When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[HairyO]

Guys, Teague was gone on performance by midyear, unless he utterly transformed the way we played.

We had no team defence and most teams cut us up and in the same manner.

So they know he is gone but wait until after the exit interviews?

Thry could at least have told him to say goodbye rather than critique the season of each player and discuss 2022 plans...

 

[zeggie]

So they know he is gone but wait until after the exit interviews?

Thry could at least have told him to say goodbye rather than critique the season of each player and discuss 2022 plans...

Barker was already goneski, if Teague was sacked early, there's literally nobody senior who could conduct exit interviews.

What's Sayers to do? Conduct the interviews himself?

"Hi mate, only met you once at a fundraiser, and had no involvement in your coaching and games this year, but here's my comprehensive opinion of your year anyway"

 

[Dan]

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Hired Teague while the season was still ongoing with no proper process for his appointment.

Undercut the list management team by giving Richmond fringe players tours of Princes Park.

Great sales guy, dud CEO.

Looking back he was correct

Brandon Ellis would have taken less to stay in melbourne at Carlton and has proven to be a good player and leader at GC and the position he plays wing is a area carlton needs to fill. Butler also was a no brainer with the trade required. Im sure most blues supporters would agree

Not sure if the teague appointment was his call and there are alot of other people at carlton that would have influenced that call (Sos & Judd specially)
I think the onfield issue's are more football dept than ceo related.

Anyway good luck hope it all pans out better going foward

 

[La Dispute]

Looking back he was correct

Brandon Ellis would have taken less to stay in melbourne at Carlton and has proven to be a good player and leader at GC and the position he plays wing is a area carlton needs to fill. Butler also was a no brainer with the trade required. Im sure most blues supporters would agree

Not sure if the teague appointment was his call and there are alot of other people at carlton that would have influenced that call (Sos & Judd specially)
I think the onfield issue's are more football dept than ceo related.

Anyway good luck hope it all pans out better going foward

Nah, Ellis is a bland player and would have been no better than someone like Newnes. I was keen on Butler at the time, but he's also gone backwards this year. Would have been a decent acquisition, not a huge loss though.

Judd was definitely not pro-Teague, SOS also had issues which partly culminated in his sacking. Not sure what their relationship was like at the time, but SOS wasn't ever on the board (he was LM at the time) and had no influence on Teague's appointment.

 

[Belnakor]

If Ross couldn't handle a comprehensive process, which involved some extensive reviews and discussions beyond his capability as a senior coach then he was never the right candidate in the first place.

Your hit list was publicly listed as Clarkson then Lyon. Neither of those guys was going to sit through that kind of process. If you wanted an experienced coach with finals experience (also previously announced by Sayers) than that kind of process wasn't going to happen.

So you are essentially creating some kind of ridiculous scenario where you have highly credentialled coaches working through an 8-week process competing with assistant coaches who have never coached.. you are in the same fantasy land as your board if you think that is going to happen.

 

[Belnakor]

If Ross couldn't handle a comprehensive process, which involved some extensive reviews and discussions beyond his capability as a senior coach then he was never the right candidate in the first place.

Ross seemed to entertain the process when it was essentially a due dillgence. They are talking to him directly, working through if they think he is a good fit.

the moment you guys announced it was going to be some kind of meat market where there would be numerous people going through the "process" he pulled out.

 

[La Dispute]

Your hit list was publicly listed as Clarkson then Lyon. Neither of those guys was going to sit through that kind of process. If you wanted an experienced coach with finals experience (also previously announced by Sayers) than that kind of process wasn't going to happen.

So you are essentially creating some kind of ridiculous scenario where you have highly credentialled coaches working through an 8-week process competing with assistant coaches who have never coached.. you are in the same fantasy land as your board if you think that is going to happen.

And if they didn't want to sit through a proper process, which is essentially the hallmark of any good business worldwide why would we want them? We can seek the best available, but if they don't fit in and don't have any real vision for their tenure at the club why would we want them?

If you don't have a position and you want the role at some stage you have to do some work to actually own the position.

Much rather a 100% committed rookie coach than a 50% committed experienced candidate.

 

[JimmyBC]

And if they didn't want to sit through a proper process, which is essentially the hallmark of any good business worldwide why would we want them? We can seek the best available, but if they don't fit in and don't have any real vision for their tenure at the club why would we want them?

If you don't have a position and you want the role at some stage you have to do some work to actually own the position.

Much rather a 100% committed rookie coach than a 50% committed experienced candidate.

As if they'd put Clarkson through any more than a general chat over a coffee if he signalled interest.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

As if they'd put Clarkson through any more than a general chat over a coffee if he signalled interest.

With the way Hawthorn's last 3-4 years have gone, the rumblings of fallouts and blowups in the Barossa Hub last year that saw Wright bail, the continual topping up strategy that failed, the bottom 2 placing this year before finally making changes to the gameplan at the bye(3rd time in the last 5 years this has happened) and the worst 1st quarter team in the league by a large margin ......they really should ask some questions of Clarko before they sing him up for 7 years, but it's sounding more and more like they would happily just hand over the $1.5mill a season to coax him off the couch and think they've found their messiah.

 

[tonygeeks]

WTF …. asking the Pies for advice on picking a coach ?

Just bloody weird

How hard is it , do some interviews and pick the best bloke

Perception is king and any advantage you might get is diluted x10 by looking completely useless

Surely it could not be true


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[zeggie]

WTF …. asking the Pies for advice on picking a coach ?

Just bloody weird

How hard is it , do some interviews and pick the best bloke

Perception is king and any advantage you might get is diluted x10 by looking completely useless

Surely it could not be true


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It's not true. The only contact would be LLoyd interviewing at the Pies for the List Manager job. Maybe a discussion occurred due to both teams, at the time, were in the hunt for a new senior coach. Certainly wasn't asking advice and Lloyd doesn't represent the panel nor the board.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Current favourite for the role?

 

[Bjchan13]

Current favourite for the role?

Cook/Clarkson ceo/coach combo

 

[EasternTiger]

Rocket Eade.

 

[tonygeeks]

It's not true. The only contact would be LLoyd interviewing at the Pies for the List Manager job. Maybe a discussion occurred due to both teams, at the time, were in the hunt for a new senior coach. Certainly wasn't asking advice and Lloyd doesn't represent the panel nor the board.

Couldn’t be

It seems like you blokes have got too far into the weeds on this

It’s just picking a coach

Same as the other 500 clubs who’ve done it


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[Noidnadroj]

That’d be the quickest coach appointment in league history.

Ross was happy to have the chat when he knew he was one of our preferred candidates, but cracked the sads when we he made him follow the due process to elect the head coach.

We dodged a major bullet here.

Or maybe he realised the coaching selection panel deciding on his fate comprised a CEO whose job was under threat (now sacked) and another who he and a falling out with at Freo (Lloyd). And another who I believe has a class action in place relating to brain trauma. Do you really think Lyon was going to let these clowns and people who’ve admitted brains damage decide his fate?


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[La Dispute]

Or maybe he realised the coaching selection panel deciding on his fate comprised a CEO whose job was under threat (now sacked) and another who he and a falling out with at Freo (Lloyd). And another who I believe has a class action in place relating to brain trauma. Do you really think Lyon was going to let these clowns and people who’ve admitted brains damage decide his fate?


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I think my explanation is a lot more likely.

The club also has a big Carlton Respects agenda, and understandably he'd have to front up to that group to provide some mitigation for his past indiscretions and didn't to go through that process again. Reckon the Lloyd beef is likely, and part of it too.

On the whole reckon it was a number of different things and the club and Ross were not a good fit for each other, and both parties worked this out pretty quickly.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Rocket Eade.

Mick Malthouse for the lols

 

[Noidnadroj]

I've addressed this a number of times in this thread.

You're not just selecting the best most credentialed coach, you're appointing a guy who is going to best fit in with your club and who is going to work best with your squad - there's no use just selecting the guy at the top of a hypothetical list. At that point you're just ticking boxes, and that is the exact kind of thinking that got Mick Malthouse hired to the Carlton Football Club.

It's not as though Ross didn't have question marks on him either. Still 0 premierships from 4 attempts, he also left both his former clubs in disarrayed and harassed a female member of staff at Freo. Pretty obvious why he needed some serious background work.

If Ross couldn't handle a comprehensive process, which involved some extensive reviews and discussions beyond his capability as a senior coach then he was never the right candidate in the first place.

So if they get Clarko - hasn’t won a final for 6-years or made finals for 3 - without due process will you be cheering? If so, on what grounds given what you’ve just said there?


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[Kreuuuzeurns]

So if they get Clarko - hasn’t won a final for 6-years or made finals for 3 - without due process will you be cheering? If so, on what grounds given what you’ve just said there?


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Are you saying you don’t think Clarkson would be the best acquisition for Carlton as it stands?

 

[Noidnadroj]

Are you saying you don’t think Clarkson would be the best acquisition for Carlton as it stands?

Not if it requires $12m and a 6-year deal….. I wouldn’t go anywhere near that level of commitment with soft cap restrictions.

But my reply was more in response to InDispute praising their requirements for Lyon to go through the process given his recent history. And bemoaning the fact they didn’t do that with Malthouse (a flag and runners up in his last 2 years of coaching).

So Clarko has a far far worse recent coaching record than Malthouse, has not made finals
for 3 years or won a final for 6, has made some
very poor list management decisions over 5-years…. so just wondering if there will be praise of they get Clarko with zero process (as they did with Malthouse) or condemnation for not putting Clarko through the ‘process’…?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… nothing I’ve seen from Clarko or the Hawks from 2016 onwards and the last 3-years in particular would inspire me to hand out any sort of Godfather offer without giving due consideration to the new breed of Yze, Gia, Kingsley etc….

They did that with Malthouse (at end of 2011 the unanimous best 1 or 2 coaches in the AFL) and now Carlton supporters say ‘what a stupid mistake that was’. But for some reason it seems without any question Clarko is different despite results not even close to Malthouse’s last 2 seasons. I’m not sure why…??


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[La Dispute]

Not if it requires $12m and a 6-year deal….. I wouldn’t go anywhere near that level of commitment with soft cap restrictions.

But my reply was more in response to InDispute praising their requirements for Lyon to go through the process given his recent history. And bemoaning the fact they didn’t do that with Malthouse (a flag and runners up in his last 2 years of coaching).

So Clarko has a far far worse recent coaching record than Malthouse, has not made finals
for 3 years or won a final for 6, has made some
very poor list management decisions over 5-years…. so just wondering if there will be praise of they get Clarko with zero process (as they did with Malthouse) or condemnation for not putting Clarko through the ‘process’…?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… nothing I’ve seen from Clarko or the Hawks from 2016 onwards and the last 3-years in particular would inspire me to hand out any sort of Godfather offer without giving due consideration to the new breed of Yze, Gia, Kingsley etc….

They did that with Malthouse (at end of 2011 the unanimous best 1 or 2 coaches in the AFL) and now Carlton supporters say ‘what a stupid mistake that was’. But for some reason it seems without any question Clarko is different despite results not even close to Malthouse’s last 2 seasons. I’m not sure why…??


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Agree with all of this, and that is exactly why I’d want Clarko to undergo the same process we were requesting Ross undertake.

It might just work out that Pyke or Scott fit in better with what we’d expect. I’d just about take Pyke over Clarko in some ways.

I’m open-minded about bringing a first time coach if they’re deemed the best candidate available, but the club has indicated they’d prefer an experienced senior coach.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Not if it requires $12m and a 6-year deal….. I wouldn’t go anywhere near that level of commitment with soft cap restrictions.

But my reply was more in response to InDispute praising their requirements for Lyon to go through the process given his recent history. And bemoaning the fact they didn’t do that with Malthouse (a flag and runners up in his last 2 years of coaching).

So Clarko has a far far worse recent coaching record than Malthouse, has not made finals
for 3 years or won a final for 6, has made some
very poor list management decisions over 5-years…. so just wondering if there will be praise of they get Clarko with zero process (as they did with Malthouse) or condemnation for not putting Clarko through the ‘process’…?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… nothing I’ve seen from Clarko or the Hawks from 2016 onwards and the last 3-years in particular would inspire me to hand out any sort of Godfather offer without giving due consideration to the new breed of Yze, Gia, Kingsley etc….

They did that with Malthouse (at end of 2011 the unanimous best 1 or 2 coaches in the AFL) and now Carlton supporters say ‘what a stupid mistake that was’. But for some reason it seems without any question Clarko is different despite results not even close to Malthouse’s last 2 seasons. I’m not sure why…??


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He hasn’t even signed and yet the mental gymnastics have already begun.

We’ll never get it right.

Who do you think should coach the Carlton football club?

 

[Noidnadroj]

He hasn’t even signed and yet the mental gymnastics have already begun.

We’ll never get it right.

Who do you think should coach the Carlton football club?

I don’t care. Just interested if you Blue fans want a 6-week process or not?


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