What future do Essendon have post Sheedy ?

[Longy413]

Kangaroos???
Port Adelaide???

Kangaroos:
2006 - 7 Wins
2007 - 12 Wins
Difference - 5 Wins

Port Adelaide:
2006 - 8 Wins
2007 - 13 Wins
Difference - 5 Wins

Essendon:
2006 - 3.5 Wins
2007 - 10 Wins
Difference - 6.5 Wins


Oh and

You seem upset

Not at all.

clearly theres a divergence of views

Fancy that. Disagreements over footy, who would have thought?

appears to me your an Essendon fan that is passionate about their club

Well done.

but possibly not completely realistic about where they are at and what they are doing to rectify it.

It seems to me that you do not have all the information and facts to make a judgement. Perhaps this is what is creating the divergence of views.

More than happy to discuss this topic, I believe it's warranted.
But I'll do it with someone that knows what they are talking about.

You have failed to recognise the changes that were put in place in July last year. You have failed to recognise that the review process began more than 18 months ago. You have failed to recognise that our current board has only been in place for 18 months. You have failed to recognise that we have improved. You have failed...

 

[doppleganger]

Anthony and N Brown have played what, two games between them. Yet they will adequately replace Presti, Wakelin, Clement etc but Gumbleton, Neagle, Johns can't replace Lloyd and Lucas.

U do realise that clement - 8, presti - 14 and wakelin - 12 have missed plenty of games this year

Maxwell - 20, O'Brien - 18, Goldsack - 12, Cox - 8 have had all played major roles this year for us!

Michael - 20, Lucas - 20, Fletcher - 18, Lloyd - 17 have all played the majority of the season

Gumby - 3, Johns - 6, Neagle - 0 aint done anything!

We've got no one to replace Hird yet you lot have got plenty of options to replace Buckley.

Hird played 15 games so far in 07, he is still ur most influential player, and wont be replaced

Buckley aint played a game in 07.......he has already been replaced!!

And we will most likely be one game behind Collingwood at the end of this weekend however things aren't looking good at Windy Hill but they are at Lexus.

Says who? We beat Sydney in Sydney convincingly earlier in the year, more confident of beating them than i was of beating the dees, who we always struggle against!

 

[understudy]

It seems to me that you do not have all the information and facts to make a judgement. Perhaps this is what is creating the divergence of views.

Wouldnt of thought so, Im across a lot of the stuff going on down there.

 

[kickingoals]

the most interseting thing will be to see how much of a clean out goes on , now that sheedy wont be around too hang onto his boys , jobe watson , camporeale,cole,bolton,heffernan,johns,there is more but cant recall at the minute .

sheedys recruiting tactics of picking up the mathew allans and campos murphys all these type of guys that were at the end of their careers has not helped the bumbers cause at all , if they had of drafted better they could have been a fair bit better off today ...but i expect too see some rebuilding take place next year under whoever coaches , but do not envy whoever gets the gig as he will be under intence scrutiny from inside and ouside the ess fc , i say whoever it is wont last 3 years ....

 

[Daytripper]

Michael - 20, Lucas - 20, Fletcher - 18, Lloyd - 17 have all played the majority of the season

Gumby - 3, Johns - 6, Neagle - 0 aint done anything!

And what would you like the selectors to do ? Drop Fletcher, Michael, Lucas and Lloyd just to prove to a couple of clowns on Big Footy that we do have adequate reserves coming through.

Cwood had no choice but to replace Presti, Clement etc. If they weren't injured, then I'm sure O'Brien, Goldsack and Cox would be biding their time at Williamstown just like our young players are. And I'm sure, that the uninformed would also believe that Cwood had a seriously ageing list.

Says who? We beat Sydney in Sydney convincingly earlier in the year, more confident of beating them than i was of beating the dees, who we always struggle against!

Says me - lets not forget you couldn't beat Richmond 2 starts back. And have yet to win 2 games in a row for - hmm how long is it now ?

 

[doppleganger]

And what would you like the selectors to do ? Drop Fletcher, Michael, Lucas and Lloyd just to prove to a couple of clowns on Big Footy that we do have adequate reserves coming through.

No, the point being made is that these guys are the blokes who Essendon still rely on......they are champions and are still producing the goods, but they will start to slow down, the young kids are unknown.

Of course Essendon fans will think they will be stars, opposition supporters take more convincing.......

Cwood had no choice but to replace Presti, Clement etc. If they weren't injured, then I'm sure O'Brien, Goldsack and Cox would be biding their time at Williamstown just like our young players are. And I'm sure, that the uninformed would also believe that Cwood had a seriously ageing list.

Ur point??

Collingwood's youngsters have almost got us into the finals, they did it without all our old senior players.......we dont rely on our old blokes that were around back in 02-03 anymore. Essendon still rely on the blokes who were around in 99,00,01!

Says me - lets not forget you couldn't beat Richmond 2 starts back. And have yet to win 2 games in a row for - hmm how long is it now ?

Richmond have the wood on us, beat us in 04, 05, 06, 07

Pies play well against Sydney

in 04 and 05 when we were hopeless the swans could only beat us by a kick, and in 06, 07 when we have been better we have easily beat sydney both times!

weird but id back us in to beat sydney over Richmond or Melbourne!

 

[wazzabp]

Anthony and N Brown have played what, two games between them. Yet they will adequately replace Presti, Wakelin, Clement etc but Gumbleton, Neagle, Johns can't replace Lloyd and Lucas.

We've got no one to replace Hird yet you lot have got plenty of options to replace Buckley.



And we will most likely be one game behind Collingwood at the end of this weekend however things aren't looking good at Windy Hill but they are at Lexus.

Lets take the eye patch off and try and look at things a bit more objectively in the future, okay.

Exactly what I was thinking.
In post 33, Doppleganger was having a crack at our supporters for listing our potential future talent, yet goes and posts the exact same thing in relation to the Pies.
The only reason Collingwood have thrown in the young guys is because they have to because of injured older senior players, who will come back into the team at the young guys expense when fit.
These young guys have contributed to the wins, but taking the next step up and doing it on a regular basis is more important than getting under the guards of some teams in their first or second year.

 

[Longy413]

Wouldnt of thought so, Im across a lot of the stuff going on down there.

You've given us nothing other than inaccuracies.

If you actually want to have an objective debate, start by being factual.

 

[steviewonder36]

Kevin Sheedy has played a significant part in their re-build/re-generation since he arrived in 1981.

I am sure there will be a down-period for them, as they rebuild their list under a new coach.

I can still remember them as rabble back in the seventies.

 

[doppleganger]

In post 33, Doppleganger was having a crack at our supporters for listing our potential future talent, yet goes and posts the exact same thing in relation to the Pies.

Essendon supporters rattle off the same names all the time, Jetta, Houli, Dempsey, Gumby etc. all have done nothing at AFL level.

I was responding to a direct request to list the pies young KP defenders and clearance players, gave 4 KP defenders 2 have played more than half the games this year, the other two aint played any games this year.

Also said we struggle for clearance players

The only reason Collingwood have thrown in the young guys is because they have to because of injured older senior players, who will come back into the team at the young guys expense when fit.

Presti has been dropped is playing at Willi, whilst Goldsack, Harry O, Maxwell are all in the team.

These young guys have contributed to the wins, but taking the next step up and doing it on a regular basis is more important than getting under the guards of some teams in their first or second year.

What do you mean doing it on a regular basis?? We have won the equal 3rd number of home and away games of all clubs in the last 2 seasons! The kids were winning games for us all year......they will get us into finals, they are keeping experienced blokes like Licca and Presti in the twos!

And what does Collingwood have to do with Essendon post Sheedy? Perhaps the dons can learn something off the pies in terms of how to develop kids whilst winning games of footy!

 

[SOT4]

Doppleganger your logic is very faulty. You say that essendon are in trouble because the older guys are still playing well. When essendon supporters say that we have young kids who could replace them you say noone can know how good they will be. If thats the case then how can essendon be in trouble. Very few of our young players have not shown anything and look like bad players so how can we be in trouble? Is every team who has players over 25 playing well in trouble?

 

[Longy413]

And what does Collingwood have to do with Essendon post Sheedy? Perhaps the dons can learn something off the pies in terms of how to develop kids whilst winning games of footy!

So we drop Lucas, Lloyd and Fletcher?

Or we just tell them not to play to their best so we can slot Winderlich, Stanton etc ahead of them in the best players list?

I don't get it.

We've played a lot of kids, seven debutants, we've won 11 games coming off a 3 win season.

But that counts for nothing because top shelf footballers are playing well?

 

[doppleganger]

Doppleganger your logic is very faulty. You say that essendon are in trouble because the older guys are still playing well. When essendon supporters say that we have young kids who could replace them you say noone can know how good they will be. If thats the case then how can essendon be in trouble. Very few of our young players have not shown anything and look like bad players so how can we be in trouble? Is every team who has players over 25 playing well in trouble?

Where did i say Essendon are in trouble?

I didn't start the thread i actually posted that i think that Stanton, Winders, Watson and Davey have showed that they are quality youngsters when a previous poster only credited Ryder and Gumby.

I then pointed out that plenty of Essendon supporters claim kids like Jetta, Houli, Dempsey, Reimers, Hocking as quality youngsters when they are yet to show anything at AFL level.

Some Essendon bloke cracked the sooks and did the usual well Collingwood rely on the same old blokes....which is bulltish.

Never said anything about my view on the dons post Sheedy, just commented that Dons fans rattle off unproven kids as quality youngsters which is ridiculous!

 

[Longy413]

Dons fans rattle off unproven kids as quality youngsters which is ridiculous!

You can have a quality youngster that's unproven.

Just like you can have a talented youngster that is unproven.

 

[doppleganger]

So we drop Lucas, Lloyd and Fletcher?

Or we just tell them not to play to their best so we can slot Winderlich, Stanton etc ahead of them in the best players list?

I don't get it.

We've played a lot of kids, seven debutants, we've won 11 games coming off a 3 win season.

But that counts for nothing because top shelf footballers are playing well?

You again are getting ur knickers in a twist over nothing Longy. I never said anything about where i think Essendon will end up post Sheedy. I just commented that many Essendon fans trot out names of young kids, see post 32, as evidence as to why they will be fine. Which is laughable as they have done nothing yet.

Then in post 40 daytripper decided to play the man, and post a list of Collingwood's old players for some reason, even tho only two of them have made significant contributions in 07.

Dont get why all the Collingwood talk, tis a thread bout Essendon post Sheedy, yet dons supporters are doing anything but talk about Essendon!

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Presti has been dropped is playing at Willi, whilst Goldsack, Harry O, Maxwell are all in the team.

Whose this new kid that's taken Presti' spot..... what's his name? Wakelin is it? .. never heard of him - any good?

 

[Longy413]

You again are getting ur knickers in a twist over nothing Longy.

They're not.

I've simply made a statement that seemingly has gone missing on you and you've been able to address.

A statement that was aimed at the reflections you and other posters have made in this thread and in others.

Which is laughable as they have done nothing yet.

It's not laughable to suggest Scott Gumbleton or Leroy Jetta will be damn fine AFL footballers.

yet dons supporters are doing anything but talk about Essendon!

I think you're only reading what you want to read.

 

[doppleganger]

Young kids..um jetta, davey, monfries, reimers, hocking, houli..we will be fine. We had a ripper of a draft in the last draft, so we'll be sweet.

That was the original post i quoted

Thing is most of our players are not old, and the ones that are have long term replacements!

Fletcher- Johns
Michael- Darcy Daniher
Hird- Monfries

Then you add Jetta who has shown enough this season for us to believe he is the real deal. Our youngsters are fine!

That is one later on

You can have a quality youngster that's unproven.

Just like you can have a talented youngster that is unproven.

All im saying is that those blokes aint done nothing yet. Darcy Daniher aint even on ur list and blokes are talking him up as a replacement for Michael!!

But blokes like u cant handle that, dont understand y really? Not slagging em off saying they are shite, just saying they aint proven themselves.

 

[cakewalk06]

it's a tough gig for whoever takes over, will lose Hird, Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher, Michael before they are a legitimate contender... it's rebuilding time

 

[Longy413]

Darcy Daniher aint even on ur list and blokes are talking him up as a replacement for Michael!!

Because people over and over again make comment that we don't draft kids, that we don't draft to fix our weaknesses.

We do.

People say you we don't have replacements for Fletcher.
Well no, we don't in our current 22 because you can only play so many tall defenders at one time.

But we have drafted them. They are playing at Bendigo.

If someone says we have drafted Lee, Johns, Charters, Dick etc to draft Fletcher, no one is saying they are going to be great players. It's simply a statement saying those are the blokes that we have drafted to step up and fill the spots.

No one is saying they are stars, the majority are simply just saying they are there.

Again, people say we don't have pace in the midfield. We do lack it, but we've also drafted to fix that. We've drafted Jetta, Davey, Dempsey, Houli, Nash, Reimers.

That doesn't mean they're going to be any good, but we have drafted them. They're there.

You're only reading what you want to read. We have weaknesses, we've drafted to rectify those. The process has been put in place and many people have missed that. (EDIT - See the post above for a great example).

People are forgetting that the rebuild doesn't start after Hird, Lloyd, Fletcher, Lucas are gone. It started 2-3 years ago, it started with a complete overhaul of the football department and it continues over the next 2-4 years while they (minus Hird) are still on the list.

Now we play the waiting game.

 

[doppleganger]

Whose this new kid that's taken Presti' spot..... what's his name? Wakelin is it? .. never heard of him - any good?

Pies ins this week were Buckley, Goldsack, Clarke

Supposedly the young blokes will make way once the senior blokes come back......fact is the young blokes are keeping presti and licca out of the team!

Malthouse put in Goldsack ahead of Presti, and Clarke ahead of Licca.

While at Essendon Watson is dropped, Houli cant get a game and M.Johnson and Campo are brought into the team!!

Whatever works for u blokes i suppose, u win by playing the old blokes, we win by playing the kids!

 

[doppleganger]

That doesn't mean they're going to be any good, but we have drafted them. They're there.

Many dons fans seem to think otherwise, they aren't waiting for them to prove themselves, they just assume that all will make it!

Now we play the waiting game.

That is what i am saying, dons future is very uncertain....im sure plenty of Richmond fans thought they were looking the goods at the beginning of 07.....but the kids aint come on as hoped.

 

[Longy413]

While at Essendon Watson is dropped, Houli cant get a game and M.Johnson and Campo are brought into the team!!

Did they come into the side in the week in which we played a first gamer?

Did they come into the same side in which we also played a second and third gamer?

Did they come into the side that had a kid with 30 games experience playing 1st ruck and a second year player as second ruck?

Did they come into a side that had a kid playing his second game, playing at CHF?

Did they come into the same side that had 10 players with under 50 games experience? And 12 players all up with either less than 50 games or were 21 and under?

Again, you're only reading what you want to read.

 

[doppleganger]

Again, you're only reading what you want to read.

No im just saying like all new draftees, the supporters have big wraps on them, all are gun juniors, but that doesn't translate into becoming quality AFL footy players. U blokes dont like reading that.

The rest of my posting is in response to Essendon supporters talking about Collingwood for some reason. Happy to compare youngsters and senior players performance til the cows come home because the pies have been better! But that is irrelevant to Essendon post Sheedy.

 

[Longy413]

No im just saying like all new draftees, the supporters have big wraps on them, all are gun juniors, but that doesn't translate into becoming quality AFL footy players. U blokes dont like reading that.

That's not what you're saying at all.

You're sighting that MJ and Campo came into our side. You implied that was at the expense of young players. But you missed that a first gamer also came into the side.

The rest of my posting is in response to Essendon supporters talking about Collingwood for some reason.

There's two or three of them, they're no Macpie.
Get over it.

Happy to compare youngsters and senior players performance til the cows come home because the pies have been better!

We already know you're in no position to do that because you don't know enough about Essendon or our young players.

We know you're in no position to make that comparison, and we know you're going to trot out the old Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher are Essendon's best players line. Well **** me they're ****ing great footballers.

So we won't go down that road.