What is the appeal of Clive Palmer?

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If there's anything the Trump stuff told us, it's that the phrase 'Australia/America first' is championed by people who want to enrich a very small amount of people while creating scapegoats for the rest. Would have thought the reality of those 4 years would have put some sense into those who still use it unironically.

 

[Kram]

It's probably just some thoughtless protest vote for the most part.

 

[Not Important]

Nobody is disputing that. But his desires/goals need to be separated from the people he is targeting to vote for him, they are not the same thing.

avarice and selfishness are his desire/goals which are also those of the party that smooths the path for him to achieve them.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Workers, workers, workers.

Their numbers halved since that 2013 election by the way.

Yep... And at that very election all of the Liberals, Nationals and UAP increased their vote, with a significant swing away from the ALP. Just for clarification, are you suggesting that there are "halfwit right wing voters" who, at some stage in their lives, were also ALP voters?

Or... Is it possible that, for a variety of reasons (which happens to be the topic of this thread), UAP appeals to a different cross section of the community, which may not be drawn upon traditional party lines?

 

[Taylor]

If there's anything the Trump stuff told us, it's that the phrase 'Australia/America first' is championed by people who want to enrich a very small amount of people while creating scapegoats for the rest. Would have thought the reality of those 4 years would have put some sense into those who still use it unironically.

The very small amount of people that benefit are the people in specific country voting. It's actually a great example with climate change policy, the pain is worn here by industry leaving, jobs disappearing and the benefit is mostly to the outward facing elites and politicians getting a pat on the back from the rest of their global mates - all while achieving nothing measurable at home.

All the ALP has to do to sure up that vote is walk away from climate change, leave it all to the greens, let the greens send their preferences to the ALP and hope that the greens don't win outright.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Yep... And at that very election all of the Liberals, Nationals and UAP increased their vote, with a significant swing away from the ALP. Just for clarification, are you suggesting that there are "halfwit right wing voters" who, at some stage in their lives, were also ALP voters?

Or... Is it possible that, for a variety of reasons (which happens to be the topic of this thread), UAP appeals to a different cross section of the community, which may not be drawn upon traditional party lines?

The UAP is an incoherent mess. Take it's advertising budget away, and lets see how it goes. It appeals to the same mindset as One nation, citizens electoral council, Fraser Anning types. They're competing for the same votes.

They're drawn to virtue signalling sloganeering such as Australia First.

 

[Carn The Berries]

The UAP is an incoherent mess. Take it's advertising budget away, and lets see how it goes. It appeals to the same mindset as One nation, citizens electoral council, Fraser Anning types. They're competing for the same votes.

They're drawn to virtue signalling sloganeering such as Australia First.

Of course taking away their advertising budget would crucify them! I don't think there is anyone here who is suggesting they are a legitimate political outfit.

The thing that you seem to be choosing to ignore is that UAP has a broader appeal that what you are wanting to acknowledge, I'm not entirely sure why.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The very small amount of people that benefit are the people in specific country voting. It's actually a great example with climate change policy, the pain is worn here by industry leaving, jobs disappearing and the benefit is mostly to the outward facing elites and politicians getting a pat on the back from the rest of their global mates - all while achieving nothing measurable at home.

All the ALP has to do to sure up that vote is walk away from climate change, leave it all to the greens, let the greens send their preferences to the ALP and hope that the greens don't win outright.

elites, global mates. Lol. Q buzzwords. You're being cooked and dont even know it. Is Palmer not an elite? Are our minig companies not elites? Do they not mingle with overseas fossil fuel execs? Are they not elites?

You can try to decouple climate friendly policy and jobs all you want. Chaining ourselves to these industries is delaying the inevitable.

 

[Carn The Berries]

The very small amount of people that benefit are the people in specific country voting. It's actually a great example with climate change policy, the pain is worn here by industry leaving, jobs disappearing and the benefit is mostly to the outward facing elites and politicians getting a pat on the back from the rest of their global mates - all while achieving nothing measurable at home.

All the ALP has to do to sure up that vote is walk away from climate change, leave it all to the greens, let the greens send their preferences to the ALP and hope that the greens don't win outright.

And have a quiet word to Bob Brown, politely asking him to never set foot in Qld again

 

[Taylor]

elites, global mates. Lol. Q buzzwords. You're being cooked and dont even know it. Is Palmer not an elite? Are our minig companies not elites? Do they not mingle with overseas fossil fuel execs? Are they not elites?

You can try to decouple climate friendly policy and jobs all you want. Chaining ourselves to these industries is delaying the inevitable.

When I give a reasoned position and you flip out to discredit it, I know I'm hit the issue right on the nose.
You haven't been paying attention the entire time, you're still trying to throw mud at the UAP and as far as I can see nobody has been championing their position or policy - just explaining where the major parties have failed and people have shifted over to it.

Nobody in a job wants to hear that their employment is inconvenient to the party's climate policy and they should go learn to code. That's why people move to the UAP.

You are the reason.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Of course taking away their advertising budget would crucify them! I don't think there is anyone here who is suggesting they are a legitimate political outfit.

The thing that you seem to be choosing to ignore is that UAP has a broader appeal that what you are wanting to acknowledge, I'm not entirely sure why.

There always has been and always will be the type of voted Palmer appeals to. Mentions of global elites and globalism etc is an indication of what type we are talking about. They thrive in a space where misinformation is spread freely.

 

[Carn The Berries]

elites, global mates. Lol. Q buzzwords. You're being cooked and dont even know it. Is Palmer not an elite? Are our minig companies not elites? Do they not mingle with overseas fossil fuel execs? Are they not elites?

You can try to decouple climate friendly policy and jobs all you want. Chaining ourselves to these industries is delaying the inevitable.

Those 2 things don't need to be decoupled, but there needs to be acknowledgement that there will be industries that are adversely affected. The workers in those industries are also within their rights to be asking what happens to them if mines are taken off line! The lack of clarity on this from the major parties is contributing to the size of the UAP vote!

 

[Carn The Berries]

There always has been and always will be the type of voted Palmer appeals to. Mentions of global elites and globalism etc is an indication of what type we are talking about. They thrive in a space where misinformation is spread freely.

Nobody is disagreeing with that!

What both Taylor and I are both saying (and the data we have provided clearly shows) is that these aren't the ONLY people that UAP appeals to.

Again, not sure why you don't want to acknowledge this.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

When I give a reasoned position and you flip out to discredit it, I know I'm hit the issue right on the nose.
You haven't been paying attention the entire time, you're still trying to throw mud at the UAP and as far as I can see nobody has been championing their position or policy - just explaining where the major parties have failed and people have shifted over to it.

Nobody in a job wants to hear that their employment is inconvenient to the party's climate policy and they should go learn to code. That's why people move to the UAP.

You are the reason.

Ive been saying for years the ALP has not been strong enough on key issues. Minimum wages. medicare. Supporting unions.

The disinformation that Palmer has thrown out or benefited from is nothing new. Hanson did it years ago. When Palmer keels over, it's done. But another party will emerge. Or ON might get a 3rd wind. This stuff isn't going away.

You've been slowly cooked for years. You reflexively use terms like globalism, elites etc. These are pretty easily recongnisable for anyone who knows far right misinformation. You're a pretty enthusiastic consumer and haven't the got the skills to separate fact from nonsense.

These mineral execs want their profits to keep coming. They only need the 'workers' (TM) to do the hard yakka. They don't want to pay them. Improve their conditions. They want to automate as much as possible. They'll be on their arse soon enough even if Palmer was PM.

 

[Taylor]

Ive been saying for years the ALP has not been strong enough on key issues. Minimum wages. medicare. Supporting unions.

The disinformation that Palmer has thrown out or benefited from is nothing new. Hanson did it years ago. When Palmer keels over, it's done. But another party will emerge. Or ON might get a 3rd wind. This stuff isn't going away.

You've been slowly cooked for years. You reflexively use terms like globalism, elites etc. These are pretty easily recongnisable for anyone who knows far right misinformation. You're a pretty enthusiastic consumer and haven't the got the skills to separate fact from nonsense.

These mineral execs want their profits to keep coming. They only need the 'workers' (TM) to do the hard yakka. They don't want to pay them. Improve their conditions. They want to automate as much as possible. They'll be on their arse soon enough even if Palmer was PM.

It's so important to you that ALP voters don't see the UAP as a viable alternative - and rightly so. If the workers abandon the ALP then all that's left is the green-lites or LNP clones and that's not going to ever be electable.

Your go to has been for a long time to attack the person to avoid the point, double down a point you can't back up in the face of overwhelming evidence and then gaslight the opposition until they stop interacting with you.

That's what drives people to the UAP.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Nobody is disagreeing with that!

What both Taylor and I are both saying (and the data we have provided clearly shows) is that these aren't the ONLY people that UAP appeals to.

Again, not sure why you don't want to acknowledge this.

It's a mish mash of right wing causes. Anti-vax stuff. They're going to stop twitter censoring our posts. Lol. Something about Australian values.

It's like a buffet for drunk uncles who share racist s**t on facebook.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

It's so important to you that ALP voters don't see the UAP as a viable alternative - and rightly so. If the workers abandon the ALP then all that's left is the green-lites or LNP clones and that's not going to ever be electable.

Your go to has been for a long time to attack the person to avoid the point, double down a point you can't back up in the face of overwhelming evidence and then gaslight the opposition until they stop interacting with you.

That's what drives people to the UAP.

what's driving them away? Their vote halved at the last election. ON is their enemy. Not the ALP.

And * off with that 'play the ball stuff'. You're going the 'you're the problem stuff' aswell, sook.

 

[Taylor]

what's driving them away? Their vote halved at the last election. ON is their enemy. Not the ALP.

And fu** off with that 'play the ball stuff'. You're going the 'you're the problem stuff' aswell, sook.

The way you've referred to the UAP is your right, but it's counter productive to your goal of reducing ALP bleeding to the UAP.

Whenever someone was telling you why people vote UAP, as is the purpose of the thread, you've discredited either the source or the UAP - neither of which is being discussed.

Denial is a stage of grieving though so I do understand that. When you get to acceptance you'll be able to action against the UAP and for the ALP more effectively, because your current tactic is bolstering the existing support.

And as we talked about earlier, it's all just to benefit the LNP.

 

[Carn The Berries]

what's driving them away? Their vote halved at the last election. ON is their enemy. Not the ALP.

How then do you explain ON's vote increasing at the 2019 election (on a full federal basis).

Maybe, just maybe, there are people voting for UAP who don't hold these strong right wing views that you seem to believe are the hallmark of every single person marking UAP 1 on their ballot paper? Maybe there are some blue collar workers, in industries being targeted for closure by the ALP and greens who are worried what they'll do next and are easy targets for UAP?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I suspect the other thing about those who vote for Palmer is that they are likely to be far dumber than the Candidates who stand for Palmer, which, if you think about it, is really some sort of achievement

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The way you've referred to the UAP is your right, but it's counter productive to your goal of reducing ALP bleeding to the UAP.

Whenever someone was telling you why people vote UAP, as is the purpose of the thread, you've discredited either the source or the UAP - neither of which is being discussed.

Denial is a stage of grieving though so I do understand that. When you get to acceptance you'll be able to action against the UAP and for the ALP more effectively, because your current tactic is bolstering the existing support.

And as we talked about earlier, it's all just to benefit the LNP.

The ALP is likely to be in government.

Hopefully, they support gig workers, offer younger casuals clearer path to PT, limit permanent casuals etc etc.

Workers aren't just male coal miners. There are plenty of others aswell that need a fairer shake.

Palmer's virtue sgnalling may work on you, but it's transparent nonsense to cluey people.

 

[Gethelred]

But I answered that we should have more transparency and less corporate influence in politics?

You will argue whatever results in maintenance of the status quo. To you, it doesn't matter what you're arguing, merely the outcome.

You affect the pretense of being 'for' things only to attack all options in favour as impractical, expensive, or the like. In that way, you derail discussion.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

How then do you explain ON's vote increasing at the 2019 election (on a full federal basis).

Maybe, just maybe, there are people voting for UAP who don't hold these strong right wing views that you seem to believe are the hallmark of every single person marking UAP 1 on their ballot paper? Maybe there are some blue collar workers, in industries being targeted for closure by the ALP and greens who are worried what they'll do next and are easy targets for UAP?

ON and PUP are largely competing for the same voters.

Im sure your second point is the case for some. The automation bomb may hit them before the greens do. The issue is the LNP/their employer will have them down at centrelink with not half the support the ALP/Greens will offer.

Wonder what they think of Australian values and their tweets then.

 

[Taylor]

Palmer's virtue sgnalling may work on you, but it's transparent nonsense to cluey people.

I'm not voting for Palmer's party.

Sometimes I wonder if people would think I'm an alien if I posted in the thread "what could aliens see in Earth" and took their perspective in how I answered it.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm not voting for Palmer's party.

Sometimes I wonder if people would think I'm an alien if I posted in the thread "what could aliens see in Earth" and took their perspective in how I answered it.

No but you're sounding like his PR manager.