick? You'll never know if the team is tanking for sure in such situations or not - but it's not different in principle if you hope for them to lose.

No, there is no evidence of priority picks resulting in premierships but there sure as hell will be soon with the Saints.

Time will tell.

How’s our track record in late stages of the draft been Thrawn??

Probably a lot better than in early stages, most recently.

Obviously, a kid taken with pick 80 can turn into a star. But it is obvious and a fact when looking at past drafts that this is highly unlikely.

Of course it is, but that is not my point. My point was that high draft picks turning into stars are not certainties in life.

Nothing will set us back further then winning a few games late in the year and finishing a bit higher.

But how do you know? Look at Geelong and how well they have done ... for now they are looking more of a premiership threat than St. Kilda. And they didn't need to bottom out for long periods of time, nor gain a priority pick. As I said, getting the #1 and #2 picks won't mean we will be successful - I hope we will though, don't get me wrong - but I don't precieve predictions of the future to be facts or certainties.

It's very naive of you to think so.

Think what, exactly? All I am saying is that priority picks ensure nothing, there are NEVER certainties in the draft and certainly just because a kid is picked #1 doesn't mean he will become a star, but he might. Now please tell me, how is this naive?

Ask any AFL identity (or more importantly, a past Carlton identity) for the major reason our list is so sh*tful. Obviously there are extraneous factors such as poor management etc but the draft picks we lost hurt us, they hurt us a lot.

We've wasted a lot of draft pick opportunities, done a lot of bad deals - most of them during Parkin's last year. All of these must be taken into account, they have a significant impact - the impace of losing our draft picks will not be known for a few years yet. It will take time to see.

Tanking doesn't even come into it. Noone has suggested tanking.

Really?

I want to see us NOT win another 3 games.

Sounds like like it to be. No matter if it's just by throwing it or by the team being too crap - the result is the same. A loss. Something you hope happens for what, a "potnetial" superstar? Just one player?

To finish off, let's look at the top 2 picks from the last 4 years of drafts:
2000
1. St Kilda - Nick Riewoldt (Southport)
2. St Kilda - Justin Koschitzke (Murray Bushrangers)
2001
1. Hawthorn - Luke Hodge (Geelong U18)
2. St Kilda - Luke Ball (Sandringham U18)
2002
1. St Kilda - Brendon Goddard (Gippsland Power)
2. Kangaroos - Daniel Wells (Peel Thunder)
2003
1. Western Bulldogs - Adam Cooney (West Adelaide)
2. Carlton - Andrew Walker (Bendigo Pioneers)
2004
1. Richmond - Brett Deledio (Murray Bushrangers)
2. Hawhtorn - Jarryd Roughead (Gippsland Power)

How conveinent of you to ignore all the other years where supposed superstars of the future turn out ot be total flops (by that I mean they did not live up to their #1 ranking, not even close). Roach, Johnstone, Fraser ... the list goes on.

And so far, out of all those players you have listed, Riewoldt is the only genuine star (superstar actually), the rest haven't done enough to warrant that title yet. But does that mean all of them will be? Maybe, maybe not. It's not a yes or no answer.

Oh well I guess you're right Thrawn, we don't want anything near the top 2 picks, only an equal chance they'll be as successful as a kid taken later

Hang on, where did I even *hint* that my view is 100% correct and infalliable? And where did I say that we don't want the top 2 picks? Jesus ... you'd think you didn't read anything I had said, instead just making up these assumptions. I'd galdly take the hghest picks, I'm just saying that the team should remain competitive and that nothing is certain in the draft.

Get over yourself (your passion and commitment to Carlton is no greater then mine or anyone else) and just look forward to seeing some kids develop and look to the future.

What total crap. Stop trying to make me look like some arrogant hothead ... I am confident in where we are going and in time we will have a good list. But please don't insult me with this garbage. I wrote my piece on how priority picks are not certainties, that history has shown it and that we should *never* tank. Not to metnion that there are stil la lot of gems in the draft, priority picks or not!

I am still waiting for you to show where the holes are - after all not all top picks end up superstars and the majority of "stars" running around today were not priority picks/were not picked in the top 10. Talent is a quality you can't measure easily - nothing is proven until the kids put in the performances to justify their ranking. Nothing wrong with those statements at all - I think you have misinterupted what I was saying.

That said, I already mentioned a good scenario: we finish 15th, Collingwood last - even if it means all teams win > 5 games. Hoping to finish bottom hurts, but there is no evidence to suggest that it will make a difference. Only predictions.

 

[Thrawn]

Lajon, please read this thread too - kinda what I am trying to point out:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3113276

Dan is SPOT ON in this thread. I share similar opinions, getting a priority pick doesn't make certain of anything. You can hope, but that doesn't mean it will be what you desire. Walker may become a star, but I am not going to say that he will become one because anything can happen.

And I actually find it insulting for you to say: "your passion and commitment to Carlton is no greater then mine or anyone else" - very demeaning. Not to mention it being utter tripe - those that have seen how I am would know that I would never be above other posters in terms of passion or commitment.

Or are you trying to label me as something that I am not, on the basis that you misunderstood what my point actually was?

 

[NavyBlueBlood]

Thrawn, it may sound nice in theory to live in a world (or in this case the AFL) where we can all hold hands, smile, pump each other up and believe we are better then we are and hope that a flag comes along. The current system in place rewards teams bottoming out. Nothing will set us back further then winning a few games late in the year and finishing a bit higher. It's very naive of you to think so. Ask any AFL identity (or more importantly, a past Carlton identity) for the major reason our list is so sh*tful. Obviously there are extraneous factors such as poor management etc but the draft picks we lost hurt us, they hurt us a lot.

No one wants to see their club lose. Do you think I enjoy it after seeing this club dominate for so long? No, but the quickest way for us to improve is obvious, and in fact out of our hands. Tanking doesn't even come into it. Noone has suggested tanking. Prendergast, Sporn and co will ensure we lose without tanking. We should simply spend this time wisely and try the kids.

I agree with that. Bottoming out is rewarded with the best few young players in the land. Finishing mid-table won't be as rewarding for our re-building process, anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[Thrawn]

I agree with that. Bottoming out is rewarded with the best few young players in the land. Finishing mid-table won't be as rewarding for our re-building process, anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Might not. Unless you have a time machine and are from the future? Can you tell me the lotto numbers while you're at it?

As for kidding youself, ask Geelong. They didn't need to bottom out, and at present they are looking more of a premiership threat than St. Kilda. That's living proof ... the club only need to draft and trade smartly, and with a bit of luck.

Why must there be only one option in our eyes, when clearly other options can work just as well, if not better?

 

[Lajon]

And I actually find it insulting for you to say: "your passion and commitment to Carlton is no greater then mine or anyone else" - very demeaning. Not to mention it being utter tripe - those that have seen how I am would know that I would never be above other posters in terms of passion or commitment.

Fair call. I do apologise for that comment. We should be able to share opinions here without getting personal. I just got a bit carried away. Clearly we all realise we're in a rough patch and all want the best for the club.

 

[Thrawn]

No probs.

Hmmm... I pressed edit instead of quote, I'm sorry about this. It's late and I didn't realise it.

 

[Thrawn]

I never said we should tank so do not accuse me of that. I said we should play the youngsters and hopefully will remain bottom (my hope has nothing to do with the side tanking). I would be disgusted if the side threw matches.

Good, I also too, hope that we play the youngsters.

Did you read my post? "The science of drafting kids has changed enormously within the last 5 years and the certainty surrounding the top players in the country is PROVEN". These days it is becoming a near certainty.

Top young players, I agree. But you can't predict with accuracy who will be a better player and who will not. Talent is affected by so many variables that we cannot say for sure - for instance, a player may have all the talent in the world but without confidence and the mental ability, he won't be effective.

You can't measure talent until the player actually uses it at the highest level in comparision to other players in the league. Anything before is simply guessing.

Implying that the chances are even is ridiculous.

Didn't say that.

The facts are in front of you. Have a look through the past 5 years drafts. You will see quality deplete a helluva lot as the draft gets deeper.

That entirely depends on how all these players will go in the future. You can predict all you want, but nothing is certain. For instance what if in 5 years time Goddard remains the same as he is with no effect and someone who was picked late in the draft suddenly bursts and wins an AA jumper?

You need more time to come to a conclusion, perhas in a few years when they are at their peak.

And obviously guns come out late in the draft. But it's a lot harder to identify them, and use a pick wisely. Reidwoldt has paid a huge part in transfroming the Saints, as Judd Ball and Hodge look to be doing and as Cooney will with the Dogs.

But these players alone did not make the difference. I am not doubting that a top pick will most likely become a good player, but we don't know for certain.

That's not true. Recruiters have proven that talent is easily measurable with the top picks of the last 5 years reinforcing my point.

Ok, so based on these rankings do you think Goddard is more talented than Wells? Talent is only important when it is used more often than not. Rating on how players' careers will go based on a ranking system will never be perfect.

I do not want to see the club scrape out a couple "honorable" wins this year and finish 12'th or something, get another random midfielder who was a good underage player and hope for the best.

We're not good enough to finish 12th.

We are shocking and I want to see this list totally rebuilt with the cream of the crop.

It's going to take a few years yet.

I wish somehow we could track 2 possible scenarios. One, where my side "Carlton 1" bottoms out, rebuilds through priority picks and the other where your side "Carlton 2" witht he same list, finishes 11'th-13'th a coupel years in a row. Let's see who wins a flag first.

With a real life analogy, we could use St. Kilda and Geelong. And it wouldn't be the same list either, we can still pick in the draft (albeit lower).

Anyway, the final point is that it doesn't really matter what you or I or anyone else wants to happen. "What will be, will be" and I am confident witht he talentless, heartless list we've got, we will get the priority picks and we can finally get the clean out we supporters deserve.

Got nothing to do with what we want to happen, I was pointing out that you don't need to bottom out to have a good list, even a chance of success. Personally, if it were last vs a few more honourable wins and avoiding the spoon, I'll take the latter because I am confident enough that the club will pick the right kids for the rebuilding process without giving up their pride.

The rest is in God's hand.

 

[bibi01]

22 blokes giving it 100% each week and when the 22 walk off the ground, know they have given everything they have got for the PROUD navy blue jumper of Carlton.

 

[Mentallo]

22 blokes giving it 100% each week and when the 22 walk off the ground, know they have given everything they have got for the PROUD navy blue jumper of Carlton.

1. What is said above.
2. Some sort of game plan.
3. 10 wins. ( Might be happy with 5 though)
And the one which i wil cop the most flak for.
4. Kouta chaired off the ground after we defeat Nth in round 22 after he had annouced his retirement earlier in the week.
Goes without saying he would prob be chaired off the ground even if we lost.

 

[NavyBlueBlood]

Might not. Unless you have a time machine and are from the future? Can you tell me the lotto numbers while you're at it?

As for kidding youself, ask Geelong. They didn't need to bottom out, and at present they are looking more of a premiership threat than St. Kilda. That's living proof ... the club only need to draft and trade smartly, and with a bit of luck.

Why must there be only one option in our eyes, when clearly other options can work just as well, if not better?

ok, so according to Thrawn its better to win a few games, finish 10th and get say pick number 7, and mid-range pick in the PSD?

Who says Geelong look more a premiership threat than the Saints? Because Geelong are higher on the ladder at the moment?

ps, not having a dig at you mate, just want to see your logic...

 

[Thrawn]

ok, so according to Thrawn its better to win a few games, finish 10th and get say pick number 7, and mid-range pick in the PSD?

Never said that scenario was better. Only said that nothing is certain in the draft. Probably not going to finish 10th either - rather would not want another sppon though at the expense of a kid who may or may not be a star. It's an unknown quantity - you can't determine who will be better until it actually happens.

Who says Geelong look more a premiership threat than the Saints? Because Geelong are higher on the ladder at the moment?

Plenty of people. Maybe not yourself, but judging them so far this year Geelong certainly look the more dangerous.

ps, not having a dig at you mate, just want to see your logic...

The logic is just. There should not be just one option - it may look to be the best at the moment, but by predicting it and saying it will mean it will actually happen? No, time will tell. There is no "will" or "will not", there is a might.

That said, what if there are no good players in the pre-season draft? I'm just saying that finishing bottom doesn't mean squat UNTIL said picks make an impact significant enough. They will I hope, but nothing's a given. You can still be mid-table, still pick up great kids and still play good footy. Geelong are living proof of that and atm are closer than St. Kilda, based on what has transpired this year.

You then can cite Richmond about finishing mid-table, but they recruited poorly for most of that time. Providing you draft smartly, organise good trades and with a bit of luck, it is not unreasonable to assume that you can follow the same path BY NOT finishing bottom. Then again seing as we're ********, we probably will. If we win 3 more games and avoid the spoon, that would be great. But we lose a priority pick - but who knows, in time we may regret it or may not. What if another pick turns out to be better? Imagine if Collingwood didn't get Fraser in 1999 - do you think it would've made a significant impact?

 

[Effes]

Geelong look more dangerous than St Kilda?

When the teams meet with full strength sides, the Saints will win easy - just like they proved last year

They were a class above Geelong.

You have to take into consideration the luck Geelong have had with F/S picks. Take Scarlett and Ablett out and see how they go.

St Kilda, once they regain their gun players, look far more dangerous than Geelong