When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Chunky09]

My god what an absolute dumpster
This club is the only entertainment in Melbourne

 

[HTPunter]

I think Buckley would still be in the frame, but we'd have contingencies if we needed to go down the path of an untried but highly credentialed assistant. Goes against the grain somewhat, but the ultimate decision was to remove Teague and that has already occurred.

Not super keen on Scott, but can see why the board might be interested. Did reasonably well with a middle-of-the-road list and realistically overachieved while he was there. I rate him higher than his brother as a match day coach. Always liked his stance on remaining competitive, even as the squad was essentially being rebuilt.

He'd do well, the main concern is that his biggest flaw (sides getting a run on, being unable to stop them) is already Carltons. I'd want evidence/theories from him on how he is stopping that, who his assistants should be as defensive coaches etc.

Overall though you know he would come in, be fiercely Carlton, bring more than just senior coaching experience (success before and after North at various clubs and. Organisations), and would get a lot out of 2nd tier players.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Blues renew coaching chase for Clarkson after Lyon walks away

By Caroline Wilson and Sam McClure

Updated September 2, 2021 — 7.08pm

Carlton is set to launch a last-ditch effort to re-engage Alastair Clarkson, after Ross Lyon pulled out of the process to be the Blues’ next coach.

The former Fremantle and St Kilda coach contacted Blues president Luke Sayers early on Thursday to officially withdraw after the club appeared to significantly change the selection process.

High-level sources at Carlton have told The Age the club hasn’t given up on luring Clarkson.

Whether or not Clarkson’s management respond to another overture from the Blues is unclear but he has remained adamant he plans to spend 2022 away from AFL coaching and pursuing opportunities in the U.S.

Blues renew coaching chase for Clarkson after Lyon walks away

The former Fremantle and St Kilda coach contacted Blues chairman Luke Sayers early on Thursday to officially withdraw after the club appeared to significantly change the selection process.

www.theage.com.au

 

[La Dispute]

Doing the opposite would quite literally be what Carlton have been slammed for for a decade plus now.

They have to move past the messiah complex. Appointing Lyon based on Luke Sayers loving him, with Sayers probably appointed because some rich coterie blokes like him, would be the worst call. Appointing Lyon after going via a candidate process and him proving that yes he is more capable than a fresh new Teague/Kingsley/McCrae type, is a much better move.

Not appointing Lyon because he didn't want to do the hard work, just wanted to be the messiah, is again a good move.

It's probably the only thing Carlton have got right so far on a board/off-field level since the review was announced.

It's refreshing to see them set in motion a process and stick to it.

Can argue about some of the optics of what they've done, but the actual effort taken to taken to appoint a competent and suitable head coach is what has been lacking for some time. That fact Ross didn't want to be included as part of it is a red flag in and of itself

Of course the club would be keen and asked him to apply. His record speaks for itself and he would certainly helped out the non-contributors, but he should never have been guaranteed the job without being included as part of a selection process. It sounds like he didn't want to answer specific questions about his past, particularly the circumstances that led to his dismissal from Fremantle, and it had been flagged from a long way back the board was divided on bringing him in any way.

Think both parties might have avoided another Malthouse-type situation.

 

[fnerd]

Great news that Lyon has spat the dummy and pulled out. Who the f**k does he think he is that he can avoid a process at Carlton & Collingwood and expect to be handed a head coach role. Arrogant and dodgy character to say the least so bullet dodged bigtime !

Nice dummy spit yourself at the news Lyon pulled out

ummm you do realise Carlton and in particular your “new” (lol) president sayers basically approached Lyon and quizzed if he was interested in the job yeah?- basically OK’ing it for him once clarko said no?

.. only for your the rest of a rabble of a board to then get spooked and demand a “thorough”process- I’m guessing similar to the one you did when you appointed Teague ?

 

[Bjchan13]

Blues renew coaching chase for Clarkson after Lyon walks away

By Caroline Wilson and Sam McClure

Updated September 2, 2021 — 7.08pm

Carlton is set to launch a last-ditch effort to re-engage Alastair Clarkson, after Ross Lyon pulled out of the process to be the Blues’ next coach.

The former Fremantle and St Kilda coach contacted Blues president Luke Sayers early on Thursday to officially withdraw after the club appeared to significantly change the selection process.

High-level sources at Carlton have told The Age the club hasn’t given up on luring Clarkson.

Whether or not Clarkson’s management respond to another overture from the Blues is unclear but he has remained adamant he plans to spend 2022 away from AFL coaching and pursuing opportunities in the U.S.

Blues renew coaching chase for Clarkson after Lyon walks away

The former Fremantle and St Kilda coach contacted Blues chairman Luke Sayers early on Thursday to officially withdraw after the club appeared to significantly change the selection process.

www.theage.com.au

Predictable. Wouldn't surprise me to see Clarkson backflip either. It will be unprecedented money for a coach.

 

[La Dispute]

He'd do well, the main concern is that his biggest flaw (sides getting a run on, being unable to stop them) is already Carltons. I'd want evidence/theories from him on how he is stopping that, who his assistants should be as defensive coaches etc.

Overall though you know he would come in, be fiercely Carlton, bring more than just senior coaching experience (success before and after North at various clubs and. Organisations), and would get a lot out of 2nd tier players.

I've been pro-Buckley since he got a reasonable average team to a Grand Final in 2018. Modified the gameplan to suit the personnel, tightened Collingwood's defensive structures and played a nice sustainable gamestyle. I'd almost theorise that as he developed as a coach Collingwood's list was slowly going backward/ageing and that he missed coaching the Pies when he himself was at his peak as a coach.

Has credits in the bank, probably didn't leave Collingwood in the best circumstances and would have some regrets in his last 12 months there but the club could do a hell of a lot worse.

 

[Bjchan13]

Doing the opposite would quite literally be what Carlton have been slammed for for a decade plus now.

They have to move past the messiah complex. Appointing Lyon based on Luke Sayers loving him, with Sayers probably appointed because some rich coterie blokes like him, would be the worst call. Appointing Lyon after going via a candidate process and him proving that yes he is more capable than a fresh new Teague/Kingsley/McCrae type, is a much better move.

Not appointing Lyon because he didn't want to do the hard work, just wanted to be the messiah, is again a good move.

It's probably the only thing Carlton have got right so far on a board/off-field level since the review was announced.

If they'd initiated a proper search from the start it might have been an indicator they'd changed their spots. But Clarkson and Ross had already been told they had the job if they wanted it, before Teague was sacked. Id say the whole process will get thrown out again if they can jag Clarkson.

 

[Noidnadroj]

It's refreshing to see them set in motion a process and stick to it.

Can argue about some of the optics of what they've done, but the actual effort taken to taken to appoint a competent and suitable head coach is what has been lacking for some time. That fact Ross didn't want to be included as part of it is a red flag in and of itself

Of course the club would be keen and asked him to apply. His record speaks for itself and he would certainly helped out the non-contributors, but he should never have been guaranteed the job without being included as part of a selection process. It sounds like he didn't want to answer specific questions about his past, particularly the circumstances that led to his dismissal from Fremantle, and it had been flagged from a long way back the board was divided on bringing him in any way.

Think both parties might have avoided another Malthouse-type situation.

Of course you don’t put Ross Lyon through an exhaustive interview process - he has taken two teams with a long history of failure to Grand Finals and within a bees whisker of a flag. There are hundreds of players he coached and hundreds of staff he would have worked with you could speak to. If he’s not your man that’s fine, but as if he’s going to stake his credentials up against a newbie in a drawn out interview process being interviewed by people Carlton are potentially looking to turf out such as Lloyd and Liddell.


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[10571z]

You look at the Pies vs Carlton process … honestly it’s becoming obvious why we regularly contend in finals since the AFL was introduced in 1990.

Would love to hear Ross Lyons version

 

[cobra land]

Now that Ronald McDonald has officially removed himself from the running , that leaves the last two standing candidates as Brendan Fevola and Josh Bootsma...
Whenever your feeling down just jump on this thread and tell yourself it could be worse, I could follow Carlton

 

[master bate]

Was Ross really scared of the process?

Carlton have clearly been keen on him for a while and done their background checks. I think they could've run some form of process whilst still keeping Ross on track that it was his job to lose.

I reckon it's Clarko and Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

being in the running that's the real reason he's been spooked.

 

[La Dispute]

I don’t know mate, your club is the one that said it. You’re not saying they lied on the official club website are you?

I'd be very surprised if they ran an extensive review to hire Teague.

There was a lot of media and fan pressure to hire him. I'd imagine he would have been interviewed and that was it - which other candidates where sounded out and what kind of business case would Teague have delivered given he was appointed mid season?

The PR coming from the club is always going to imply some due diligence was taken in instating him, but I'm very skeptical, and the guys who formally appointed him (Liddle and Lloyd) were and are very green themselves and essentially also on training wheels in their positions.

 

[10571z]

I would love nothing more than Ross Lyon snagging a job and doing well right now

 

[fnerd]

Reckon Carlton dodged a bullet with Lyon pulling out of the coaching job. Mi

nope

Lyon dodged a bullet with Carlton.

This more like it

 

[La Dispute]

Of course you don’t put Ross Lyon through an exhaustive interview process - he has taken two teams with a long history of failure to Grand Finals and within a bees whisker of a flag. There are hundreds of players he coached and hundreds of staff he would have worked with you could speak to. If he’s not your man that’s fine, but as if he’s going to stake his credentials up against a newbie in a drawn out interview process being interviewed by people Carlton are potentially looking to turf out such as Lloyd and Liddell.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The club wanted to be consistent and expose any candidate to a proper review. Ross might have been a successful senior coach, but there's no guarantee he was the right fit for the CFC, and it's not as though he didn't have flaws himself. He left both St Kilda and Fremantle in poor circumstances, particularly the latter, and both clubs have had difficulty climbing the ladder after he'd finished up there.

I'm sure the club would be keen to hear more about his blueprint for success with this group, rather than just assume he'd produce similar results. I'm sure we could defer to players who'd played with him, but that's only a small part of the hiring process. The club would be acutely aware of who his supporters are and why they support him. He has contacts within the club, and has been an assistant himself.

Liddle and Lloyd are also very much under the microscope themselves, but while they've got their positions they need to be involved in the process. It wouldn't surprise me to see one or both leave prior to Christmas to take up positions elsewhere.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

You look at the Pies vs Carlton process … honestly it’s becoming obvious why we regularly contend in finals since the AFL was introduced in 1990.

Would love to hear Ross Lyons version

Such as?

Pies sack the coach.
Pies put a call in to Clarkson who declines
Pies put a call in to Lyon who declines
Pies put a call in to Pyke who declines
Pies put a call in to Scott who declines
Pies hire the best available assistant coach

vs

Carlton sack the coach.
Carlton put a call in to Clarkson who declines
Carlton put a call in to Lyon who declines
Carlton announce and commence a coaching selection process


Whilst I agree this is a terrible look for us and have been a vocal critic on our team board, I think the reaction in painting Collingwood as the textbook example of a coaching selection process is a bit OTT.

 

[fnerd]

Id say the whole process will get thrown out again if they can jag Clarkson.

Then watch all these so called “thorough process” blues fans back flip once more again!

 

[SpanishBrowne]

nope



This more like it

they both could do better

 

[Del28562]

The problem is the review was done to purely remove Teague, with Carlton aiming to get the best experienced coach. That mantra means that Carlton see themselves as finals lock next season. When you come out and say this headhunt clarko and Ross, then decide to change the goalposts and do a proper selection process, it's like Carlton don't know what they want. They will most likely end up with an inexperienced coach again, or a coach who hasn't made a grand final, how's that getting the best most experienced coach?

Unless they get Simpson home, clarko changes his mind, which is very doubtful with the circus happening. Their flip flop process, dealing of Teague has completely turned off any decent experienced coach.

They would have been better to actually help and support Teague by trying to bring out the findings of the review. The worst case is they find out that teagues no good after providing him support, then start a process to get clarko, or Teague makes finals next year and they find out he can coach.

I'd be very surprised if they ran an extensive review to hire Teague.

There was a lot of media and fan pressure to hire him. I'd imagine he would have been interviewed and that was it - which other candidates where sounded out and what kind of business case would Teague have delivered given he was appointed mid season?

The PR coming from the club is always going to imply some due diligence was taken in instating him, but I'm very skeptical, and the guys who formally appointed him (Liddle and Lloyd) were and are very green themselves and essentially also on training wheels in their positions.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Actually agreed with Eddie on FC when he basically said why is a process occurring for Ross when Carlton approached him first. Normally that'd indicate you want him as the main man if you're chasing him.

Just shows they still have a bunch of amateurs running that place, similar to when we made Sheedy go through a "process".

 

[pulpdriver]

Predictable. Wouldn't surprise me to see Clarkson backflip either. It will be unprecedented money for a coach.

I'd be astonished if he backflipped now. He had the job on a platter before and it would have already been for a significant sum and he turned it down. How much more would they be offering that it's now suddenly appealing? Plus I don't think it's a money decision for Clarko. He can have his paid vacation then choose to do whatever he wants in football after.

 

[JackFlash]

Too true. This entire nonsense about going through a "process" is all media BS and for some reason clubs feel the need to have to give this outward impression that its happening.

If Clarkson had said yes, do you think there would have been a "process" to follow still?

It's different from the real world of employment whereas you annoyingly spend hours crafting a flawless resume, only to have it thrown out by a robot because you omitted some vital keyword! Carlton knows who Ross Lyon is and what he brings to the table. He doesn't have to present anything other than himself.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Surely they just apologise and ask Teague to come back at this point.

 

[LeverPuller]

Seems notoriously hard to get experienced coaches to go through the process for any club.

Clarkson, Pyke, Buckley, Lyon and Macrae all out.

Voss, Scott, Graham, Harvey and Kingsley are the last ones standing.

I’d hate Kingsley to leave Richmond, but he would make a good coach that had strong support and protection from interfering influencers up the tree. Sadly I don’t think he would have that at Carlton. Lyon was perfect in that regard, and Scott would be as well.

Williams, Leppitsch.