Review What We Learnt: Round 7 Edition

[Squizz]

I just couldn't believe we actually got a decision in our favour for once. I reckon it was the perfect interpretation of the in the back rule, Jimmy didn't push him, he did everything he could to avoid landing on him and mostly managed to land to the side. If you're going to pay that then defenders may as well not contest the ball in those situations.

Thought it was good technique to roll off. It was noticed by Luke Darcy, who managed to get a word in around BT Woweee's rubbish. Actually, I thought the defensive pressure generally was outstanding. A number of times when Carlton players felt contact from behind they either ducked or buckled. The Saints seemed aware of this tactic, and managed to roll players over when it's damn hard to do. Newnes in particular was superb in this regard.

 

[IsDonIsGood]

Was at the game last night and I must say I am a little surprised at some of the criticism of Stanley on here. As a dons fan, i have enjoyed watching one of our clubs greatest ever defenders over the last 20 years and to be honest I see a lot of fletch in Stanley. Insane reach and closing speed, good agility for a guy of his size, great penetration on his kicking. There were a few times he got caught out of position but I simply thought "that's ok, because he'll learn from that and try a different position next time round." I would cop people rubbishing him after a complete season, but to say so after only a few rounds, when he has actually shown hints of what he could become is a little premature IMO.

 

[mysainters]

Was at the game last night and I must say I am a little surprised at some of the criticism of Stanley on here. As a dons fan, i have enjoyed watching one of our clubs greatest ever defenders over the last 20 years and to be honest I see a lot of fletch in Stanley. Insane reach and closing speed, good agility for a guy of his size, great penetration on his kicking. There were a few times he got caught out of position but I simply thought "that's ok, because he'll learn from that and try a different position next time round." I would cop people rubbishing him after a complete season, but to say so after only a few rounds, when he has actually shown hints of what he could become is a little premature IMO.

I thought he may be doing well in the 1%ers, just a gut feel after watching all his hard work off the ball in shepherding, spoils etc.

Even I was surprised to find out that he leads in this stat, and by a long...long way.

47, the next closest is Ben with 22.

He will keep getting rewarded with that kind of 'team' effort IMO.

As I said, confidence is clearly growing.

 

[Strahany]

Is he a keeper or someone we can ship off to GWS for a special on baller and a moderate on baller?

That sounds very specific.

 

[Squizz]

we got smashed in the hitouts especially in the last quarter.

we also got smashed in the clearances AGAIN 33 to 44.

Our lack of a decent KPD almost cost us the game AGAIN.

The first 2 need to change to help the third point.

Gwilt was the one who matched up poorly on Henderson.

In the last quarter, the first kick to Hampson (a good pass too) was spoiled over the line by Stanley.

Well done to Hampson to outpoint Stanley from a centre breakaway, but Gwilt had the opportunity to contest from behind and elected not to.

Hampson got a possession out wide against McEvoy when Carlton got a 50m penalty (when Siposs should have got a free at the other end). Kicked to Henderson who marked, with Stanley not on the ground at the time.

The Saints were all over the shop minutes later, with barely any players manned up. Garlett marked against Monty and goaled.

Carlton got the centre clearance and Henderson marked out wide against Gwilt and goaled.

Hampson got another possession against McEvoy and ran off him.

Stanley was matched against Robinson for a while and the only contest resulted in Stanley taking an important mark with 5 minutes to go. Play was switched to the other side of the ground. Ends with a goal to Saad.

Then went to Hampson who didn't touch the ball for the rest of the quarter.

BT says woweee.

 

[mysainters]

BT says woweee.

Woweee?

How uniquely funny, what an endearing old thing.

Should use that expression some more.

 

[hayes]

I pretty much agree with everything people have said about our players. I thought there was a lot to like from so many of them. My lessons from this match are less about players, and more about structure.

But before I get to structure, let me quickly say, there are not enough facepalms for suggestions that Stanley is a bad backman. He's fine. He's essentially a debutant this year, played 7ish games in the role, and has had one game where his opponent got away from him. Give him 30 games in the role, he'll probably be AA.

Structurally, we needed another tall and another senior inside mid - or hell, ANY inside mid. FACT: we lost the clearances 33 to 44, and that's despite Carlton's rotations being ruined by injuries in the first quarter. One of the main reasons Carlton came back in that last quarter was because they started demolishing us in the guts, clearance after clearance. If Hayes, Jones or even Ledger or Curren had played, the ball wouldn't have been going into Carlton's forward 50 every two seconds in that last quarter. It may well have been going into ours. THEN the game is much safer for us.

Add to that, we essentially had four big talls out there, spread between three positions, when we needed five: Roo, Hickey, Macca and Stanley. We started with one in the back (Stanley), one in the ruck (Macca), two in the forward line (Hickey, Roo). What that meant was, when things got too stretched down back, we switched to two in the back (Stanley, Macca), one in the ruck (Hickey), ONE in the forward line (Roo). Unsurprisingly, we found it hard to score in our forward line, even when we DID get it down there, because structurally we were way off. A BETTER solution is one less small, replaced by Beau when he gets back. THEN we'll have a completely different situation.

THEN, we'll have a one back, one ruck, THREE forward, to stretch defences. But if things go bad in the backline, we can have two backs (Macca floating back), one ruck (Hickey from the forward line), and still have TWO talls in the forward line. That will still make things tough for the opposition.

Just on the clearance stuff, it's all part of the learning process IMO. Lets face it, if we were in full win now mode Stanley wouldn't be playing in the backline. He's doing a good job but he's still learning, as are the young mids. The experience they get now combined with bigger bodies and a couple more preseasons is going to be huge.

Haven't seen the replay yet but does anybody know how we only had two mids in the centre square when the game was on the line? How does that happen?

 

[TassieSaint]

The first 2 need to change to help the third point.

Gwilt was the one who matched up poorly on Henderson.

I'll have rewatch, the main impression I got during the 4Q was that essentially no one was on Henderson and I almost forgot about Hampson who looked threatening but luckily didn't see too much of the ball directed toward him.

Point is we have no one who can shut down even a mediocre forward like Henderson. We had apparently had a loose man late on but he didn't seem to make it to too many contests. Something has to change if we're gonna start winning consistently.

 

[Falchoon]

Haven't seen the replay yet but does anybody know how we only had two mids in the centre square when the game was on the line? How does that happen?

twice

 

[Squizz]

I'll have rewatch, the main impression I got during the 4Q was that essentially no one was on Henderson

Have another look, as Gwilt was the matchup but couldn't go with him. Some may argue that Rhys should've been given the job, but that's different to the urban myth that he got pantsed by his opponent.

And having said all this, I'd still prefer (if we had enough tall defenders) that Rhys plays forward and helps in the ruck. His output would have been substantially greater than Hickey (albeit I have hopes for the latter in future seasons).

 

[Ian Dunross]

Off topic, but I can't remember Glass and especially not Scarlett ever getting towelled up 'week after week'. Even when their respective sides were crap. Grundy is still not much chop and Richards took 10 years to reach AA level. All of them are natural backmen. Not a good comparison for Stanley.

Scarlett started out like every young defender, undersized and inexperienced. When Geelong were getting pumped in the early 00s I bet people weren't calling him a potential great. Richards and Grundy started out as forwards. Give the guy a go. This is his 7th game as a defender.

 

[L_W_P]

- Nathan Wright should inherit the #7 when Lenny hangs 'em up.

- Ben McEvoy just became "St Kilda Captain Elect". We all know it's coming, just have to wait for inauguration day.

- Tom Hickey is a better centre square ruckman than Matthew Kreuzer. Don't give me anything about Kruuz' thumb either because Hickey was brought back a week early from a calf injury to combat that acne ridden, over grown rover. Lots of talk that Kruuz should be traded by the Blues fans on their board btw and GWS have made it no secret that they want to get a top shelf ruckman. Wonder what Mick will do?

- Jack Steven. Nuff Said.

- Dylan Roberton would be leading our BnF if he wasn't competing against perhaps the best Saint of all time in Nick Riewoldt. Most of us had feelings ranging from apprehension to outright anger when we picked him up but he is probably the recruit of the year in terms of recycled players having an impact on their new club.

Lets look at the stats compared to the guy that took his spot at half back at Freo - Danyle Pearce.

Disposals - Rob: 18.9 v Pearce 18.3
Marks - Rob: 4.7 v Pearce: 2.7
Tackles - Rob: 2.1 v Pearce: 3.9
I50 - Rob: 2.3 v Pearce: 3.9
R50 - Rob: 6.3 v Pearce: 1.7
Clangers - Rob: 1.3 v Pearce: 2.4
1%ers - Rob: 2.9 v Pearce: 0.6
Efficiency - Rob: 74.6 v Pearce: 52.5

That puts Roberton up 6-2 in 8 key stats. Both have kicked 2 goals this year. Pearce gets a run on ball every now and then so he leads clearences (2.7 v 0.3) but Rob has been responsible for a man every week, yet he still manages to time is runs up the ground perfectly so as to help on the offence without allowing his opponent the chance to burn him going the other way.

He kept Carlton's best forward (Betts) to just 11 touches and a rushed shot at goal that went for a behind.

- We are young and fadeouts should be expected for the next year or two. I know it's going to be frustrating but for those that can remember, cast your mind back to 2003. Our team was on the edge of the finals with a healthy mix of vets playing solid football with a group of exciting youngsters coming through.

Our ave win was by 38 points.
Our ave loss was by 46 points.

In the last qtr of our 11 wins we scored 40.38 to 31.35
In the last qtr of our 11 losses we scored 24.35 v 43.40

What this tells me is that we were very inconsistent, that we ran out of puff late in a lot of games and that if we weren't at least 4 goals up at 3/4 time we were going to struggle. I think that, while our win/loss record wont be quite as good, our year will look very much the same.

We will hang on in some games but there will be times where the kids will tire and get steamrolled late. But just as there was excitement a decade ago with Ball, Roo, Kosi, Milne, Dal, Hayes, Montagna, Goddard etc. there will be again with McEvoy, Hickey, Wright, Webster, Ross, Newnes, Lee, White, Stanley, Roberton etc.

Hang tough Saints fans, we will rise again!

 

[mysainters]

Great post, love considered opinions

 

[tbarker]

milera is 25 now, isnt he?

he might be a transition player for us, like maister. long term not in our plans, but will fill that void, stay competitive and play his role whilst the kids develop

he has something to atleast work with. i think he is slowly getting better

Yeah - Milera is an interesting one. I think it is purely concentration levels. He has all the tools but drops off throughout the game. THis is his second season so he should be on top of it but I would persist with him given his skill level.

 

[tbarker]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

I will assume that this is either;
(a) - a joke; or
(b) - a personal issue that you have with Stanley.

 

[L_W_P]

I wanted to make a separate post for perhaps my favourite moment of enlightenment from last night - Jimmy Webster. There was a lot to like about this kid.

He held his nerve in a tight and frantic last qtr.

He gave verbal instructions to both Seb Ross and Dylan Roberton about their positioning and blocking around the packs when there was a series of ball ups in the Carlton F50. He pulled Seb aside at one point and you could see him gesture about laying a block to give Dal or Stevo space at the next ball up. It wasn't the best execution by Seb but it told me a lot alot about Jimmy.

His tackling technique is fantastic. He hooks the elbow perfectly, brings the body straight down (without buckling his own knees) and rolls to the side.

This means that the guy being tackled has less chance of getting rid of the ball effectively while Jimmy avoids an in the back infringement. By hooking the elbow the way he does he also stops players shrugging his arm up over their shoulder ala the Selwood boys.

For a guy who had a reputation as a slightly built but skilful wingman, he really showed a ruthless appetite for the contest.

 

[mysainters]

Well said, great debut.

The boy can tackle.

Should take wrights position, and perhaps ledger to sub.

A good example of why people shouldn't be impatient with kids, body catching up to the mind.

 

[L_W_P]

Hoping we can grab his brother with a late 2nd/early 3rd at the end of the year too!

 

[sammm]

Jeepers. I noticed Gilbert wasn't there when Henderson started chopping our defence up. His pace/fitness and ability to get to contests third man up seem underrated. There were too many times where Saints players elected to stay down and watch a Carlton player mark one-out.

why would that be? too budggered? too stressed?

 

[sammm]

Rhys Stanley as a key back makes me shudder more than Zac Dawson did. Any chance someone can tell him that he needs to watch the ball in the air instead of whether his direct opponent shaved before the game? Not a defenders arse-hole, trade bait.

Rhys stanley as a backman is less 'shudderless' than Zac. Becuase Zac sac should know better and still makes the same mistakes. Rhys is learning the job with only 7 weeks into a new position.

 

[Rors]

Loved Tom Hickey's last 5 mins of the game. Got a hand in a few times to intercept Carlton handballs & laid a ripper tackle on someone just as they were about to bomb inside 50 again.

As a Hickey doubter, I was not wrong with his fumbling & bumbling in the first half, but his 2nd half was much better. He needs time, but I would be more than happy now to have him ply his trade in the seniors for strings of games & reserves for a break & learn to play other positions every so often as the year goes by

 

[sammm]

I wanted to make a separate post for perhaps my favourite moment of enlightenment from last night - Jimmy Webster. There was a lot to like about this kid.

He held his nerve in a tight and frantic last qtr.

He gave verbal instructions to both Seb Ross and Dylan Roberton about their positioning and blocking around the packs when there was a series of ball ups in the Carlton F50. He pulled Seb aside at one point and you could see him gesture about laying a block to give Dal or Stevo space at the next ball up. It wasn't the best execution by Seb but it told me a lot alot about Jimmy.

His tackling technique is fantastic. He hooks the elbow perfectly, brings the body straight down (without buckling his own knees) and rolls to the side.

This means that the guy being tackled has less chance of getting rid of the ball effectively without Jimmy risking an in the back infringement. By hooking the elbow the way he does he also stops players shrugging his arm up over their shoulder ala the Selwood boys.

For a guy who had a reputation as a slightly built but skilful wingman, he really showed a ruthless appetite for the contest.

I haven't seen the reply so thanks for the analsyis of Webster, it will be interesting to see how he goes

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I believe he took a couple kick outs. Had a bounce and definitely wasn't afraid to show off his left boot.

 

[Defacto]

Yeah - Milera is an interesting one. I think it is purely concentration levels. He has all the tools but drops off throughout the game. THis is his second season so he should be on top of it but I would persist with him given his skill level.

do you think he will look for a trade?

 

[Squizz]

why would that me? too budggered? too stressed?

Dunno about them, but I was stressed.