What if a team didn't pick a ruckman?

[juss]

I'm not talking about when sometimes teams will send a tall midfielder to contest a few contests to give the no.1 ruck a rest, eg. Shaun Grigg for the Tigers, I'm talking about not selecting a specialist ruckman in the 22, eg. not picking Toby Nankervis.

Now I rate Nankervis and I wouldn't drop him, but what would happen if teams adopted the strategy of just playing an extra midfielder or utility in the place of the no.1 ruck.

Would it disadvantage the team? Would it advantage the team by having an extra big body at every stoppage, and another running player to add to the 22?
Could the game evolve this way, and could this be an evolution in the game one day? Or will there always be a place for a 200cm player picked primarily to compete at stoppages?

I think a lot of people will still say a ruckman is important, but these days I'm not sure if the old school no.1 ruck is actually a bigger asset to a side than just having an extra big body at ground level.

It's an interesting discussion and it wouldn't surprise me to see more teams play more tall midfielders at stoppages to have extra presence at ground level through 2018.

 

[demondavey]

I reckon you need one. A good one. Gawn in 2016 for example acted as another midfielder. He was elite. If you let a big guy just cut loose without a direct opponent and he is half decent, and let's face it, you're going to be if you're playing AFL, then the implications for your opposing side could be dire. Sure you could try and go defensive on the hit outs, but nothing stops that big guy going back into a hole without an opponent or going forward without a defender.

Imagine Cox without a direct opponent? He would have 5 brownlows. Even a poor ruckman makes a gun ruck accountable.

 

[demondavey]

Think about Nankervis (who I rate) just constantly dropping in in front of Hurley, Lever, Taylor, McGovern etc. Someone has to match him, and if McGovern tries to get off Riewoldt then he is roaming free to do what he wants.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It happened in 2010, when Hawthorn didn’t have a fit one to play against North, after a late out.

Hodge was forced to do the honours, letting McIntosh and Goldstein do as they pleased.

North won the game quite easily.


Brad Scott then had a teary after the game because he didn’t think it was fair that Hawthorn could make a change like that prior to the game, and change match ups so severely.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/04/26/scott-says-what-the-ruck/

 

[demondavey]

It happened in 2010, when Hawthorn didn’t have a fit one to play against North, after a late out.

Hodge was forced to do the honours, letting McIntosh and Goldstein do as they pleased.

North won the game quite easily.


Brad Scott then had a teary after the game because he didn’t think it was fair that Hawthorn could make a change like that prior to the game, and change match ups so severely.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/04/26/scott-says-what-the-ruck/

I think removing them would show how underrated they are. McEvoy for example. Gun.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Ruckmen are that weird cancelling out effect.

Go in without one, you're cooked. Go in with an amazing one, you're looking good, everything in between is a breakeven.

 

[Farm Boy]

A good ruckman starts the show. If he has good mids under him, and a good lead up forward, there should be times where teams kick goals without the ball touching the opposition. I wouldn't go in without a ruck. That would be conceding the game.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Imagine Cox without a direct opponent? He would have 5 brownlows. Even a poor ruckman makes a gun ruck accountable.

Mason has come a long way.

 

[Hamingja]

If you played a tall midfielder as a ruckman, then the tall midfielder just ends up being considered a ruckman after a while.

I mean Blicavs rucked for Geelong for a whole year in 2015 when all the genuine rucks were injured and people would just adjust how they would view him and consider him a ruckman.

Up against Sandilands/Gawn/Goldstein etc it was a bloodbath in the ruck and Geelong also got killed out of the middle that year so most people would correlate that to the differential in the rucks but Geelong's midfield was weak that year with Selwood struggling with heavy tags and the likes of Johnson, Stokes and Kelly being cooked.

Blicavs + Selwood + Dangerfield + Ablett would be a more interesting case study. If they struggled without a big ruckman then it would never work.

 

[schmuttt]

Melbourne basically did it after Gawn and Spencer were both injured from round 6 till round 12. We won the clearance count in every single game in that stretch except for one against Collingwood, where it was 35-35. To be honest Gawns form was trash when he came back aside from a half against Port and I’d rather us play Pedersen and McDonald through there than Gawn at 80%.

 

[Crue]

Bring back Trent Ormond-Allen, 5 foot nothing but with the leap of a startled gazelle he torched up Spider Everitt in the ruck 1 afternoon

 

[Pali23]

Melbourne basically did it after Gawn and Spencer were both injured from round 6 till round 12. We won the clearance count in every single game in that stretch except for one against Collingwood, where it was 35-35. To be honest Gawns form was trash when he came back aside from a half against Port and I’d rather us play Pedersen and McDonald through there than Gawn at 80%.

To be fair McDonald and Pederson aren't medium sized mids.

 

[Pali23]

Bring back Trent Ormond-Allen, 5 foot nothing but with the leap of a startled gazelle he torched up Spider Everitt in the ruck 1 afternoon

Everitt smashed him in the ruck but had him more than covered around the ground.

 

[schmuttt]

To be fair McDonald and Pederson aren't medium sized mids.

They conceded the majority of the hitouts and Pedersen especially was basically an extra mid in that time.

 

[quotemokc]

Adelaide vs Essendon 2009 elimination final... You need a ruckman.

Hopefully teams this year will learn how to counteract the 'send no one' tactic at ball ups.

If the ruck has a free run at the ball that team should have a plan that he will punch it to advantage instead a tap down to the inevitable tackle.

 

[Pali23]

They conceded the majority of the hitouts and Pedersen especially was basically an extra mid in that time.

They still nullify complete domination though which you don't want.

 

[Power Raid]

At the very least you need someone who can compete in the air and help out at ground level

 

[TedDougChris]

We tried Ayce Cordy as sole ruck for a few games a few years back, which was effectively playing without one...

 

[00Stinger]

If you played a tall midfielder as a ruckman, then the tall midfielder just ends up being considered a ruckman after a while.

I mean Blicavs rucked for Geelong for a whole year in 2015 when all the genuine rucks were injured and people would just adjust how they would view him and consider him a ruckman.

Up against Sandilands/Gawn/Goldstein etc it was a bloodbath in the ruck and Geelong also got killed out of the middle that year so most people would correlate that to the differential in the rucks but Geelong's midfield was weak that year with Selwood struggling with heavy tags and the likes of Johnson, Stokes and Kelly being cooked.

Blicavs + Selwood + Dangerfield + Ablett would be a more interesting case study. If they struggled without a big ruckman then it would never work.

Yep. If Dangerfield, Ablett & Selwood can't dominate a midfield without a ruckman then it is impossible to do so

 

[juss]

Adelaide vs Essendon 2009 elimination final... You need a ruckman.

Hopefully teams this year will learn how to counteract the 'send no one' tactic at ball ups.

If the ruck has a free run at the ball that team should have a plan that he will punch it to advantage instead a tap down to the inevitable tackle.

It happened in 2010, when Hawthorn didn’t have a fit one to play against North, after a late out.

Hodge was forced to do the honours, letting McIntosh and Goldstein do as they pleased.

North won the game quite easily.


Brad Scott then had a teary after the game because he didn’t think it was fair that Hawthorn could make a change like that prior to the game, and change match ups so severely.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/04/26/scott-says-what-the-ruck/

Good examples, but from a fair few yeats ago. Maybe the game has changed since then and it could see a different result?

 

[schmuttt]

They still nullify complete domination though which you don't want.

I’d say the oppo ruckman averaging 60+ hitouts is complete domination.

 

[TerryWallet]

Matthew Knights not playing a Ruckman in the Elimination Final probably kickstarted the most tumultuos period a Club has ever seen.

I think ruckmen will continue to be more athletic, but there will always be big ruckmen in our game.

 

[Pali23]

I’d say the oppo ruckman averaging 60+ hitouts is complete domination.

To advantage though and clean?

 

[BallaratBulldog]

We tried Ayce Cordy as sole ruck for a few games a few years back, which was effectively playing without one...

We were also enjoying the third man up in 2015/2016.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Wouldn't work against a genuine contested marking ruckman, could see the advantages of having more run at ground level if you're competing with a team with a Josh Frazer as their ruck though.